[bladeomatic]

Just got my 235 w/ HK last night. I'm an audiophile and former record producer and have had some pretty stellar stereos in my cars.

-I rate the HK system about a 5 on what a good car stereo CAN sound like.

-I rate it about a 7 vs. most other factory stereos.

It beats the hell out of most econo boxes and typical mom & pop sedans but isn't as capable as many premium systems available in other cars.

Good, not great. Useable.

I want to load it up with a couple of CD's of projects I recorded. I know every nuance of these CD's, so I can really tell every single thing that's good or bad about any system.

My initial impressions are that the high end (treble) feels pretty good. Clean, not brittle, reasonable imaging.

The middle sounds ok. Perhaps not as round as it could.

The bottom (bass) feels like there's nowhere near large enough speakers to reproduce the frequency response nor provide the punch. A couple of 8 in drivers crammed into tiny boxes under low seats simply don't have the mass or space required to generate the bottom end adequately.

I think most folks will be fine with the HK. Perhaps adding a simple powered sub in the trunk will be a quick/cheap way to punch things up a bit.

How would I improve things?

My recommendations would be to wait until there are a number of aftermarket products available. Start with getting 4 new mid/tweeter combo speakers or splits to replace the door and shelf units. Disable all the stock mids/tweeters or play with keeping the tweeters with some after market midranges.

This will make EVERYTHING sound better. If you have the bread and while you're inside the the door panels, spring for quality speaker wire and perhaps some dynamat. These speaker changes alone should provide the biggest bang for the buck on the system. I believe there's a chap in the forums here who replaced the stock speakers with some Focals and got a much better sounding system.

For further improvement, I'd swap out the amp with a good quality multichannel amp. This would clean up the existing components even further, allow you to dial in some crossover points and provide the power/punch required for the next improvement…A good subwoofer. May be able to get a 10 or 12" mounted in the back shelf with some stiffened shelf bracing, etc so you could keep the trunk usable. Otherwise a boxed 10 or 12" in the trunk would help. If you did this I'd have the 2-8" woofers under the seats removed for a little more space. At the time of the amp, you could also opt for a graphic EQ, to help tailor the sound to the acoustics in the car a bit. Likely spot for that might be in the glove box.

Lastly I'd look at replacing the head unit. This will likely have some tradeoffs, as you'll get higher-quality audio and some other capabilities re input devices, etc, but lose that fully-integrated experience with the iDrive and other features.

That's the trouble with the modern head units these days…the car mfrs make them so tightly integrated with other areas of the vehicle (dims volume when incoming phone call or nav system directions, steering wheel controls, display album art on nav screen or instrument cluster). These are all nice conveniences. You can get much better audio quality on aftermarket units but will likely lose some of these elegant touches in how everything in the vehicle works together.

Hope this helps...

[///M235i]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Just got my 235 w/ HK last night. I'm an audiophile and former record producer and have had some pretty stellar stereos in my cars.

-I rate the HK system about a 5 on what a good car stereo CAN sound like.

-I rate it about a 7 vs. most other factory stereos.

It beats the hell out of most econo boxes and typical mom & pop sedans but isn't as capable as many premium systems available in other cars.

Good, not great. Useable.

I want to load it up with a couple of CD's of projects I recorded. I know every nuance of these CD's, so I can really tell every single thing that's good or bad about any system.

My initial impressions are that the high end (treble) feels pretty good. Clean, not brittle, reasonable imaging.

The middle sounds ok. Perhaps not as round as it could.

The bottom (bass) feels like there's nowhere near large enough speakers to reproduce the frequency response nor provide the punch. A couple of 8 in drivers crammed into tiny boxes under low seats simply don't have the mass or space required to generate the bottom end adequately.

I think most folks will be fine with the HK. Perhaps adding a simple powered sub in the trunk will be a quick/cheap way to punch things up a bit.

How would I improve things?

