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      12-12-2015, 05:46 PM   #23
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Hi Everyone,

This is my first post and I am loving my Midnight blue 228i 6 spd with only 300 miles on it. For sound I load .flac files on a USB drive. So far all resolution PCM files play (I don't want to get too technical but that includes all HiRes formats) but my DSD SACD rips don't. I am now using 64gB USB 3.0 drives and they work fine. I think I will use two and load new music as needed.

I read somewhere that someone used a 2tB portable HDD with problems. The manual says not to do this.
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      12-12-2015, 06:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Willis View Post
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post and I am loving my Midnight blue 228i 6 spd with only 300 miles on it. For sound I load .flac files on a USB drive. So far all resolution PCM files play (I don't want to get too technical but that includes all HiRes formats) but my DSD SACD rips don't. I am now using 64gB USB 3.0 drives and they work fine. I think I will use two and load new music as needed.

I read somewhere that someone used a 2tB portable HDD with problems. The manual says not to do this.
Congratulations on your new ride; I just got my M235 a week ago after having it first delivered in Munich. Great cars! I hadn't read the prohibition on HDD, but I suspect there may be one of two (or both) problems. First, in my previous 135i, it would not read beyond a certain number of files/songs, regardless of how they were stored as it could not index them. Secondly, larger portable HDD may draw more current than the USB port on the BMW can safely provide and this could be a fire hazard or the drive just wouldn't work at all. I have run into this same problem on some older receivers whose USB ports would work with a thumb drive, but not a HDD due to insufficient current output. As for your SACD rips, I don't know of any car that can handle DSD files and many won't even handle FLAC files. Enjoy your tunes and your car!
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      12-14-2015, 12:08 PM   #25
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My two cents:

- mp3s are the devil's compression algorithm and, IMHO, the single biggest reason OEM car stereos have become even more crappy than they already tended to be. Do not use unless you have to.
- The degradation issue is a major reason I don't use FLAC. (For the record: I use AIFF since I'm a Mac. Yes, I know there are tradeoffs with that. But it's most practical for my needs now).
- FiiO is an awesome manufacturer; I've met one of the founders. If you really feel a need to add one of its external players, one of those is what I'd choose.
- I'm really surprised that the 2-series HU will read lossless files of any sort. That said, I'm very, very skeptical of the actual analog conversion for playback since the HU and DAC downsamples nearly everything else it outputs -- even, as best my ears can tell, CDs played in the transport. I'd really be interested in hearing someone do an A/B between a lossless file USB and an external lossless DMP such as the FiiO, fed through both/either the analog Aux input and (if applicable, depending on the player) the digital USB input.
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      12-14-2015, 12:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
I'd really be interested in hearing someone do an A/B between a lossless file USB and an external lossless DMP such as the FiiO, fed through both/either the analog Aux input and (if applicable, depending on the player) the digital USB input.
Will do, Mike, as soon as my car arrives.
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      12-14-2015, 01:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post
Secondly, larger portable HDD may draw more current than the USB port on the BMW can safely provide and this could be a fire hazard or the drive just wouldn't work at all ... As for your SACD rips, I don't know of any car that can handle DSD files and many won't even handle FLAC files. Enjoy your tunes and your car!
The USB current issue is a legitimate one, since it's already been proven by other posters in other posts that the one provided doesn't charge very quickly -- and doesn't have the amperage to charge at all when too much is running (apps, etc.) on an attached device. I'd estimate that it feeds between .5 and 1 amp to any device plugged into it -- not much at all.

As for DSD ... most home transports don't even have this capability (it's fairly new commercially), and many transports that say they read SACD content only actually read the stereo Redbook layer and split it, kind of like how an A/V processor splits a stereo signal into a so-called "multi-channel stereo" signal for 5.x-and-above gear. It's not true SACD.

