[Legal Bill]

Does the standard Hi-Fi system have tweeters in the doors in addition to the four inch speakers? If so, where? I thought only the upgraded system had the tweeters.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

Does the standard Hi-Fi system have tweeters in the doors in addition to the four inch speakers? If so, where? I thought only the upgraded system had the tweeters.

Nope. No tweeters anywhere in the Hi-Fi system. Full-range driver city (:: cough, hack, gag :

Drop in aftermarket coaxials STAT. At a minimum.

[DanG]

The base system sucks. It has four inch paper speakers. No tweeters.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Ya, no tweeters, that's why bavsound went coax, so it would be plug and play. You'd have to wire for tweeters to add them as components.

[rlinden]

Following the threads re HiFi speakers, it seems there is recommendation of initial steps being to 1. disconnect the center speaker and 2. replace the front door speakers. How much is gained by also changing the rear speakers, particularly if the rear volume will be minimized ?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by rlinden

Following the threads re HiFi speakers, it seems there is recommendation of initial steps being to 1. disconnect the center speaker and 2. replace the front door speakers. How much is gained by also changing the rear speakers, particularly if the rear volume will be minimized ?

Lots.

Your issues are:
1). Timbre-matching. Coaxials (presumably) in the front and full-range drivers in the back will not sound good at all, even with the rears at a relatively low volume.
2). System/ASD volume. iDrive system sounds and ASD are mixed to emit primarily through the rear speakers. Unless your aftermarket fronts are very close to the OEM rears in sensitivity -- realistically within 2dB -- those sounds will be out of balance -- and likely louder -- with no way to control the volume other than the fader control. I estimate the sensitivity of the OEM rears and center channel (the same part number) to be about 94dB, and very, very few aftermarket drivers are that sensitive -- and the ones that are are pretty much crap.
3). Frequency articulation. For the 2-ohm subs under your seats to work properly, the volume needs to be fairly high with most 4-ohm aftermarket speakers because of the sensitivity issues above. The OEM amp underpowers the subs somewhat, and they simply don't get enough power to even out relative volume between bass and higher frequencies until about (roughly) 75 or 80dB.

Rule of thumb, if you replace any speakers: Do them all, or don't do them at all.

[rlinden]

Thanks for the response. If planning to replace both front and back speakers, are there speakers to consider other than Bavsound, which will hopefully ship and be reviewed over next couple of weeks ? A thread mentions Focal, but the person recommending them was noted to also be selling them in the classified section.

[barfastic]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Lots.

Your issues are:
1). Timbre-matching. Coaxials (presumably) in the front and full-range drivers in the back will not sound good at all, even with the rears at a relatively low volume.

So, wait, you are saying that if someone with coaxials all around upgrades to Bavsound/Focal components up front and upgrades to Bavsound/Focal coaxials in the back, that that would distort the sound between themselves as they are different types of speakers?

Im asking, because i was thinking of going this route... :/

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by rlinden

Thanks for the response. If planning to replace both front and back speakers, are there speakers to consider other than Bavsound, which will hopefully ship and be reviewed over next couple of weeks ? A thread mentions Focal, but the person recommending them was noted to also be selling them in the classified section.

Check other threads. Honestly, there are better options out there than the Bavsound for less money. All the Bavsound kit does is make the installation drop-in regarding the driver units themselves, and those coaxial units may be designed to work well with the OEM DSP of the amp (I'm skeptical of this, personally. I'd really like to know who is manufacturing the coaxial units for Bavsound). You still have to splice wires, still have to take off the front door panels, etc., just as you would need to for any replacements.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by barfastic

So, wait, you are saying that if someone with coaxials all around upgrades to Bavsound/Focal components up front and upgrades to Bavsound/Focal coaxials in the back, that that would distort the sound between themselves as they are different types of speakers?

Im asking, because i was thinking of going this route... :/

No: I'm saying that for similar speaker sizes, the drivers should match as closely as possible -- the ideal is the same make, series, and model in all locations.

Every driver design -- full-range, woofer, tweeter, sub, headphone, computer, transducer, and so on -- has a sonic 'signature': a reproduction pattern throughout the audible spectrum that the driver is designed to cover. Some of that signature refers to the peaks and valleys of volume as a tone goes up or down in frequency. Other parts of that signature are less subjective; put simply, bass 'fullness', low-midrange 'punch', midrange 'articulation', treble 'crispness', etc. This is what audiophiles generally refer to as 'timbre'.

Many factors create a 'timbre', from speaker size, cone stiffness, and excursion length to magnet strength, material composition, transducer efficiency, and much more. The bottom line of all this is that nearly every unique driver design reproduces similarly if the materials and fundamental parameters are similar -- i.e., the same make, series, and size of a driver. The next best choice is a driver set of a different size -- say, a 6.5-inch driver paired with a 4-inch driver -- but with similar materials, the latter of which generally makes the largest difference in how a driver will sound regarding its 'timbre'.

Timbre-matching is precisely why you see shared tweeter, midrange, and woofer designs across a model line of not only car speakers, but home speakers as well. Case in point: a home speaker maker will use a specific tweeter and small woofer in a small bookshelf and/or satellite speaker, and use that same tweeter and small woofer alongside larger -- but still relatively similar -- midrange and woofer driver designs in a range's large floorstanding mains.

[selmeralto]

I know this is going to sound like self-advertising and I apologize for that. But I have installed a mixed system whose timbres match very nicely - at least for my taste. It's a combination of Eton in the front and JLAudio in the back.