My recommendations would be to wait until there are a number of aftermarket products available. Start with getting 4 new mid/tweeter combo speakers or splits to replace the door and shelf units. Disable all the stock mids/tweeters or play with keeping the tweeters with some after market midranges.

This will make EVERYTHING sound better. If you have the bread and while you're inside the the door panels, spring for quality speaker wire and perhaps some dynamat. These speaker changes alone should provide the biggest bang for the buck on the system. I believe there's a chap in the forums here who replaced the stock speakers with some Focals and got a much better sounding system.

For further improvement, I'd swap out the amp with a good quality multichannel amp. This would clean up the existing components even further, allow you to dial in some crossover points and provide the power/punch required for the next improvement…A good subwoofer. May be able to get a 10 or 12" mounted in the back shelf with some stiffened shelf bracing, etc so you could keep the trunk usable. Otherwise a boxed 10 or 12" in the trunk would help. If you did this I'd have the 2-8" woofers under the seats removed for a little more space. At the time of the amp, you could also opt for a graphic EQ, to help tailor the sound to the acoustics in the car a bit. Likely spot for that might be in the glove box.

Lastly I'd look at replacing the head unit. This will likely have some tradeoffs, as you'll get higher-quality audio and some other capabilities re input devices, etc, but lose that fully-integrated experience with the iDrive and other features.

That's the trouble with the modern head units these days…the car mfrs make them so tightly integrated with other areas of the vehicle (dims volume when incoming phone call or nav system directions, steering wheel controls, display album art on nav screen or instrument cluster). These are all nice conveniences. You can get much better audio quality on aftermarket units but will likely lose some of these elegant touches in how everything in the vehicle works together.

Hope this helps...

I don't think anyone is expecting their 235 to emulate a studio.

[ir_fuel]

I hope the under the seat speakers are no issue when it comes to installing other seats...

[yep]

I wasn't impressed with the HK. I had to compare it side by side with another car that didn't have the HK system and it still wasn't a huge difference. It's just not very loud. I guess I grew up in an era when everyone had at least a 10 inch subwoofer in their trunk and was blasting either rap or heavy metal. The BMW sound systems are probably far higher sound quality than what I'm used to, but they are lacking in power and loudness.

Like the expert above said, you can probably fix 90% of the problem by sticking a powered sub in the trunk. A 10 or one of those tubes would be enough, but a 12 if you want to rattle some windows. I still ordered the HK system because I didn't feel like letting some low wage ape that drives a 2001 Civic tear apart my new $47K car installing speakers and wiring. I may or may not install an amp/subwoofer at some point in the future.

[hyperzulu]

I have some Diamond Audio Hex S400s speakers and an eDesignAudio 4way amp I can use. It doesn't have hi-level inputs though, and I don't know if the stock system has low level inputs that can be tapped into. I was thinking of using this along with a couple Focals for the fronts.

I also have eDesignAudio's monster 13av.2, but yeah, that's not going into my bimmer ever. Keeping so I can hopefully one day use it for home theater duties. At the moment though, it would split the living room in half.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I have some Diamond Audio Hex S400s speakers and an eDesignAudio 4way amp I can use. It doesn't have hi-level inputs though, and I don't know if the stock system has low level inputs that can be tapped into. I was thinking of using this along with a couple Focals for the fronts.

According to the picture, the diagram shows the location of all the speakers as well as what looks like a mounted amp in the trunk:

http://www.bmw.harmankardon-onlinetr...2-series/coupe

This likely means the dash head unit is not amped and is passing low-level (line level) signal to the trunk amp. It may be a simple affair to swap your amp in there. Worth looking into...

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by MmmTwo35

I don't think anyone is expecting their 235 to emulate a studio.

Nope, but I want as close as I can get! :-)

I don't think anyone is expecting their BMW to be a race car either…but I see a whole lotta folks here dropping downpipes, intercoolers and front splitters onto their street cars. And discussing (for days) how an LSD or air intake makes things a *bit* better. The pursuit of excellence, baby.

