[Caltexan]

I responded to a post on a different thread but thought I might ask here too. I'm currently trying to spec an order for a new M240i and wrestling with wheel and tire selection.

My concern is I live in North Texas. While those not from here might think of all of Texas as hot and dry, it's not. Spring in particular is wet here. VERY WET. We get our share of thunderstorm driven heavy rain at other times of the year too. And our winters here are short but get cold. I'm not worried about sleet and ice since I won't be driving when we get sleet and ice (real snow is rare in DFW, sleet and ice more common).

But a typical DFW winter will have a week or two of temperatures that barely get above freezing, let alone 40F. Not much precip (unless it's icy in which case I won't take the car out), but cold.

I hate to give up some of the performance of my new car by opting for all weather tires but am I going to have to in order to have decent traction and hydroplaning resistance in extremely rainy Texas spring weather?

[Sportstick]

Below 45 F, it is ill-advised to have summer tires. The OEM tires BMW uses on the Track Handling Package, for example, are Michelin summer only performance tires. Michelin specifically excludes compound cracking tire failure for such use. My dealer even had me sign a disclaimer acknowledging that I knew that the traction loss at those temperatures rendered the car much less safe to drive. You could use summer tires if you change to some really good All Seasons fornthe kind of winter you describe, such as Pilot Sport AS 3+ or Conti DWS 06.

[Caltexan]

Interesting. If I understand the ordering guide correctly, the summer tires installed at the factory on a 230i with Track Handling Package are the same tires as would come on an M240i?

I know the cold temps are a concern but even more so is the amount of rain we get in the spring.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Caltexan

Interesting. If I understand the ordering guide correctly, the summer tires installed at the factory on a 230i with Track Handling Package are the same tires as would come on an M240i?

I know the cold temps are a concern but even more so is the amount of rain we get in the spring.

It would help for you to read the tests and ratings on Tire Rack. Summer tires are not inherently ineffective in the wet. The all season aspect is primarily a compound design to function across a wider range of temperatures. Also keep in mind, hydroplaning is a function of speed, with a general rule of thumb of a max safe speed roughly 10 x the square root of the tire pressure for a competent tire.

[Caltexan]

Do you happen to know what specific all weather run flats are installed at the factory these days?

[Sportstick]

I’m sorry I do not, but plants usually have more than one tire supplier sourced, so for these high volume tires, one can’t always be assured of a specific brand. OTOH, where they specify a particular high performance tire, such as on the Track Package, that is the only tire used. OEM tires below specific high performance models are usually mediocre.

[MassNerd]

I think the cold weather limitations of the stock summer tires is overstated. I've driven my MPSS tires on 32F mornings and yes there is less grip, but its not as if the tires become instantly useless below 45F.

At 32F, the M240i with MPSS still had loads more grip than our Prius with its 195 width snow tires. Just don't drive the car flat out and be aware there will be less grip.

However, at those temperatures, any precipitation is going to fall as snow and that is a big no-no with summer tires.

[Sportstick]

^I understand the desire to make it work. However, get to know some Michelin tech reps and chat with them about this. They don’t implement temperature-based warranty exclusions without real data.

[aerobod]

I’ve had no cracking issues running MPSS down to -5C (23F) on cold autumn mornings before putting the winter tyres on, Just have to be aware of grip levels being less, but not terrible. I have also stored them for several years down to -25C (-13F) without any cracking issues. Grip levels at the freezing point aren’t too much less than an all-season tyre and they still clear water quite well.

Also haven’t had any problems with RE-71R extreme performance tyres in similar use and storage. The only tyres that stay in a warm place in the winter and never get used on any car below 5C are the Hoosier slicks that I have.

[Sportstick]

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.FhEnHoIfSLE

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.FhEnHoIfSLE

Looks like GM is indicating cracking is only an issue when using high performance summer tyres below 20F (-7C).

[Sportstick]

The issue can vary, but the point of the Google search link was just to show it exists widely. Michelin has their own specific requirements and it seems reasonable to me to benefit from their knowledge and experience from developing their own product.

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I’ve had no cracking issues running MPSS down to -5C (23F) on cold autumn mornings before putting the winter tyres on, Just have to be aware of grip levels being less, but not terrible. I have also stored them for several years down to -25C (-13F) without any cracking issues. Grip levels at the freezing point aren’t too much less than an all-season tyre and they still clear water quite well.

Also haven’t had any problems with RE-71R extreme performance tyres in similar use and storage. The only tyres that stay in a warm place in the winter and never get used on any car below 5C are the Hoosier slicks that I have.

You're pushing your luck at 23 degrees on Super Sports. I'm putting ~ 440 to the wheels and traction is a joke under 40-45. Even when I was stock, it was dicey.

[TajoMan]

Michelin states the summer tire must be 'warmed up to 40F' if it was exposed the temp below 20F, due to possible cracking.

They clearly stated "do not deform the tire at or below 20F". No word about above 20F.
(except degraded performance below 40F)

It won't crack around 30F. (unless you hit a big pothole or something)

It will lose grip below 40F for sure but I've driven MPSS around 30~35F, slightly damp condition and it was still better than Blizzak LM in similar condition.
(Tire was probably warmer since the car was in the garage overnight but still..)

For sure, I wouldn't drive or park overnight if the temp gets close to 20F. (I would be worried if temp gets below high 20s)

30F or above? I would not worry to much.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by B58togo

You're pushing your luck at 23 degrees on Super Sports. I'm putting ~ 440 to the wheels and traction is a joke under 40-45. Even when I was stock, it was dicey.

