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      03-20-2019, 01:20 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
A3 = FWD
CLA = FWD

I'm wondering if BMW's logic is to imitate its competitors instead of differentiate? Maybe they know this market is not for enthusiasts but more for entry level customers that aspire to drive a luxury brand and can't afford a $50k 328.

Still sadden to see such a strong branding little by little be diluted into something with very little differentiation.
I remember around 2010-2011 some article broke stating that like 80-90% of 1-series customers didn't know their car was RWD. This was an enthusiast-dedicated vehicle btw.

It's been nearly a decade later and needless to say, people care about tech and comfort even more now. And thanks to Instagram culture the need to show off a badge is even bigger too.

For every 1 dude/gal like us there's probably 99 who don't give a shit how the car drives.
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      03-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Looks good in my opinion. Is the car going to come in this light blue color (long beach blue maybe?? Isn't that also coming to the regular 2 coupe) or is it just the editing of the photo?
Looks like a suboptimal grading of Snapper Rocks Blue though.
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      03-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #69
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
This is the fight I've had for the last decade. My M Coupe wasn't kid friendly, the E91 and F31 were too large, heavy and saddled with only the base engine and the F31 had awd and an automatic too. The sedans were boring and the coupes had rear windows that didn't open, rendering them useless for my dog. We didn't get the five door hatch. The convertibles had a stupid, heavy hardtop.

So I've had other brands. First a Mazda 3. Then a couple of GTIs. Fwd isn't the devil, it's actually more fun than a heavy, boring, one wheel drive 3er that the wife parked in the garage for a while.

There's a chance that BMW actually knows what it's doing here. As noted, they've actually done a nice job with Mini dynamics and applying that to a small sedan might actually work well. Anything is better than the F series cars, even a fwd "coupe."
I agree that FWD isn't the devil but it just cannot match a RWD car by its very nature. I'm sure BMW's entry will be more fun than the very boring A3 and A/CLA, but it's still disappointing.

And I agree the F-chassis cars sucked nuts.
There's a point of rwd diminishing returns though that is keyed to weight, wheelbase and traction available. I greatly prefer small, light, tossable cars with a manual. A fwd car that fits those parameters is often more fun than a rwd one that misses one, two or all of those. My high school CRX Si was always more fun than my parents 560SL/SEL/SEC and 500 SL's. Snoozefest, glorified taxis.

Of course a similarly sized rwd car will usually be more enjoyable than a similarly sized fwd or awd car, but when smallish rwd cars aren't available in a class, I'm willing to defect to pullers.
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      03-20-2019, 01:42 PM   #70
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BMW recently issued a profit warning for 2019:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/20/bmw-...cost-cuts.html

The larger question for any company trying to generate profits in every market segment: when margin pressure trigger the trimming of the existing portfolio of cars / models?
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      03-20-2019, 02:31 PM   #71
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It has been stated in other posts that the M235 GC will be available in snapper rocks blue
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      03-20-2019, 02:32 PM   #72
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      03-20-2019, 02:34 PM   #73
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Finally fixed the hideous rear end I see. Kudos. Wonder what the rest of the car will look like and if it'll be available in M-CS spec.
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      03-20-2019, 02:41 PM   #74
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      03-20-2019, 02:55 PM   #75
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So shown in November but a teaser in March? That seems a bit much
Agreed the timing is a bit strange.
It feels too late for a "concept" vehicle (like they did for X2, Z4, X7 etc.), but too early for a teaser of the production version.
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      03-20-2019, 03:11 PM   #76
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      03-20-2019, 03:19 PM   #77
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      03-20-2019, 03:38 PM   #78
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Was really cool when you believed this, BMW.
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      03-20-2019, 04:03 PM   #79
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Where do we still find room at the back? in my 4 GC for 2 kids it's so just!
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      03-20-2019, 04:09 PM   #80
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Was really cool when you believed this, BMW.
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Was really cool when you believed this, BMW.
!!!The new 1 will be Front-wheel Drive!!!
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      03-20-2019, 04:45 PM   #81
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Yet another version of the same stuff already available with a different number on the back.
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      03-20-2019, 04:50 PM   #82
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Yet another version of the same stuff already available with a different number on the back.
Whatever do you mean?
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      03-20-2019, 06:01 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
There's a point of rwd diminishing returns though that is keyed to weight, wheelbase and traction available. I greatly prefer small, light, tossable cars with a manual. A fwd car that fits those parameters is often more fun than a rwd one that misses one, two or all of those. My high school CRX Si was always more fun than my parents 560SL/SEL/SEC and 500 SL's. Snoozefest, glorified taxis.