Bottom line: just because something 'says' it does something doesn't mean it does it the way it should. This is particularly true of audio gear. Ya gotta read the fine print and the tech specs, too, at a minimum.
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      12-16-2015, 10:03 AM   #28
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FYI, to those who are following this thread: a user on a competing 2-series forum has verified that the HU downsamples CDs for playback through the system.

(Background: He has Morel coaxials and a JL Audio 600/6 amp installed so the baked-in OEM DSP isn't a factor. He used a DMP that can play lossless FLAC files and compared it to the CD output. "My jaw almost dropped hearing [the] day-and-night difference," he says. Here's the post, which is in this thread.)

The takeaways:
- ANY audio inputted into the USB or played in the CD player is downsampled by the HU, likely to 256Mbps or below
- The only way to feed lossless music to the system on a stock-outfitted car is through the Aux input, which thankfully appears to be a straight analog connection.
- The car's DAC is in the HU, not in its amp or any other modules
- If you want HQ digital music in your car, you will need to use gear through the Aux input or install gear downstream from the HU -- which, IIRC, does not have a quality Aux connection beyond the 3.5mm analog stereo jack in the center console.

Not good, fellas. Not good.
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      12-20-2015, 06:12 PM   #29
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DSD Files

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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
The USB current issue is a legitimate one, since it's already been proven by other posters in other posts that the one provided doesn't charge very quickly -- and doesn't have the amperage to charge at all when too much is running (apps, etc.) on an attached device. I'd estimate that it feeds between .5 and 1 amp to any device plugged into it -- not much at all.

As for DSD ... most home transports don't even have this capability (it's fairly new commercially), and many transports that say they read SACD content only actually read the stereo Redbook layer and split it, kind of like how an A/V processor splits a stereo signal into a so-called "multi-channel stereo" signal for 5.x-and-above gear. It's not true SACD.

Bottom line: just because something 'says' it does something doesn't mean it does it the way it should. This is particularly true of audio gear. Ya gotta read the fine print and the tech specs, too, at a minimum.
DSD files fall into to major categories: those on SACD discs and those which are available as hi-rez downloads. Some, but not all, SACD's have two layers, one of which is playable by any regular (Redbook) CD player. The other layer which contains the DSD files, is playable only by special SACD players, which are usually fairly expensive. DSD downloads are available in several hi-rez sample rates, but the most common is 2.8 mHz at one bit length. There are also some DSD downloads which are double that rate (5.6 mHz) or four times that rate (11.2 mHz), all at one bit length. Your analogy regarding "splitting" a stereo signal into multi-channel is not quite accurate as when a processor or AVR converts a two channel signal into multi-channel it uses a processor called a DSP which contains usually several different multi-channel algorithms such as Dolby Digital PLxII or DTS Neo to "create" the extra channels out of the two contained on the disc. However, an SACD which also contains a regular stereo mix, called a hybrid SACD, actually has the two standard 44.1 kHz/1 bit CD channels in a different layer which can be read by a standard CD player, so it is not "creating" something that isn't there by a DSP, but rather actually contains two copies of all the tracks, one DSD and the other CD. I might also mention that SOME SACD's actually are multi-channel and contain five discreet DSD channels, in addition to the two stereo CD channels. Finally, DSD is becoming more common on home AVR's and DAC's nowadays and even some of the better portable DAC's will play DSD files from downloads. I own multiple DAC's and AVR's which will play either the SACD's or the downloads or both.
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      12-20-2015, 06:20 PM   #30
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Downsampling CD's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
FYI, to those who are following this thread: a user on a competing 2-series forum has verified that the HU downsamples CDs for playback through the system.

(Background: He has Morel coaxials and a JL Audio 600/6 amp installed so the baked-in OEM DSP isn't a factor. He used a DMP that can play lossless FLAC files and compared it to the CD output. "My jaw almost dropped hearing [the] day-and-night difference," he says. Here's the post, which is in this thread.)