It is just a matter of driving sensibly until the tyres warm up, temperatures often vary from -5C (23F) to +25C (77F) over a 48 hour period in Oct here, still better braking distances on MPSS on an M240i at -5C than the average vehicle on the road.

[rhop101]

As folks have stated above as long as you don’t go pothole hunting on a 30 degree morning the tires will warm up into 60s on a 40degree dry day. I’ve driven the car a few times if it was above freezing but then lower 40s during the day. The PSS are fine. I avoided the high 30s rainy days though.

And in the past I’ve used certain extreme performance summer tires in 40 degree weather in the driving rain cruising at 80 down the freeway and there fine when new. PSS is a max performance summer. The advantage of the PSS or PS4S over extreme summers are it has more hydroplaning resistance. An A/S won’t have any additional resistance over the max performance summer.

That being said. I have 3 cars so if I don’t feel like taking the bmw out I can take my civic or I can take my s2000 out which has 3 sets of wheels and tires exactly to avoid this sort of conundrum because I used to DD that car even in the snow.

I vote you get the summers and then get a 2nd set of A/S for the winter/rainy months. You’ll regret not having the PSS

[XutvJet]

I'm a firm believer in choosing tires for the conditions a car is going to be driven in for a long period of time. Living in North Texas DEFINITELY does not necessitate the need to go with all season tires. Dear God no. You'll really miss out on just how good this chassis is by going with all seasons full time.

The MPSS/PS4S tires are absolutely fine in the wet in temps above 60 which are the conditions you'll be driving in most of the year. We get more torrential spring/summer rain in Kansas City than N. Texas and I haven't had an issue with driving in the wet. Just don't drive excessively fast in the wet or deep water (you never should anyways).

The MPSS/PS4S tires do get very hard once temps drop below 50 degrees and grip is reduced substantially. You need to drive more diligently when the conditions are below 50, especially if it's wet out. Over the past 3.5 years, I've driven my M235 on MPSS/PS4S tires in KC with temps in the 32-50 degree range for extended periods before swapping to my winter tires. It's never been a problem. I just need to be aware of the tire limitations. Even in those conditions, my M235 still handles and brakes better than my wife's 2015 Outback on all seasons.

For as little cold as you get in N. Texas, you'll be fine and I don't see the point in compromising the handling and braking for all season tires. The MPSS/PS4S tires are superior to the all season option in temps above 50 and those are the conditions you'll be driving 90%+ of the time in N. Texas.

[dradernh]

Let's not forget about tread depth. A tire at 10/32nds will offer more hydroplaning resistance than a tire with only 5/32nds left.

[230iZTR]

Maybe a dumb question, but why not order the car with the high performance tires to enjoy during the summer months and switch to a humble all season for the few months you'll have to deal with heavy precipitation and low temperatures? That way you'll have the best bits and bobs from the track package on the car and get the performance you crave in the summer, without feeling like you're putting yourself I'm danger for the brief spell of unfavorable conditions.

I mean...I wouldn't wear the same pair of shoes year round regardless of how the conditions change. Why should tires be any different?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 230iZTR

Maybe a dumb question, but why not order the car with the high performance tires to enjoy during the summer months and switch to a humble all season for the few months you'll have to deal with heavy precipitation and low temperatures? That way you'll have the best bits and bobs from the track package on the car and get the performance you crave in the summer, without feeling like you're putting yourself I'm danger for the brief spell of unfavorable conditions.

I mean...I wouldn't wear the same pair of shoes year round regardless of how the conditions change. Why should tires be any different?

I understand this, but we're talking Dallas. They might have a total of 30 days below 50 degrees, most times, those lows are occurring between 1am and 8am. It doesn't make sense to have a separate set of tires/wheels for so few days of cold weather.

I'd also argue that outfitting cars for the worst case scenario is also woefully dumb. My M235 handles and brakes like a wet porkchop with Aplin PA4s compared to my summer tires once temps go above 45 degrees. There are many many days between late November and mid-March where temps are 45-60 degrees in Kansas City. My car is most definitely more dangerous in warmer temps with the winter tires. I only run the winter tires because we can and do get snow/slush and temps can get into the single digits. I'm seriously considering going with Continental DWS next because it's so rare that snow stays on the roads in KC longer than a day and DWS are fine in the slush and SO MUCH BETTER above 20 degrees than the Alpins.

[morphomeman]

Given that there are very few days in DFW when the summer tires are marginal, why not just leave the car at home those days? God created Uber and Lyft for just those occasions. You will spend a lot less than you would on a second set of tires (and wheels, because the all-weather tires are likely to require different wheels if you go with a serious set of summers).
Disclaimer: I do not work for either of these companies and I do not own a taxi.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

My M235 handles and brakes like a wet porkchop with Aplin PA4s compared to my summer tires once temps go above 45 degrees. There are many many days between late November and mid-March where temps are 45-60 degrees in Kansas City. My car is most definitely more dangerous in warmer temps with the winter tires. I only run the winter tires because we can and do get snow/slush and temps can get into the single digits. I'm seriously considering going with Continental DWS next because it's so rare that snow stays on the roads in KC longer than a day and DWS are fine in the slush and SO MUCH BETTER above 20 degrees than the Alpins.

I may do same after current winter tire is done.

There is no big difference between all season and winter tire when it is cold and dry.
We do get very cold days but also way more warmer days as well in winter.

For the snow traction, I can deal with going at reduced speed since there is no hill here. (highway on ramp is one of the steepest "hill" here. lol)

There is just too much to give up with winter tire for 90% of the winter months.