My Bavsound Ghost Subwoofer / Bimmertech Amp Review (WIP) |
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12-30-2015, 05:20 AM | #1 | |
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My Bavsound Ghost Subwoofer / Bimmertech Amp Review (WIP)
I've been getting a lot of PMs about this set up so I've decided to make a post. I will be updating the OP as I get everything set up. Hopefully this post will answer a lot of the questions I've been getting.
My setup is a 2016 M235i WITH the HK Sound Option. This is the guide I followed to install the amp. Credits to the OP JNoSol. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1133971 It's basically the same for the 2 series besides a couple push pins. If I remember correctly we only have 2 of them on the quarter panel cover. Also, to access the usb input on the amp, you need to remove the amp. There is no room for even the supplied usb cable to fit, unless you remove the amp. A 90 degree usb adapter would be recommended. I personally have left the cover off for the moment since I plan on messing around with the settings. Removing the amp off the mount is literally one bolt. The "Mini Amp" next to your amp is the ASD module. You will not be messing with this at all. I've read that disconnecting this module will deactivate the ASD, but you would lose the ability to code. I cannot confirm this, just what I've read from another bimmer forum. You will need to code out the ASD or this amp will amplify the ASD sound as well. You could also buy a bypass like some of the members have, but I think it is a waste of money. You could by the tuning cable, and do it yourself, along with customizing. It was very simple and the guide we have on here is perfect. My Initial Impressions of the Bimmertech Amp. I am by no means an audiophile, so take this review with a grain of salt. My amp came preloaded with the HIFI tune. It was supposed to come with the HK tune, but I was skeptical so I PM'd Nelson from Bimmertech. He sent me the HK tune for it, so I loaded it up. Amp needs to be on, and from what I've read, volume needs to be set at zero to load a tune. Also, I was instructed to change my DIP settings. They were all set to OFF when I received the amp. Here are the new settings. 2 and 4 were switched to ON. (Side note on the case it says on but if you look into the board, the ON and OFF are switched, along with the number 1-6 reversed. I'm pretty sure you are supposed to follow what is on the outside of the AMP and not the inside circuit board.) Overall, the Amp is a nice upgrade to the audio system. It is completely plug and play. Powers all 12 speakers. Highs are crisp, and the bass hits a lot harder. You can customize your EQ anyway you like. My complaints have to do with the tune I received. Nelson said it was the tune created for the M235i, but the file was named F30, so I am a bit skeptical. My personal opinion is that it's not a custom one for our car. Maybe someone can chime in on their opinion. Here is the a side by side of the tune for the HiFi system on the left, and the "HK" tune on the right. This is for the front door speakers. I've been comparing the tune with other ones that people have posted and the EQ graph looks completely different. The sound is also too "centered." Feels like the rears and sides are toned down, while the center speaker is maxed out. There is no distortion or loss of clarity, just that too much sound is coming from the center channel. This is the "HK" tune for the center channel. I'm assuming this is the center, "Channel E" due to the process of elimination. IMO, it seems like the center has the the mid to high range set too loud, while the door speakers are tuned way down. I do not know how to professionally tune an audio system, but hopefully someone on here does and can share their tunes. Even though it sounds tons better than the factory, I believe it can sound much better. I've also contacted Bavsound, and they told me they are working on a tune for this amp and their Ghost woofers. I will share this tune once they get it out to me. They've told me what adjustments to make in the meanwhile. I'll report back with how it sounds when I first plug in, then again after making their recommended adjustments. Now for my review on the Ghost Woofers. I have no yet installed these, even though I got them almost 3 weeks ago. Been very busy with the holiday season. My initial impressions of the speakers are, "Did I just waste 400 dollars?" The reason I say this is that, look wise, they don't look like traditional woofers. I guess that is why they are "Ghost" woofers. Since they have to fit in the factory enclosures. I am fairly confident that the phrase, "Don't judge a book by it's cover" applies and I will be impressed. Even with the amp, the factory sub woofers are lacking. Hopefully I will have these installed in the next couple of days. *UPDATE* So I got around to installing the Ghost Woofers and here are my thoughts. The installation was very straight forward. Just follow this video. For 8 inch subs they pack a pretty decent punch. Right now I am in the process of trying out a bunch of tunes I got my hands on. I can tell you that with the more aggressive ones I've tried, they really do perform well. Currently, my honest opinion is that these are a waste of money without an amp. I'm sure they sound better than the factory, but not by much. I can't compare to the regular Hi-Fi but the HK subs seem a to do a decent job when hooked up to the factory amp. I highly recommend upgrading your amp if you want to run these Ghost Subs. Build wise, fitment is top notch, and quality is excellent. Also, Bavsound sent me these out to me without the seals. For my troubles, they sent them out next day, along with a 15 dollar Amazon gift card. A+ Customer service in my book. Nelson from Bimmertech was also very straight forward with me. The only complain I have with him is that he has seemed to disappear. Before my last PM, he followed up with me the same day. I've yet to receive a response for my latest question, and it's been a couple weeks now. It seems like other have had some trouble contacting him as well, so I hope everything is well. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them the best I can. I also will post up my tune, and hope others can contribute as well. *Update* The Tunes are now finalized! Quote:
Last edited by Cloud IX; 02-16-2016 at 05:15 PM.. |
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12-31-2015, 07:16 AM | #2 |
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Good post. They really do need to write some better instructions for the install and ship it with the amp...
Agree with the USB cable, there is very little space in there... I left the cable plugged in and reinstalled the amp, the bracket doesn't fit back in 100% if you leave the cable in. Good idea with the 90 degree adaptor (although I'm not sure if there's enough space to fit it?) I have been using the F30 tunes as well, which Patryk recommended I do. I would also love to know if someone has some F22 tunes to share. Yeah Nelson seems to have stopped responding, but Patryk has responded to my emails quickly.
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12-31-2015, 07:42 AM | #3 |
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Just some notes for those awaiting install so they can avoid making the mistake I made. I did my install last weekend and I bent the USB cable. Afterwards I couldn't connect to my laptop. Hopefully only the cable was damaged and not the input to the amp. I ordered a new cable with a right angle mini USB plug so we'll see how that goes. Also, my amp bracket came so that when installed the USB input and DIP switches were facing the rear fender. I took off the bracket and turned it around so that it now faces inside the trunk.
I have the HK setup and also installed BAVsound Ghost subs (waiting for the stage 1 speakers to come out). I don't know if it is the stock amp tune but I had to turn the treble almost all the way down and the bass all the way up on the head unit to get a decent sound, but it's still not great. It seemed to lack midrange. I'm hoping it's just the amp tune because it's disappointing. Hopefully this can be fixed when I can actually connect to the amp using the software and try out some different tunes. So share your tunes if you got em!
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01-01-2016, 09:39 AM | #4 | |
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01-01-2016, 09:54 AM | #5 |
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Apparently they design speakers based on the acoustics of the vehicle for each model.
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01-02-2016, 10:28 AM | #6 | |
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Previous: 2011 E82 DCT 135i Space Grey Build thread: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1149793 |
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01-02-2016, 10:58 AM | #7 |
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I unscrewed the 4 Allen screws, flipped the bracket 180 degrees and screwed back together. The amp fits fine, the wording is right side up and the DIP switches and USB input are facing you
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01-03-2016, 09:58 AM | #8 |
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I look forward to the subwoofer performance impressions. I think I want to go this route. I don't need car rattling bass anymore, but I do want to feel it at least. I hope these fit the bill.
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01-03-2016, 12:24 PM | #9 |
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Update: I received my new right angle USB cable and it fits and works perfectly. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...0+Degree+Angle
Uploaded the tune that was sent to me by Nelson from bimmertech and it sounds much better, although I think it could sound even better once we get an actual tune for our model. I was sent an f30 hifi tune and an f30 bsw tune (see links below). Since I have the HK system and installed the ghost subs, I used the f30 hifi tune and changed the parameters for the subs to what was setup in the f30 bsw tune. Sounds pretty good. I did keep the treble flat and boosted bass in the idrive tone settings +5. I'm hoping that either bimmertech or BSW come out with a tune more tailored to the F22. Only time will tell. And again I'm still waiting for the stage 1 speakers to come out for F22 and I'm sure it will require another tune. If you have a good tune, please share. attached are a couple of tune files that are compatible with your F22 HK system. Remove the PDF extension after downloading Last edited by chemh0ser; 01-05-2016 at 06:46 AM.. |
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01-03-2016, 07:01 PM | #11 |
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I'll have to take everything apart in the trunk again. I can do it but it may be a while before I get around to it.