Folks who haven't driven a tweaked BMW don't know what they're missing.
Folks who haven't had an uh-mazing sound system in their cars…well...ditto.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

According to the picture, the diagram shows the location of all the speakers as well as what looks like a mounted amp in the trunk:

http://www.bmw.harmankardon-onlinetr...2-series/coupe

This likely means the dash head unit is not amped and is passing low-level (line level) signal to the trunk amp. It may be a simple affair to swap your amp in there. Worth looking into...

Def not on the HK system. It uses a MOST bust for signal. No easy way to tap into that and keep all the functions alive.

[yep]

I got my car in and the Harman Kardon stereo is pretty damn disappointing, especially for $875 extra. I had better sound (self installed) for ~$300 in my 1999 Civic with a 300 watt amp powering a couple of infinity reference 6x9's in the back and some 6.5's in the door.

The low end/bass is just absolutely awful and embarrassing for $875 extra. I am going to have to put in another amp and a bass tube in the trunk.

I don't care that they crammed 20 weak speakers into the car. They collectively sound mediocre. Where's the low end? Where's the bass? Where's the boom?

[Ricfutures]

I'm adding a 10" Kicker Substation to the trunk on Monday. The easy removal of the Substation in case I need more trunk space is what sold me on this solution. I'll post some feedback and photos afterwards.

[disco4me]

Originally Posted by Ricfutures

I'm adding a 10" Kicker Substation to the trunk on Monday. The easy removal of the Substation in case I need more trunk space is what sold me on this solution. I'll post some feedback and photos afterwards.

If you could provide details on how exactly you tap into the existing amp/speaker wiring that would be great. Thanks.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

SO if it is really that bad...are the troops gonna rally for a refund?

[koreez88]

2-Series HK audio is significantly worse than e90 HK audio... I was surprised at the difference.

[mjposner]

I have the HK system and my 2011 M3's enhanced audio was far better in two areas, much better bass, and was able to be heard with top down at 70. Using the HK with the windows down is a problem, you basically have to turn it all the way up to overcome wind noise. I have two 12s now in the trunk, solves the bass problem. Will likely upgrade speakers next, then the amp.

[Researcher]

This is a car and not a music studio. Buy it to drive it! Go back home to your $25k hifi system for the love of music.....

[darkerosxx]

I'm an audiophile (read: not bass-phile) and the stock non-hk system works great for me. Maybe I'm one of the few that still has undamaged ears.

[Steven1077]

Or you're tone deaf? lol

[bernstem]

Originally Posted by darkerosxx

I'm an audiophile (read: not bass-phile) and the stock non-hk system works great for me. Maybe I'm one of the few that still has undamaged ears.

I try to stay out of stereo discussions as they are so subjective, but I have to agree with you here. Loud bass does not make a good stereo. I would much prefer a system with anemic low frequency response that gives me a nice, flat, clear mid and high range response. I find it laughable (or downright scary if the HK is really that bad) when people say that a Chevy has a better stereo. I have rented many with and without upgraded sound and they are all boomy, muddled and completely lacking in mid and high frequency clarity. The bass is loud, though.

Based on my experience with previous HK systems, I would be willing to bet Bladomatic has it correct. Decent to good mid range and treble with anemic, but not offensive bass. Overall decent clarity without boominess, but still lacking in definition. This is also a rather inexpensive upgrade compared to better systems. Porshe costs either 2k or 5k for the upgraded stereo. Jaguar's is 4k. Mercedes rolls it into the Premium package at 2k. Cadillac rolls it into a 4k package. Seems like BMW's 800 is on the low end.

[one1er]

I've worked at a bmw dealer, and had quite some experience with the different sound options, including the HK. I never heard it in a 2 series, but I suppose it's more of the same.

