[Maynard]

When I was shopping these at first, I did not know that the seats adjust down as well as fore-aft, and they had the demo set for a midget. I think there is almost 4" of adjustment. If the salesman hadn't known about this to lower it, i'd have never even taken a test drive. If you were also unaware of this you may want to return and try again to be sure the moonroof car you tried out was fully down. And now i'm wondering how rare my slicktop 228 is (and a little bummed that I'll be able to drop into a slicktop 235 if I want to move into more power). You can also swap in headrests from an earlier 3 series for better helmet clearance.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by Chuckable

Greetings, everyone! New to forum after doing a BMW drive experience at PBIR a while ago, and with the bad influence of a friend with a highly modded 328.

The most fun car I drove at the track event was the M2. It's a bit more than I want to spend so I'm looking at the M235 and M240.

The problem is headroom is a bit short, and a no-go with a helmet on any sunroof-equipped car.

So, is there anyone in the Atlanta-ish area with a sunroof delete ("slicktop") car that I can sit in?

I'd be happy to meet you at your convenience in a public place, buy you coffee or a quick meal for the hospitality, and would wear a mask given the pandemic. Thanks!

dont the m2's come standard with no sunroof? might have an easier go locating an m2 without and judging that way as the interiors are similarly sized.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Maynard

the seats adjust down as well as fore-aft...I think there is almost 4" of adjustment.

That's important to know. I'm 5'11" and IIRC my helmet (see below) didn't fit unless I first lowered the chair all the way.

I normally prefer a pretty upright seat back but had to recline it a bit so that I'd have an inch or so of room above the helmet's air inlet port. I got used to that seat back position and have been driving the car that way ever since.

[Maynard]

I think that is referred to as the gangsta lean?

[PeanuKeeyes]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I have a no moonroof M235. I'm 6' 2" with long legs. I have about 3.5" between my head and the roof.

Unless you're ordering an M240, finding one of these cars without a moonroof will be difficult. I have a buddy that works for BMW. For the hell of it, we checked to see how non moonroof M235s and M240s had been ordered in the US (2015 to 2018). There were 17 M235s and 5 M240s. My M235 6mt is one of 8 M235s ordered in the US without a moonroof.

If you want a hardtop, an N55 M2 is your best bet.

If you think of it, I’d love to know how many 228i 6 speed slick tops were ordered! No power seats, HK or sat nav either. I feel like mine’s gotta be one of three or something.

[damianbmw12]

I owned an E46 and hated the headroom with moonroof. I did my own delete but that's when I gutted it. Anyhow, I ordered my M240 with delete and it was mistakenly ordered with moonroof. Upon arrival of the car I went straight to the dealer with my helmet. To my surprise I fit very well. I would say the e46 had 2" less headroom. You have to be pretty tall to hit in the M240. Heck my hair hits in my daily E46

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I think that is referred to as the gangsta lean?

Oh no, sir! In fact, for a street car I'd say it's still somewhat on the side of being more upright than not.

I had my race car's chair set so that the set back was strongly biased to an upright position, but one where I could still crank my head up and back the small amount necessary to, for example, look up the steep inclines at a track like the Glen.

In the beginning, I thought I might need to change out the headrest in my M240 as it's been described on this forum, but that didn't turn out to be necessary. Different bodies will require different solutions, of course.

Originally Posted by PeanuKeeyes

I feel like mine’s gotta be one of three or something.

In that case, you can with substantial justification use the word 'Rare' in your listing when you sell it.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

For the hell of it, we checked to see how non moonroof M235s and M240s had been ordered in the US (2015 to 2018). There were 17 M235s and 5 M240s.

What?!? I don't believe it. With all the chatter I've seen in this forum, you guys have had me feeling guilty for ordering my car with a sun roof (which I love, BTW). I figured I was one of 5 M240's ordered WITH a sunroof, not the other way around!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by harma24

What?!? I don't believe it. With all the chatter I've seen in this forum, you guys have had me feeling guilty for ordering my car with a sun roof (which I love, BTW). I figured I was one of 5 M240's ordered WITH a sunroof, not the other way around!

Hey, I like the idea of having a car produced at the rate of 1.25 units/year. Don't worry about it!