The takeaways:
- ANY audio inputted into the USB or played in the CD player is downsampled by the HU, likely to 256Mbps or below
- The only way to feed lossless music to the system on a stock-outfitted car is through the Aux input, which thankfully appears to be a straight analog connection.
- The car's DAC is in the HU, not in its amp or any other modules
- If you want HQ digital music in your car, you will need to use gear through the Aux input or install gear downstream from the HU -- which, IIRC, does not have a quality Aux connection beyond the 3.5mm analog stereo jack in the center console.

Not good, fellas. Not good.
Without going into detail, I find the above a bit hard to believe. I know of no DAC chip which downsamples files from Redbook (44.1 kbps/16 bit) to 256 mp3. This would require something such as a computer or a DSP to accomplish and since Redbook quality DAC chips are literally a dime a dozen, I can think of no reason why a designer would go to the trouble to do this; it just makes no sense. Cars have been able to play standard CD's at full resolution for many many years now and the head units which contain the CD transport normally also contain the DAC chip to play the WAV files on the CD at its native resolution. I think an engineer would have to go out of his way to accomplish what you are suggesting and to what end?
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      12-20-2015, 09:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post
Without going into detail, I find the above a bit hard to believe. I know of no DAC chip which downsamples files from Redbook (44.1 kbps/16 bit) to 256 mp3. This would require something such as a computer or a DSP to accomplish and since Redbook quality DAC chips are literally a dime a dozen, I can think of no reason why a designer would go to the trouble to do this; it just makes no sense. Cars have been able to play standard CD's at full resolution for many many years now and the head units which contain the CD transport normally also contain the DAC chip to play the WAV files on the CD at its native resolution. I think an engineer would have to go out of his way to accomplish what you are suggesting and to what end?
It is not necessary a down sampling issue but it could be quality of the DAC chip and/or associated DSP chip.
Just because a player can "process" full 16 bit does not mean that it can output 16-bit analog signal quality.
The CD output is definitely inferior even compared to HD radio. I didn't have this problem on CD player on my former E82.
I wonder this (CD) and USB input share same signal processing with BT streaming (awful!).
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      12-21-2015, 12:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post
Without going into detail, I find the above a bit hard to believe. I know of no DAC chip which downsamples files from Redbook (44.1 kbps/16 bit) to 256 mp3. This would require something such as a computer or a DSP to accomplish and since Redbook quality DAC chips are literally a dime a dozen, I can think of no reason why a designer would go to the trouble to do this; it just makes no sense. Cars have been able to play standard CD's at full resolution for many many years now and the head units which contain the CD transport normally also contain the DAC chip to play the WAV files on the CD at its native resolution. I think an engineer would have to go out of his way to accomplish what you are suggesting and to what end?
The engineering's been done, Redbeemer, to downconvert CDs to 256Kbps for ripping CDs to the HDD on Tech Package cars. This is stated in the Infotainment and Navigation Manual for our HU and iDrive. So we know -- and BMW admits -- that CD-quality 1411Kbps material is compressed for the on-board hard drive if you decide to burn the CD to the drive.

What is not evident and/or stated is if the HU downconverts and compresses for playback. My sense, as well as a few other posters' sense, is that it does -- and A/B tests with an HD DMP seem to bear this out. The reasoning behind it is sound from an engineering perspective, too, for BMW:
- compress files for the HDD so more music will fit on it
- compress playback to hide the OEM system's sonic deficiencies
- Not allow for variable compression playback to simplify the I/O in the DAC

One thing I've noticed about the transport is that it reads songs individually on the CD instead of spinning continuously -- you can hear the transport platter spool up between songs. That's a giveaway that the HU is oversampling, of course -- but it's also a giveaway that some sort of per-file action is going on. My guess is that the DAC needs the oversample not just to read data in advance to prevent skips, but needs it to perform the downconversion.

(Nice description of DSD, by the way, in the previous post).
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      12-21-2015, 04:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
The engineering's been done, Redbeemer, to downconvert CDs to 256Kbps for ripping CDs to the HDD on Tech Package cars. This is stated in the Infotainment and Navigation Manual for our HU and iDrive. So we know -- and BMW admits -- that CD-quality 1411Kbps material is compressed for the on-board hard drive if you decide to burn the CD to the drive.