I've got the HK system so I can't speak for how well this would match the electronics in the HiFi system. But I'm pretty sure that Grave has the Euro Hifi version and he's got Etons in the front.

This combination has the advantages of a reasonable cost and true drop-in installation: no adapters, no splicing.

Further, the speakers are available now.

Details at http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1236238 .

Again, apologies for the self-reference.

[rlinden]

Hope HiFi thread not hijacked to HK. Asking another way, for the person who does not get HK due to poor reviews, and has a price point of the $895 to upgrade HiFi (and assume will be having it installed) what are the best solutions ? It seems they would include disconnecting the center speaker, probably due to cost not changing amp and replacing 4 speakers, which can involve more skills if being installed rather than DYI.

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by rlinden

Hope HiFi thread not hijacked to HK.

Right, and apologies if I seemed to go in this direction. I was really trying to say that at least one forum member with a HiFi system has installed the drop-in Etons, to good effect. And I was trying to suggest that the particular system combination of Eton and JLAudio works well sonically as a whole.

And the price is way below what you're budgeting...

[Legal Bill]

Well, for me this discussion is all after the fact. I already ordered my Bavsound stage one system for Hi Fi. I guess Bavsound could be, unqualified or unscrupulous, but I'm guessing they know more about sound systems than I do.

They don't arrive until June, but I'll report back here with my impressions.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

Well, for me this discussion is all after the fact. I already ordered my Bavsound stage one system for Hi Fi. I guess Bavsound could be, unqualified or unscrupulous, but I'm guessing they know more about sound systems than I do.

They don't arrive until June, but I'll report back here with my impressions.

Don't worry too much. I don't think Bavsound is either unscrupulous or unqualified, and whatever coaxials they've come up with will sound significantly better than the OEM drivers.

With its kit, you're paying for ease of installation coupled with as significant an improvement in sound as possible with as little thought from the consumer as possible -- at a certain price point. Better solutions would necessitate more involvement in all three of those factors. Some simply don't want that -- and there's nothing terribly wrong with that approach if a product enables it well enough.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Looks like Eton has F22 speaker replacements, that look to be for the standard HIFI (the page in in German, http://upgrade-audio.de/fahrzeugspez...e/b-100-w.html -- I don't speak German), that doesn't require wire splicing but does include A-pillar mountable tweeters. Looks like two front door mid drives and two tweeters. They also have what looks to be two sub options. I don't see mid driver options without the tweeter for the read deck.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

Looks like Eton has F22 speaker replacements, that look to be for the standard HIFI (the page in in German, http://upgrade-audio.de/fahrzeugspez...e/b-100-w.html -- I don't speak German), that doesn't require wire splicing but does include A-pillar mountable tweeters. Looks like two front door mid drives and two tweeters. They also have what looks to be two sub options. I don't see mid driver options without the tweeter for the read deck.

These are what selmeralto installed in his HK (see his post above) and, per my suggestion, paired with JL Audio C2-400x coaxials in the back. He seems to dig 'em ... but yes: Hi-Fi users will need to retrofit HK tweeter sail panels in the front doors to make these work.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

Well, for me this discussion is all after the fact. I already ordered my Bavsound stage one system for Hi Fi. I guess Bavsound could be, unqualified or unscrupulous, but I'm guessing they know more about sound systems than I do.

They don't arrive until June, but I'll report back here with my impressions.

Good luck! Looking forward to your review. Are you planning on this as a DIY project, or will you bring it to a shop?

[DanG]

Focal ISC 100s are currently available and work well with the standard HiFi system. I replaced all four stock 4 inch speakers over 2 years ago with the Focals.

[Legal Bill]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Good luck! Looking forward to your review. Are you planning on this as a DIY project, or will you bring it to a shop?

Yes, this is an easy DYI. Comes with everything you need and they even throw in a BMW trim removal tool kit so that you don't mark-up the trim.

[eflatminor]

Originally Posted by Legal Bill

Well, for me this discussion is all after the fact. I already ordered my Bavsound stage one system for Hi Fi. I guess Bavsound could be, unqualified or unscrupulous, but I'm guessing they know more about sound systems than I do.

They don't arrive until June, but I'll report back here with my impressions.

I too ordered the Bavsound Stage One coaxials for my "HiFi" system (5 four inch speakers, no tweeters in the sail panels). Anxiously awaiting their shipment but still not sure if they're to ship in April or June. The website is not clear.

I also ordered the bimmertech replacement amp and ASD-disabling harness. Got that directly from bimmertech as the price was significantly lower than Bavsound, who sells the exactly same amp.

Already installed the Bavsound Ghost replacement woofers (can't really call them 'subs'). It helped improve the sound, but I suspect better low frequency articulation with the new amp. We'll see...

[Legal Bill]

Originally Posted by eflatminor

I too ordered the Bavsound Stage One coaxials for my "HiFi" system (5 four inch speakers, no tweeters in the sail panels). Anxiously awaiting their shipment but still not sure if they're to ship in April or June. The website is not clear.

I also ordered the bimmertech replacement amp and ASD-disabling harness. Got that directly from bimmertech as the price was significantly lower than Bavsound, who sells the exactly same amp.

Already installed the Bavsound Ghost replacement woofers (can't really call them 'subs'). It helped improve the sound, but I suspect better low frequency articulation with the new amp. We'll see...

Thanks for that tip on the amp. I plan to go in steps and stop when I'm happy with what I hear. FWIW, I got an e-mail from them that said the speakers would ship in June, but that may have been due to a concern I raised about April delivery.