[och]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Is there a quick hack for those of us with automatic transmission that allows for shifting into drive out of neutral while stationary without applying brake? I have this habit of shifting the car into neutral while waiting at red lights, etc - and most cars with automatic transmission let you shift right back into drive, but BMW wont shift until brake is applied. I'm thinking there's got to be a way around it, especially that it does let you shift from D to N and back to D while the car is in motion.

[alexc93]

Quick answer is likely no as I imagine it has something to do with the torque converters etc etc and safety reasons that bmw doesnt allow this.

[och]

Originally Posted by alexc93

Quick answer is likely no as I imagine it has something to do with the torque converters etc etc and safety reasons that bmw doesnt allow this.

I'm pretty sure there's a way to do since it shifts the car is rolling. The lockout is only when the car is at full stop.

[alexc93]

Originally Posted by och

I'm pretty sure there's a way to do since it shifts the car is rolling. The lockout is only when the car is at full stop.

Thats exactly why you can't do it when the car is at a full stop, and why you can when the car is rolling. As when you are rolling the torque converter is still moving, when you are stopped it is not. It would be almost like slamming a car into gear if doing it from a stop...thats not good for the transmission or any of its components. Theres a reason BMW program the transmission this way.

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by alexc93

Thats exactly why you can't do it when the car is at a full stop, and why you can when the car is rolling. As when you are rolling the torque converter is still moving, when you are stopped it is not. It would be almost like slamming a car into gear if doing it from a stop...thats not good for the transmission or any of its components. Theres a reason BMW program the transmission this way.

That makes no sense. If being stopped while shifting into gear is a problem for the transmission, how does being on the brake help anything? You are still stopped.

It's most likely programmed that way to keep BMW from being sued if someone accidentally bumps the gearshift while in neutral, setting the car in motion unexpectedly.

[alexc93]

Originally Posted by scrape1

That makes no sense. If being stopped while shifting into gear is a problem for the transmission, how does being on the brake help anything? You are still stopped.

It's most likely programmed that way to keep BMW from being sued if someone accidentally bumps the gearshift while in neutral, setting the car in motion unexpectedly.

It's most likely a factor of both.

It absolutely makes sense, like I said I'm not an engineer but if you look up how torque vectoring works it will make more sense what i'm trying to say about how it has to be eased into gear and cant just be slammed into gear.

The exact same way it is really bad for a transmission to be slammed into park while you are still rolling, just opposite if that makes sense.

Any engineers that can chime in and explain what i'm trying to say would be great.

[och]

Most any other car with automatic transmission will let you shift from neutral to drive without stepping on the brake. Its just the way its programmed in BMW's with electronic shifters.

In fact, when I had a 2010 335, it also had an auto, but the shifter was not electronic, it had a mechanical link - but it also wouldn't allow for shifting from neutral to drive when the car was stopped without pressing brake. But it actually had a hard stopper in the shifter, where you physically coudln't move the shifter without pressing brake.

[scrape1]

Originally Posted by alexc93

It's most likely a factor of both.

It absolutely makes sense, like I said I'm not an engineer but if you look up how torque vectoring works it will make more sense what i'm trying to say about how it has to be eased into gear and cant just be slammed into gear.

The exact same way it is really bad for a transmission to be slammed into park while you are still rolling, just opposite if that makes sense.

Any engineers that can chime in and explain what i'm trying to say would be great.

Torque vectoring? What?

The whole idea behind a torque converter is that unless the lock up clutch is engaged, which it wouldn't be at idle, the input shaft can turn freely no matter what the wheels are doing.

I asked a simple question. How does applying the brakes make any difference whatsoever to the transmission versus simply being stationary?

[The Ching]

Why would you want to shift from N to D without having to step on the brakes? Just curious.

[akuan99]

I believe it was designed for safety issue.
It was prompted by the infamous Audi 5000 car unintended acceleration.
You can read about this here http://www.autosafety.org/audi-sudden-acceleration

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by scrape1

It's most likely programmed that way to keep BMW from being sued if someone accidentally bumps the gearshift while in neutral, setting the car in motion unexpectedly.

^This.

Originally Posted by akuan99

I believe it was designed for safety issue.
It was prompted by the infamous Audi 5000 car unintended acceleration.
You can read about this here http://www.autosafety.org/audi-sudden-acceleration

Exactly. After a number of incidents of people nailing someone to a wall by flooring the gas coming out of park or neutral instead of pressing on the brake, the shift lock function was implemented.

[alexc93]

Originally Posted by scrape1

Torque vectoring? What?

The whole idea behind a torque converter is that unless the lock up clutch is engaged, which it wouldn't be at idle, the input shaft can turn freely no matter what the wheels are doing.

I asked a simple question. How does applying the brakes make any difference whatsoever to the transmission versus simply being stationary?

You did ask a simple question and i'm saying the answer is probably not as simple as you'd think or like.