What is not evident and/or stated is if the HU downconverts and compresses for playback. My sense, as well as a few other posters' sense, is that it does -- and A/B tests with an HD DMP seem to bear this out. The reasoning behind it is sound from an engineering perspective, too, for BMW:
- compress files for the HDD so more music will fit on it
- compress playback to hide the OEM system's sonic deficiencies
- Not allow for variable compression playback to simplify the I/O in the DAC

One thing I've noticed about the transport is that it reads songs individually on the CD instead of spinning continuously -- you can hear the transport platter spool up between songs. That's a giveaway that the HU is oversampling, of course -- but it's also a giveaway that some sort of per-file action is going on. My guess is that the DAC needs the oversample not just to read data in advance to prevent skips, but needs it to perform the downconversion.

(Nice description of DSD, by the way, in the previous post).
I called the BMW Genius Hotline this morning regarding this issue and several others I had regarding USB playback on the M235i. First of all, FLAC is not officially supported, although as others have stated and I have personally confirmed, the Harman Kardon head unit will play FLAC files through the USB port. The list of officially supported file formats is numerous, mostly related to Apple products which I don't own or use, but also mp3 and wma (Windows) formats, although I have noted that like many players, it will not play back very high bit rate wma files (haven't verified the upper limit). Probably 192 kbps wma files are a safe bet based on my experience with other players. As for the CD player, my "Genius" had to check with another, more knowledgeable Genius and their consensus was that the CD player does not downsample the 44.1/16 bit WAV files during playback, but likely DOES downsample them (as noted in the post above) when a CD is ripped to the internal hard drive for storage. As to the observed spinning of the CD briefly and then stopping while the track plays, this is likely what is known as "caching" and is actually used in some very high end music servers/players such as Aurender whereby a track or even the entire album is loaded into solid state memory and then read from there for actual playback. There are theoretical advantages to doing this, so, if the BMW head unit is doing this, it does not necessarily indicate any sort of degradation of the music. The one remaining question is whether the head unit somehow downsamples FLAC files contained on a USB drive during playback. I doubt that it does since there is little to be gained by doing so, but I have no way of proving this. I would say one more thing regarding music playback by most any audio system in most cars: generally, their is little to be gained by high quality files (as compared to mp3/wma) given the typical noise levels in many cars, especially high performance cars with noisy exhausts, engines, and wide high performance tires. One might be able to actually tell a difference in audio quality from different files when the car is parked and with some very expensive audio systems, but, even though I am an audiophile and have many high quality audio components at home, for me and my ears, I just want something decent sounding, somewhat above a background music quality to drown out traffic and make the trip less boring. I have owned a pretty high end car audio system (Alpine) and have heard some very expensive systems, but, unless they are at rest or played in something like a Rolls Royce which is tomb-like when moving, I won't waste my money beyond the factory "premium" systems. Sorry, I know I digressed a bit there.
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      12-21-2015, 05:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post
I called the BMW Genius Hotline this morning regarding this issue and several others I had regarding USB playback on the M235i. First of all, FLAC is not officially supported, although as others have stated and I have personally confirmed, the Harman Kardon head unit will play FLAC files through the USB port. The list of officially supported file formats is numerous, mostly related to Apple products which I don't own or use, but also mp3 and wma (Windows) formats, although I have noted that like many players, it will not play back very high bit rate wma files (haven't verified the upper limit). Probably 192 kbps wma files are a safe bet based on my experience with other players. As for the CD player, my "Genius" had to check with another, more knowledgeable Genius and their consensus was that the CD player does not downsample the 44.1/16 bit WAV files during playback, but likely DOES downsample them (as noted in the post above) when a CD is ripped to the internal hard drive for storage. As to the observed spinning of the CD briefly and then stopping while the track plays, this is likely what is known as "caching" and is actually used in some very high end music servers/players such as Aurender whereby a track or even the entire album is loaded into solid state memory and then read from there for actual playback. There are theoretical advantages to doing this, so, if the BMW head unit is doing this, it does not necessarily indicate any sort of degradation of the music. The one remaining question is whether the head unit somehow downsamples FLAC files contained on a USB drive during playback. I doubt that it does since there is little to be gained by doing so, but I have no way of proving this. I would say one more thing regarding music playback by most any audio system in most cars: generally, their is little to be gained by high quality files (as compared to mp3/wma) given the typical noise levels in many cars, especially high performance cars with noisy exhausts, engines, and wide high performance tires. One might be able to actually tell a difference in audio quality from different files when the car is parked and with some very expensive audio systems, but, even though I am an audiophile and have many high quality audio components at home, for me and my ears, I just want something decent sounding, somewhat above a background music quality to drown out traffic and make the trip less boring. I have owned a pretty high end car audio system (Alpine) and have heard some very expensive systems, but, unless they are at rest or played in something like a Rolls Royce which is tomb-like when moving, I won't waste my money beyond the factory "premium" systems. Sorry, I know I digressed a bit there.
You and I think similarly regarding car audio: perfection is impossible because of the many problems with the car environment, from the far-from-ideal 'listening room' to ambient/white noise.