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01-03-2016, 09:57 PM | #13 |
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I can tell you that no matter how your amp bracket is set up or the orientation of the amp, the cable will fit within the stock mounting bracket so you can leave the cable hooked up and just have it coming out from under the interior panel. This way, once it's installed you can leave the cable coiled up and hook up your laptop without having to disassemble anything.
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01-04-2016, 05:15 PM | #14 | |
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I'm going to shelve my opinions about Bimmertech here, other than to say that it's plainly shipping an incomplete product. (Don't ask me to expound; I already have in other threads).
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01-04-2016, 06:30 PM | #15 | |
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I AM an audiophile (Recording engineer for 15 years...see my avatar). I was waiting to see early impressions on the amp first, before springing for the amp. It sounds like it's worthy, so I may buy/install the amp in a few weeks. Having tuned recording studios, listening rooms and a couple of killer car stereos, I'm pretty confident that I can find graphic EQ curves that work with the 2's acoustics and components. I'll share any settings I find that work. I have not purchased the amp yet but do have the Ghost subs in boxes just waiting. Like you I was wowed by the customer support re the gaskets and amazon gift card. Top drawer service. I disagree re the Ghost subs appearance. They are significantly better made than the OEM (bigger magnets, stiffer frames, stronger cones, tighter spiders). They should provide a tighter and more accurate low-mid to bass experience. But let's not kid ourselves, these are only 8" woofers crammed into tiny boxes, so they're not going to resonate like a pair of 12's in a large trunk enclosure. I'm crazy busy at work but hoping to get time to drop them into my 2014 M235i HK shortly. My big conundrum is the rest of the system. Trying to determine whether to wait and see if BavSound comes out with a "Series 1" set of door/back speakers, or whether to jump into some Focals or similar. I've seen folks mention the Focals and perhaps 1-2 other speakers that work with the 2 series. Anyone have any thoughts re this? I'd much rather get the speakers installed and THEN spend time installing and tweaking the amp curves. I know me and I'll spend hours getting the curves as best as possible. Given the inconvenience of adjusting the settings, I'd rather just do this once with good speakers and be done with it. |
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01-04-2016, 08:35 PM | #16 | |
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01-05-2016, 01:56 AM | #17 | |
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I don't even understand how you could post something like this without checking it first with us or Audiotec Fischer (manufacturer of the amp). Maybe you know it is not true but just posted this false information for some reason Our exclusive version of PP82DSP has been hardware modified for BMW's factory audio system to guarantee that you will be getting the full power from this amp (signal-to-noise ratio has been modified). With regular PP82DSP you will not be able to reach power levels mentioned in the amp spec. Moreover you can buy this version of PP82DSP ONLY from BimmerTech or our distributors. Finally it's the only 100% plug and play amp/DSP kit on the market as it includes dedicated bracket, harness and base tune. I am not going to comment on your posts anymore but hopefully other forum members can see your credibility now. Another thing is your comment about our tunes that will be worth nothing if speakers are upgraded. ITS NOT TRUE AGAIN. First of all there are more and more tunes created by forum members, e.g. 3-series community at http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1182351 so this amp is a great platform for people to create and share their own tunes. Secondly, we have been creating new tunes and will keep doing that, but obviously it's impossible to have a tune for everyone to match all different speaker combinations and sound preferences. Finally and the most important, you do not have to change your tune every time you change speakers. Think about the factory amp which has a certain tune and all the people that upgrade only speakers and keep the factory amp. The sound is better with the same factory amp/tune and upgraded speakers, so if someone says "the tune supplied won't be worth a damn if you've switched out any speakers for aftermarket ones." you can't take it seriously. It seems it's better to have a professional tune for your speakers and this amp gives you possibilities to create one, but there is no perfect tune. Even tune files we had created professionally sometimes do not match music taste of some customers. That being said you do not have to change the tune every time you change speakers but you can... Last edited by Patrys@BimmerTech; 01-06-2016 at 06:36 AM.. |