Of course a similarly sized rwd car will usually be more enjoyable than a similarly sized fwd or awd car, but when smallish rwd cars aren't available in a class, I'm willing to defect to pullers.
the CRX SI beats the pants off the Honda Acccord Coupe in the fun department. A Honda Acccord coupe in the 1990s was a total snoozer of a car.... I know because I owned the Acccord... and would have much preferred the CRX.

The problem here is this upcoming 2 series is not a small sporty 2 dr hatch with a very short wheelbase. BMW has that already from the same platform and it's badged MINI.
BMW also has a stretched version of the MINI badged Countryman... which I am sure is much more likely what this 2er will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I remember around 2010-2011 some article broke stating that like 80-90% of 1-series customers didn't know their car was RWD. This was an enthusiast-dedicated vehicle btw.

It's been nearly a decade later and needless to say, people care about tech and comfort even more now. And thanks to Instagram culture the need to show off a badge is even bigger too.

For every 1 dude/gal like us there's probably 99 who don't give a shit how the car drives.
Agree... this may even sell very well ala the F48 X1.... there just will be no interest from me. A shame, because I put my name in at my local dealer over 3 years ago hoping for an RWD M2 Gran Coupe.

now BMW has introduced a 2 er gran coupe.. and it's not gonna be M (for now) and it's also not gonna be RWD.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 03-20-2019 at 07:45 PM..
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      03-20-2019, 06:18 PM   #84
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I was listening to a pod cast from whiteroofradio (minis) and they said bmw saved something like $7-800 per chassis by going front wheel drive for this car. I don't really understand how you make a platform but we all know it does cost more to engineer the car have an engine at the front, drive at the rear and use a driveshaft to connect it all together. The real sad thing is this car will look beautiful and sell by the thousands. But it will just be what the cla is- a way for bmw to advertise their products are at a lower price point for more people to get in at. It's a real shame. This would have been a great replacement for my zhp sedan. I say it every time they come out with a new car, and I don't really care about being a Debbie downer on this, those that disagree just don't get it: bmw no longer makes the types of cars that I fell in love with.
Question for the engineers here: if the platform is built for FWD when cars are spec'd with xdrive, will they be able to send more than 50% of the power to the rear, or does the platform prevent that?
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      03-20-2019, 06:39 PM   #85
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Quote:
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Yet another version of the same stuff already available with a different number on the back.
Whatever do you mean?
It's like every coupe has to have a "grand" version. This is ultimately why the 3 series was broke up after E9X IMO. You couldn't have a 4 series grand coupe previously because this would just be a ridiculously redundant 4 door 3 series. So why do we need a grand coupe in every model now? To me it's like PC car manufacturing! "We're bound to make something somebody likes now":
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      03-20-2019, 06:53 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I remember around 2010-2011 some article broke stating that like 80-90% of 1-series customers didn't know their car was RWD. This was an enthusiast-dedicated vehicle btw.

It's been nearly a decade later and needless to say, people care about tech and comfort even more now. And thanks to Instagram culture the need to show off a badge is even bigger too.

For every 1 dude/gal like us there's probably 99 who don't give a shit how the car drives.
+1, Most of the car buying public, especially when it comes to luxury cars, don't really know/care about what they're buying. Of course we enthusiasts and forum members do, but not everyone is like us or really cares about these details that are important to us (sadly). When I was leasing my 540i, I was talking to another customer at the dealership while waiting, he was telling me about how he was about to get his fifth BMW, he loved the brand and loved his cars, but he wasn't educated on the brand or the cars and he said "My 535i has a great 3.5L V6 engine" this then lead to me explaining to him what an Inline 6 was and how BMW's nomenclature works, which was not an easy conversation, but it goes to show just what some people think they know about their cars.
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      03-20-2019, 07:53 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrippy View Post
It's like every coupe has to have a "grand" version. This is ultimately why the 3 series was broke up after E9X IMO. You couldn't have a 4 series grand coupe previously because this would just be a ridiculously redundant 4 door 3 series. So why do we need a grand coupe in every model now? To me it's like PC car manufacturing! "We're bound to make something somebody likes now":
BMW screwed this up by not leaving the 3er as a smaller sedan.

Every other manufacturer got this done right....

Audi had an A4 and they moved in an A3 below it.
Mercedes had a C class and moved in CLA below it.


BMW should have simply made a 4 series coupe and sedan (F30/F80) and continued with both a 3 series coupe and sedan as F87 variants instead of trying to split the 3er into two models and then bring in a 2er coupe only and not even bringing a smaller sedan to market.

As it is.. the F87 2er (which should have been badged a 3er based on size and history) and the current F80 4 series are essentially the same vehicles with different wheel bases, and just as buyers find a valid reason to buy an F87 M2 over an F82 M4... they would be able to select between an F88 M2 sedan and an F80 M3...
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      03-20-2019, 08:11 PM   #88
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Still scratching my head with the idea of it being a fail-wheel-drive (FWD)
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