On a more serious note, what do you imagine the results would be if Americans were polled on this question "Do cars and SUVs come without sunroofs?" I'm guessing most would be stunned into silence, and most of those wouldn't be able to choose between 'Yes' and 'No', figuring that it had to be a trick question. Just thinking out loud here, mind you.

[Chuckable]

Originally Posted by Maynard

When I was shopping these at first, I did not know that the seats adjust down as well as fore-aft, and they had the demo set for a midget. I think there is almost 4" of adjustment. If the salesman hadn't known about this to lower it, i'd have never even taken a test drive. If you were also unaware of this you may want to return and try again to be sure the moonroof car you tried out was fully down. And now i'm wondering how rare my slicktop 228 is (and a little bummed that I'll be able to drop into a slicktop 235 if I want to move into more power). You can also swap in headrests from an earlier 3 series for better helmet clearance.

That is a great observation, thank you. I was surprised at how much adjustment there was, but even as low as it would go I'd have to lean the seat back uncomfortably to make it work.

[Chuckable]

Originally Posted by perryair

dont the m2's come standard with no sunroof? might have an easier go locating an m2 without and judging that way as the interiors are similarly sized.

I'm still learning the platform, but I believe the first years had the sunroof as optional. But, aren't the seats different on the M2 versus the "regular" 2-series?

[Chuckable]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread so far. I really had no idea how rare the sunroof delete was, and to have such a relatively high percentage of those owners participate is amazing.

From what I've read here so far, it seems very likely that I would be able to fit without a problem. But, on the off chance that there happens to be one of the very few owners nearby, I'd greatly appreciate the opportunity to see and sit in your car.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by Chuckable

I'm still learning the platform, but I believe the first years had the sunroof as optional. But, aren't the seats different on the M2 versus the "regular" 2-series?

i believe the seats are different but i cant imagine that for headroom measurement purposes that they would make much of a difference. though i have the feeling you'd fit fine in the non sunroofed according to all the other input.

[Chuckable]

Originally Posted by perryair

i believe the seats are different but i cant imagine that for headroom measurement purposes that they would make much of a difference. though i have the feeling you'd fit fine in the non sunroofed according to all the other input.

I tend to agree with you. Thank you.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I have a no moonroof M235. I'm 6' 2" with long legs. I have about 3.5" between my head and the roof.

Unless you're ordering an M240, finding one of these cars without a moonroof will be difficult. I have a buddy that works for BMW. For the hell of it, we checked to see how non moonroof M235s and M240s had been ordered in the US (2015 to 2018). There were 17 M235s and 5 M240s. My M235 6mt is one of 8 M235s ordered in the US without a moonroof.

Wow. I'm shocked at these numbers and would have guessed substantially more. I wonder if these numbers include Euro delivery U.S. spec cars? My 2015 m235i moonroof delete was ED.

But, yeah, if these numbers are real, then a not insignificant share of the deleters are on this forum... posting in this thread.

I'm not tall (around 5'9") but I deleted for two reasons: (1) aesthetics. The big one. My car is alpine white. And I love how the solid white roof looks without the blemish of the moonroof. With a black car, this would be less of an issue. (2) avoidance of rattles/cracks/leaks.

[Chuckable]

I was extremely surprised at the numbers too, and took a look at AutoTrader to see what I could find.

A nationwide search of 2017-2018 M240s (haven't searched for M235s yet) yielded about 56 results, and of them 4 were sunroof delete as best as I could tell from looking at pictures of every car.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Wow. I'm shocked at these numbers and would have guessed substantially more. I wonder if these numbers include Euro delivery U.S. spec cars? My 2015 m235i moonroof delete was ED.

But, yeah, if these numbers are real, then a not insignificant share of the deleters are on this forum... posting in this thread.

I'm not tall (around 5'9") but I deleted for two reasons: (1) aesthetics. The big one. My car is alpine white. And I love how the solid white roof looks without the blemish of the moonroof. With a black car, this would be less of an issue. (2) avoidance of rattles/cracks/leaks.

I too was surprised by the numbers, but I don't put a ton of faith in them either and he did the check nearly 3 years ago. He could have been using the tracking system wrong. I have a hard time seeing BMW making it the delete an option if the take rate is ridiculously low.

What I do know is:

1) My M235 is the only slick top I've personally seen in the past 4.5 years.