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01-05-2016, 12:19 PM | #18 | ||||
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Back when I was reviewing the specs between Bimmertech's Match amp and the Match PP82DSP, no mention was made of any of this by your representatives. No mention of any of this was, at the time, made of any of this on your website, either. I find this quite curious. Before you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, please review your marketing and business practices -- which, I will now mention because you opened the door, sir, has been highly suspect and not well thought out regarding this product at all. You delivered product late to initial customers, include no installation instructions (including no mention of the USB-access issue when installed) and you still insist on calling the product PnP when it is not because of the conflict it creates with the 2-series' ASD, which requires quasi-legal coding to eliminate. Also, I wouldn't question my credibility again. I'm pretty sure, in the realms I've had issue with (marketing, product positioning, legal requirements, etc.), I've got more experience than you do, and at a far, far higher level. I do it every day. Quote:
As you're well aware, speaker characteristics differ wildly between models in measures as important as ohm rating and sensitivity to as subtle as frequency response across the audible spectrum. Anyone who's familiar with how DSP works will tell you that changing even one speaker in the system requires readjustment of certain parameters because of those differences. In a nutshell: a DSP 'tune' accounts for everything from time delay and room acoustics (i.e., the car's interior) to frequency shaping and harmonic elimination. If you change one part of the DSP formula, the entire rest of the formula ideally must be re-adjusted. It's common sense, really. If you use one tablespoon of cayenne pepper in a recipe instead of one teaspoon, you'd better adjust some other parts of the recipe before serving that dish. The same theory applies. Quote:
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Also (emphases added here), Fact: Changing just the speakers changes the sound drastically with the OEM amp. Why wouldn't the same exact thing -- Changing just the speakers changes the sound drastically with the Bimmertech amp -- be the case? This, sir, is common sense! No, of course you don't HAVE to -- but to get the most out of a system such as Bimmertech's (not to mention any speakers a customer may have chosen), it's a no-brainer to "start from scratch", as I said before -- preferably, but not necessarily, by a professional with DSP tuning experience. Sure, the supplied tunes can be used as a baseline. I will agree with you regarding the nonexistence of the "perfect" tune -- it's partially subjective, as I've mentioned in other posts, and the car environment is already far from ideal anyway. *Edit: I understand BimmerTech is based in Poland. Nothing wrong with that at all. But you must (and, surely?!) understand that laws governing product sales differ from country to country. In the U.S., we have laws against something called false advertising. Eventually, whether it's in a forum, on a website, or wherever, practicing false advertising will catch up to you if you continue to sell to consumers in this country. Finally, to the OP: Sorry for the derail. This company brought it on itself.
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01-07-2016, 08:06 AM | #19 |
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So I finally got around to installing the BavSound Ghost subwoofers and updated the first post with my thoughts.
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01-07-2016, 08:32 AM | #20 | |
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01-07-2016, 09:51 AM | #22 | |
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- Much more clarity with clearer highs and more pronounced mids - Bass hits harder and tighter although not as much as I expected when listening at low volume - I had to set treble in iDrive tone settings to flat - At lower volumes bass is still a bit weak for my liking, this varies according to music genre, recording, etc. - I set bass in iDrive tone settings to +6 - Turning the volume up to 75% and above gives much more bass. It is unfortunate the bass increase is not linear with volume increase. It goes from somewhat present to punch you in the face - I feel that eventually there will be a better tune out there for the F22, of course by that time the BSW stage 1 will be out and we will have to start all over again Overall, I feel that the amp and sub upgrade was worth it. The sound is definitely better, especially when cranked. The tunes do make a huge difference. I'm hoping we get some real tweakers to develop a kick ass tune.
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