That said, a good system -- clear drivers, ample (but not extreme) and clean power, tonal balance, quality programming -- can still make a huge difference in a car, particularly in the lower and higher registers. There is actually plenty to be gained by high-quality digital files if the OEM system is upgraded -- to the point to where the system sounds horrible with lower-quality files if only parts of the OEM system are upgraded. If you know anything about how compression works, you know that the more compression exists, the more ambient and/or white noise tends to replace the missing frequencies to the human ear. I won't get deep into the theory, but basically the higher the quality of programming, the less your ears are 'distracted' by less-than-perfect acoustics.

The 256Kbps downsampling for CD rips is a fact; it's in print in the manual I specified. Also, the HK and Hi-Fi head units are exactly the same; it's the drivers and outboard amp that are different. That means the DAC is the same. So don't believe that the HK system has more program-handling capability than the base stereo; it doesn't. All CD transports 'cache' to an extent; that's the nascent definition of oversampling. However, transports typically spin continuously to achieve this at varying RPMs; they don't stop and start like the transport in our HUs does. That behavior has me thinking that the HU does commit each CD file to a memory cache -- but its architecture is only set to do it at 256Kbps based on the ripping, among other things (ears, HD digital file player through the analog AUX input that bypasses the HU's DAC, etc.)
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      12-22-2015, 11:17 AM   #35
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I'm late to this thread, but are we saying that the HU *always* converts the Red Book audio from a CD to a compressed format, and then plays the compressed one, even when it's supposed to be just playing the CD rather than ripping it to the internal HDD? That's ridiculous!
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      12-22-2015, 03:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I'm late to this thread, but are we saying that the HU *always* converts the Red Book audio from a CD to a compressed format, and then plays the compressed one, even when it's supposed to be just playing the CD rather than ripping it to the internal HDD? That's ridiculous!
Correct -- or at least that appears to be the case based on several sets of ears and some A/B testing (see post #28 in this thread). It's plain to me (and, I figure, a few others) at this point that the 2-series HU is designed to produce compressed digital audio only to hide the system's substantial sonic deficiencies.
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      12-22-2015, 03:34 PM   #37
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If this true, is this something that could be correctable through a software update? And if so, could we implore BMW to provide an update?
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      12-22-2015, 04:31 PM   #38
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If this true, is this something that could be correctable through a software update? And if so, could we implore BMW to provide an update?
I doubt it. It's almost surely related to the DAC in the HU, which is likely produced by a third party and is almost certainly a chip -- though it isn't absolutely certain that it's a chip.