By applying the brakes and easing off them, i'm sure its easier on certain parts of the transmission than it being slammed into gear? theres no way it isnt.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by alexc93

By applying the brakes and easing off them, i'm sure its easier on certain parts of the transmission than it being slammed into gear? theres no way it isnt.

While I agree with the summation that needing to shift into neutral and back without having the foot on the brake is lazy and a safety precaution, doing it at idle has no difference whether or not the brake is pressed.

The torque converter is moving regardless, and the car is going to be asked to select the gear electronically which doesn't matter if the brakes are applied, the engine is moving at the same speed.

Now if you come from the 16 year old days of being a bad driver when "Neutral dropping" was a thing (revving the engine in neutral then dropping it into low gear to do a burnout) then yes, that is terrible for the transmission because you're putting a very high rev & torque load into the torque converter and drive line.

Either way, shifting into neutral seems completely pointless unless your foot is so lazy that holding light pressure on the brakes is a problem.

[opfreak]

stop shifting into neutral

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by och

I have this habit of shifting the car into neutral while waiting at red lights, etc -

Why?

[racerx5]

Automatic tunnel car washes are at issue with these vehicles. However, you can lightly touch the brake and shift into Drive without stopping.

[Ron Jeffries]

It's a safety feature to keep you from running into people from a stop. I think it's now legally mandated, but not sure. The transmission is designed to do the right thing at a stop: I can see no advantage to trying to outsmart it.

[dopefishz]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Why?

It's a habit from driving a manual, having to keep your foot on the brake at a red light is annoying.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by dopefishz

It's a habit from driving a manual, having to keep your foot on the brake at a red light is annoying.

I go back and forth from my manual 2 Series to my automatic 3 Series on different days of the week and this never has occurred to me. I guess my annoyance tolerance is set differently. I don't see any other solution for this concern. BTW, unless you are on a level surface street, does your manual vehicle out of gear not tend to roll forward/backward without some degree of brake pedal pressure?

[Liandri]

Like previously said, it's there for liability reasons. The vast majority of the population are not capable of piloting anything without tons of safeties and nannies in place. BMW is on the more lenient side, most manufacturers don't even let you hold an (auto) gear in manual mode to redline for example, but bmw does. Some manufacturers don't let you defeat stability control and I've had a couple fords up on the lift where I couldn't defeat traction control to spin the wheels up to check for bad wheel bearings.

I would also like this disabled, and there are many other things I'd like changed such as starting the car in any mode other than comfort, which seems to be very ingrained into the DME. xHP would probably be one of the very few people with the ability to change settings like this assuming the TCU is solely responsible for it, but likely the TCU and DME both talk back and forth so it may not be as simple as getting deep into one module. And if you did email xHP asking about it, they would certainly not help for the same reason (legal liability).

To address the misinformation, the torque converter is only there to prevent the engine from stalling when coming to a stop (and on the flip side the means to take off). Just like a clutch in a manual. ZF employs a maximum lockup strategy that gives the excellent direct feel when in gear/manual mode. I'm not sure the converter unlocks at all until you come back to a stop (stall speed)

Tldr- crack the complex encryption on the TCU, learn German, gain a background in programming to interpret all you see and then you might be able to change it

[TrboMike]

I've had a 2020 330ix as a Loaner for 4 weeks. There is a button by the shifter that says PHOLD. I put it on but didnt notice anything. Looked it up online, and everytime you come to a full stop, it will hold the parking brake until you hit the gas.

At first I thought it was a dumb feature, but then I stopped at a LONG red light on a steep hill. PHold. I came to a train track right as the gate was coming down. PHold.

Now I see why the OP wants to not hold his foot on the brake every time. Tho it does take some getting used to there is that quarter of a second between the gas going down and the brake releasing.

I want to get out of the car and see if it keeps the brake lights on, I'm sure the lawyers made sure the brake lights stay on during PHold.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by TrboMike

I've had a 2020 330ix as a Loaner for 4 weeks. There is a button by the shifter that says PHOLD. I put it on but didnt notice anything. Looked it up online, and everytime you come to a full stop, it will hold the parking brake until you hit the gas.

At first I thought it was a dumb feature, but then I stopped at a LONG red light on a steep hill. PHold. I came to a train track right as the gate was coming down. PHold.

Now I see why the OP wants to not hold his foot on the brake every time. Tho it does take some getting used to there is that quarter of a second between the gas going down and the brake releasing.

I want to get out of the car and see if it keeps the brake lights on, I'm sure the lawyers made sure the brake lights stay on during PHold.

I wouldn’t be so sure the brake lights will be on. In the UK, many if not most people with manual transmission cars are taught to set the handbrake every time they come to a stop for more than a few seconds or on a hill (automatic driving test failure if you roll back at all on a hill start) so there are many cars waiting at traffic lights and other intersections with no brake lights on, just the parking brake. Nobody has an issue of not seeing brake lights on on a stopped car.

Our Golf R has the parking brake hold feature here in Canada, no rear brake lights are on with the foot off the brake while at rest.