2) I was asked to put a $2K nonrefundable deposit down when ordering because the dealer manager said no one would ever want a 6MT slicktop without nav. I could saved thousands buying a dealer optioned 8AT with a moonroof and nav off the lot, but I wanted the lightest M235 I could find and one ordered to my specs. My M235 is about 120lbs lighter than an 8AT moonroof equipped RWD M235. The moonroof assembly weights about 30lbs.

3) Nearly every M235 and M240 ordered by a dealer has a moonroof as it's standard on the US spec M235/240. The delete option gives you no money back and most people expect a car like this to have it.

4) When my car arrived, I had 4 salesmen say they had no idea that the car could be ordered without a moonroof and why would I do that?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Chuckable

I was extremely surprised at the numbers too, and took a look at AutoTrader to see what I could find.

A nationwide search of 2017-2018 M240s (haven't searched for M235s yet) yielded about 56 results, and of them 4 were sunroof delete as best as I could tell from looking at pictures of every car.

Are you just looking at pictures or does it specifically say no moonroof? I can't figure out a way to search for a slicktop M235/M240 on either autotrader or cars.com. A lot of the ones I'm seeing on those sites don't look like they have moonroofs, but as you look closer, they do. The moonroof assembly blends very well into the body, especially on darker cars, and it's hard to see unless they take a pic from a higher angle or of the moonroof itself.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by Chuckable

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread so far. I really had no idea how rare the sunroof delete was, and to have such a relatively high percentage of those owners participate is amazing.

From what I've read here so far, it seems very likely that I would be able to fit without a problem. But, on the off chance that there happens to be one of the very few owners nearby, I'd greatly appreciate the opportunity to see and sit in your car.

It is also possible to find some helmets that have lower top domes - IIRC somebody on here noted that they gained almost an inch when they switched from a cheap open face to a better full face model.

And as far as those online ads, I find that they often get the transmission type wrong, so I doubt you could trust them about sunroofs w/o checking pics. Kudos for dong the internet 'legwork'.

[Chuckable]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Are you just looking at pictures or does it specifically say no moonroof? I can't figure out a way to search for a slicktop M235/M240 on either autotrader or cars.com. A lot of the ones I'm seeing on those sites don't look like they have moonroofs, but as you look closer, they do. The moonroof assembly blends very well into the body, especially on darker cars, and it's hard to see unless they take a pic from a higher angle or of the moonroof itself.

You're right. I've found it nearly impossible to search for sunroof delete, and so resorted to looking at the pictures. Admittedly, I could have misidentified some, but I'm pretty sure that those 4 I found are sunroof delete models.

[Chuckable]

Originally Posted by Maynard

It is also possible to find some helmets that have lower top domes - IIRC somebody on here noted that they gained almost an inch when they switched from a cheap open face to a better full face model.

And as far as those online ads, I find that they often get the transmission type wrong, so I doubt you could trust them about sunroofs w/o checking pics. Kudos for dong the internet 'legwork'.

Yes, you are correct. Half the time the transmission type is incorrect, and there are other errors. So, the only way to really check is to click through the pictures.

A lower profile helmet is also a good idea, but the sunroof delete is also desirable for other reasons as well. At least to me.

[Chuckable]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I too was surprised by the numbers, but I don't put a ton of faith in them either and he did the check nearly 3 years ago. He could have been using the tracking system wrong. I have a hard time seeing BMW making it the delete an option if the take rate is ridiculously low.

What I do know is:

1) My M235 is the only slick top I've personally seen in the past 4.5 years.

2) I was asked to put a $2K nonrefundable deposit down when ordering because the dealer manager said no one would ever want a 6MT slicktop without nav. I could saved thousands buying a dealer optioned 8AT with a moonroof and nav off the lot, but I wanted the lightest M235 I could find and one ordered to my specs. My M235 is about 120lbs lighter than an 8AT moonroof equipped RWD M235. The moonroof assembly weights about 30lbs.

3) Nearly every M235 and M240 ordered by a dealer has a moonroof as it's standard on the US spec M235/240. The delete option gives you no money back and most people expect a car like this to have it.

4) When my car arrived, I had 4 salesmen say they had no idea that the car could be ordered without a moonroof and why would I do that?

With all the effort you put into getting that specific trim, I genuinely hope when you do sell it goes to someone who truly appreciates it!