And, we'd need to get BMW to admit to the CD downsampling first. I'm sure it's not the only manufacturer doing it.
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      12-22-2015, 06:15 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post
I called the BMW Genius Hotline this morning regarding this issue and several others I had regarding USB playback on the M235i. First of all, FLAC is not officially supported, although as others have stated and I have personally confirmed, the Harman Kardon head unit will play FLAC files through the USB port. The list of officially supported file formats is numerous, mostly related to Apple products which I don't own or use, but also mp3 and wma (Windows) formats, although I have noted that like many players, it will not play back very high bit rate wma files (haven't verified the upper limit). Probably 192 kbps wma files are a safe bet based on my experience with other players. As for the CD player, my "Genius" had to check with another, more knowledgeable Genius and their consensus was that the CD player does not downsample the 44.1/16 bit WAV files during playback, but likely DOES downsample them (as noted in the post above) when a CD is ripped to the internal hard drive for storage. As to the observed spinning of the CD briefly and then stopping while the track plays, this is likely what is known as "caching" and is actually used in some very high end music servers/players such as Aurender whereby a track or even the entire album is loaded into solid state memory and then read from there for actual playback. There are theoretical advantages to doing this, so, if the BMW head unit is doing this, it does not necessarily indicate any sort of degradation of the music. The one remaining question is whether the head unit somehow downsamples FLAC files contained on a USB drive during playback. I doubt that it does since there is little to be gained by doing so, but I have no way of proving this. I would say one more thing regarding music playback by most any audio system in most cars: generally, their is little to be gained by high quality files (as compared to mp3/wma) given the typical noise levels in many cars, especially high performance cars with noisy exhausts, engines, and wide high performance tires. One might be able to actually tell a difference in audio quality from different files when the car is parked and with some very expensive audio systems, but, even though I am an audiophile and have many high quality audio components at home, for me and my ears, I just want something decent sounding, somewhat above a background music quality to drown out traffic and make the trip less boring. I have owned a pretty high end car audio system (Alpine) and have heard some very expensive systems, but, unless they are at rest or played in something like a Rolls Royce which is tomb-like when moving, I won't waste my money beyond the factory "premium" systems. Sorry, I know I digressed a bit there.
Great research! Thanks!
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      12-22-2015, 07:05 PM   #40
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Well, if I can add a personal note... I've had lots of cars in my life. This is my first BMW. I still have to take delivery of my car. And I'm sure I'll love driving it.

But this saga about the sound system has sure taken the bloom off the rose for me regarding BMW. It never occurred to me that this company, which has over the years acquired quite a reputation for engineering excellence, would skimp on a component system, especially one that is an option, offered at a premium price, piggybacking on a company (HK) which has its own reputation for excellence.
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      12-23-2015, 12:17 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by selmeralto View Post
Well, if I can add a personal note... I've had lots of cars in my life. This is my first BMW. I still have to take delivery of my car. And I'm sure I'll love driving it.

But this saga about the sound system has sure taken the bloom off the rose for me regarding BMW. It never occurred to me that this company, which has over the years acquired quite a reputation for engineering excellence, would skimp on a component system, especially one that is an option, offered at a premium price, piggybacking on a company (HK) which has its own reputation for excellence.
Welcome to the phenomenon of the brand boost: where the cache and past reputation of the 'brand' helps sell a product that does not meet the same standards under which that same 'brand' earned its reputation.

Harman Kardon hasn't been respected in audio circles since the mid-1990s. Why? Because it's one of the nascent companies of Harman International, which has a decades-long history of buying brands (Infinity, JBL, dbx, Mark Levinson, and most recently, Bang & Olafsen's automotive arm, among others), cheapening that brand's products, and negatively affecting that brand. About the only brands it owns that hasn't suffered this effect significantly are AKG and Lexicon, IMHO. Frankly, whenever I see HK on anything, I don't even look at it, much less consider it. There are far better options.