In my opinion, the standard sound is very weak in power, but actually quite nice in balance! It's very clear, and the bass mid treble is quite well defined.
The HK system adds quite some power, but not as much as one might expect though. Same applies for sound quality. It's a disappointment. It's pretty bassy and trebly, hardly any mids, and very undefined overall, specially on the low end...very muddy.

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but although it isn't very expensive, it certainly doesn't deserve a premium name. I've heard better unnamed standard systems in other cars, specially in audis, and I f......ing hate audis!!

Still, it's way better than the standard sound system, so I'm taking the HK anyway...

[///M235i]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

SO if it is really that bad...are the troops gonna rally for a refund?

comparatively speaking though it is better than stock, it is definitely an upgrade from stock. you have to measure the value vs. 2 series stock.

[yep]

Originally Posted by Ricfutures

I'm adding a 10" Kicker Substation to the trunk on Monday. The easy removal of the Substation in case I need more trunk space is what sold me on this solution. I'll post some feedback and photos afterwards.

Looks good, I might do the same. Post some pics and feedback. I really think the audio just needs a sub in the trunk and it would solve 90% of the problem.

[dan99]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Just got my 235 w/ HK last night. I'm an audiophile and former record producer and have had some pretty stellar stereos in my cars.

-I rate the HK system about a 5 on what a good car stereo CAN sound like.

-I rate it about a 7 vs. most other factory stereos.

It beats the hell out of most econo boxes and typical mom & pop sedans but isn't as capable as many premium systems available in other cars.

Good, not great. Useable.

I want to load it up with a couple of CD's of projects I recorded. I know every nuance of these CD's, so I can really tell every single thing that's good or bad about any system.

My initial impressions are that the high end (treble) feels pretty good. Clean, not brittle, reasonable imaging.

The middle sounds ok. Perhaps not as round as it could.

The bottom (bass) feels like there's nowhere near large enough speakers to reproduce the frequency response nor provide the punch. A couple of 8 in drivers crammed into tiny boxes under low seats simply don't have the mass or space required to generate the bottom end adequately.

I think most folks will be fine with the HK. Perhaps adding a simple powered sub in the trunk will be a quick/cheap way to punch things up a bit.

How would I improve things?

My recommendations would be to wait until there are a number of aftermarket products available. Start with getting 4 new mid/tweeter combo speakers or splits to replace the door and shelf units. Disable all the stock mids/tweeters or play with keeping the tweeters with some after market midranges.

This will make EVERYTHING sound better. If you have the bread and while you're inside the the door panels, spring for quality speaker wire and perhaps some dynamat. These speaker changes alone should provide the biggest bang for the buck on the system. I believe there's a chap in the forums here who replaced the stock speakers with some Focals and got a much better sounding system.

For further improvement, I'd swap out the amp with a good quality multichannel amp. This would clean up the existing components even further, allow you to dial in some crossover points and provide the power/punch required for the next improvement…A good subwoofer. May be able to get a 10 or 12" mounted in the back shelf with some stiffened shelf bracing, etc so you could keep the trunk usable. Otherwise a boxed 10 or 12" in the trunk would help. If you did this I'd have the 2-8" woofers under the seats removed for a little more space. At the time of the amp, you could also opt for a graphic EQ, to help tailor the sound to the acoustics in the car a bit. Likely spot for that might be in the glove box.

Lastly I'd look at replacing the head unit. This will likely have some tradeoffs, as you'll get higher-quality audio and some other capabilities re input devices, etc, but lose that fully-integrated experience with the iDrive and other features.

That's the trouble with the modern head units these days…the car mfrs make them so tightly integrated with other areas of the vehicle (dims volume when incoming phone call or nav system directions, steering wheel controls, display album art on nav screen or instrument cluster). These are all nice conveniences. You can get much better audio quality on aftermarket units but will likely lose some of these elegant touches in how everything in the vehicle works together.

Hope this helps...

we need a voting system for comments like these...lol