And BTW, BMW Geniuses frequently don't know as much about our cars as we do -- and as corporate representatives, they are fed their share of misinformation by BMW AG and BMW NA. I'm willing to bet none have any clue about what the HU's outfitted with hardware-wise.
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      12-23-2015, 01:56 PM   #42
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Welcome to the phenomenon of the brand boost: where the cache and past reputation of the 'brand' helps sell a product that does not meet the same standards under which that same 'brand' earned its reputation.

Harman Kardon hasn't been respected in audio circles since the mid-1990s. Why? Because it's one of the nascent companies of Harman International, which has a decades-long history of buying brands (Infinity, JBL, dbx, Mark Levinson, and most recently, Bang & Olafsen's automotive arm, among others), cheapening that brand's products, and negatively affecting that brand. About the only brands it owns that hasn't suffered this effect significantly are AKG and Lexicon, IMHO. Frankly, whenever I see HK on anything, I don't even look at it, much less consider it. There are far better options.

And BTW, BMW Geniuses frequently don't know as much about our cars as we do -- and as corporate representatives, they are fed their share of misinformation by BMW AG and BMW NA. I'm willing to bet none have any clue about what the HU's outfitted with hardware-wise.
Agree completely. I'm old enough to have owned a few HK pieces that were quite good. Never in the top tier - I couldn't have afforded that -- but pretty respectable.

As for what you say about the other brands, I think I'll just walk in front of a bus...
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      12-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selmeralto View Post
Agree completely. I'm old enough to have owned a few HK pieces that were quite good. Never in the top tier - I couldn't have afforded that -- but pretty respectable.

As for what you say about the other brands, I think I'll just walk in front of a bus...
Oh definitely: HK was on the cutting edge of audio and home theater through the 1970s and into the 1980s. It was only after HK was sold by one of the founders (he served in the cabinet of the Carter Administration), then reacquired HII and HK during the Reagan economic halcyon years, did it start its brand-cheapening strategy.

(Anecdote: I had a pair of pre-Harman Reference-series Infinity towers that are still the best-sounding speakers I've ever owned (my current Mission bookshelfs are close, though.) KILLED me when a roommate fried 'em to bits with overcompressed TV sound from a soccer match, 'cause I knew there was no getting another pair.)

As for BMW; it does far less of the cheapening, IMHO. But there are very few makers of anything in record-setting mass quantities these days that don't cut a few corners. All BMW's done with the 2-series stereos is hedge bets that most buyers won't notice and won't care (and most, frankly, don't).
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      12-24-2015, 04:57 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Correct -- or at least that appears to be the case based on several sets of ears and some A/B testing (see post #28 in this thread). It's plain to me (and, I figure, a few others) at this point that the 2-series HU is designed to produce compressed digital audio only to hide the system's substantial sonic deficiencies.
I am still doubtful of the HU downsampling USB audio or especially CD's during playback. For one, most commercial DAC chips that I know anything about will play at least 44.1/16bit audio which is the same as a Redbook CD. Secondly, even if the HU maker wanted to cheap out and only play compressed audio, they would still have to use a DAC chip which converted from digital to analog at a 44.1/16bit rate, since all of the commercial sources for mp3 tracks, (iTunes, Amazon, etc.) encode them at the standard CD sampling frequency and bit rate (44.1/16 bit). I still fail to see any real "gain" for the manufacturer by downsampling audio files. What is the real difference in perceived quality between playing a CD at full resolution on a "poor quality" system and playing the same CD, but downsampling the music before playing it on a "poor system". The only area where the downsampling makes any sense is in the storage of files on the limited hard drive space available to archive music in the HU. That is the same reason that iPods (when they first came out) would only play back lossy files; they simply didn't have the storage space for very many songs, especially if they were stored in a lossless format. I guess we will never know for certain, because we both know that BMW/Harman would never admit to doing this even if it were true. Personally, I find the Harman system adequate for my needs since I play my car "radio" at fairly low levels so I can hear approaching traffic, car horns, railroad crossing signals, etc.
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