[tenfour]

So, I faded the sound more to the rear speakers, as others have stated in this thread, and I must say that it definitely helps! The highs are so much clearer and I am very happy about that. The system is no where near others I've heard, but I am happier than what I was yesterday.

[XutvJet]

Man, I thought I was genius until I read that others found out the same thing. Yes, fading to the back a bit (couple of notches) and running the treble and bass at 70 to 80% makes the HK system sound much better. I've also dialed down the speed control volume to its lowest setting as well. That too helps. Streaming Pandora in the highest quality streaming setting results in really good sound quality for a $875 system, IMO. I buy all my music from Amazon thus it's all compressed MP3s which means sound quality is lost to sone extent. Even then, most songs sound good enough for me.

Would it be possible just to swap out the HK tweeters? They don't seem to be that great. FYI I am not an audiophile.

[simoneves]

(accidental and superfluous reply to 9-month-old post deleted)

[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Man, I thought I was genius until I read that others found out the same thing. Yes, fading to the back a bit (couple of notches) and running the treble and bass at 70 to 80% makes the HK system sound much better. I've also dialed down the speed control volume to its lowest setting as well. That too helps. Streaming Pandora in the highest quality streaming setting results in really good sound quality for a $875 system, IMO. I buy all my music from Amazon thus it's all compressed MP3s which means sound quality is lost to sone extent. Even then, most songs sound good enough for me.

I agree with all of that, but I actually get a lot more bass and better sound with speed control almost all the way up. When I had it at lowest setting using hi-quality Spotify downloads it was very week and treble was annoying, at highest setting the base seems to be the dominant factor and can be toned down to 2-3 notches above middle. Sounds good cruising with sunroof open at 70 on highway at middle volume. At lowest speed setting, I'd need volume up 2/3 and it still had no bass. Who knows, it's a mediocre sounds system that's for sure.

[Beartato]

To this thing's credit it works as a quality detector for music. I've had music on my thumb drive for years that I knew wasn't a exactly a high bitrate but was passable for driving, but in this car all I hear in those albums is compression artifacts.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Man, I thought I was genius until I read that others found out the same thing. Yes, fading to the back a bit (couple of notches) and running the treble and bass at 70 to 80% makes the HK system sound much better. I've also dialed down the speed control volume to its lowest setting as well. That too helps. Streaming Pandora in the highest quality streaming setting results in really good sound quality for a $875 system, IMO. I buy all my music from Amazon thus it's all compressed MP3s which means sound quality is lost to sone extent. Even then, most songs sound good enough for me.

Originally Posted by kdog26372

I actually get a lot more bass and better sound with speed control almost all the way up. When I had it at lowest setting using hi-quality Spotify downloads it was very week and treble was annoying, at highest setting the base seems to be the dominant factor and can be toned down to 2-3 notches above middle. Sounds good cruising with sunroof open at 70 on highway at middle volume. At lowest speed setting, I'd need volume up 2/3 and it still had no bass. Who knows, it's a mediocre sounds system that's for sure.

What you two are describing is a direct result of music compression -- and how even a relatively small difference in bitrate can make a huge, huge difference:

Pandora: Highest bitrate is 192kbps. Sorry XutvJet : Pandora sucks. 192kbps is lower than even the 2-series' default: 256kbps.

Spotify: Highest bitrate is 320kbps. You get that at the "Extreme" level, which is only available to full subscribers.

Xutvjet, you're having to boost bass and treble because the compression necessary to achieve that low bitrate almost completely cuts off those frequencies -- and the information at all other frequencies is missing data that gives music air. (FWIW, I consider anything under 256kbps unlistenable.) My advice: ditch it, get Spotify (see below), and opt for higher-quality files from Amazon Music -- in fact, get rid of mp3s altogether if you can. They are the devil's compression format.

kdog, 320kbps typically leaves a fair amount of ballast and girth (think 'round' and 'fat') in bass and midbass frequencies, but only to the point that they can be discernable from one another. That said, the reason why it sounds better with speed control is because the HU is raising the volume as your speed goes up -- and in the 2-series system, bass frequencies really only bloom with the volume at least halfway up. Why? Because the amp is underpowering the subs relative to the other speakers because bass frequencies need a LOT more power than other frequencies to be at the same volume.
Also, treble frequencies gain some lightness and sharpness, and the 'fuzz' that compressed music has up high is lessened considerably. But you're not going to hear a difference between, say, Neal Peart's 12-inch and 14-inch crash cymbals unless he hits them in totally different places ... or a good pinch harmonic on a mildly distorted guitar will just sound like a squeal instead of a warble ... or an octave jump on a trumpet will sound like a clown horn going off instead of a creamy, gut-scratching note.

Just say no to compressed music, gentlemen. Unless you absolutely have to.

[Beartato]

Totally. Compressed music is always a compromise for convenience. The majority of music on my thumb stick is CD-ripped 320 kbps LAME-encoded MP3s. I know AAC and WMA technically are more accurate for sound reproduction, but MP3s work with everything.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Totally. Compressed music is always a compromise for convenience. The majority of music on my thumb stick is CD-ripped 320 kbps LAME-encoded MP3s. I know AAC and WMA technically are more accurate for sound reproduction, but MP3s work with everything.

Hell: you may as well stream Spotify (and have the ConnectedDrive app) ...

Think higher. I mean, c'mon: Black works with everything. But that doesn't mean everyone should wear black ...

[kdog26372]

It is what it is. I use Spotify for the huge selection of music and for $10/month I can listen to anything I want and save the songs to my phone when I'm in poor cell or non Wi-Fi areas. The quality of sound is better than most streaming services, and I'd guess will continue to improve going forward.

Sure I could spend thousands a year on higher quality music sources, put them on a thumb drive and go that route, but it's a car with a mediocre sound system that I'm not spending $ on upgrading. The interface is pretty great and I use that same Spotify at home with a high quality integrated amp and it sounds great. I'm sure I'm missing out on the full potential of sounds, but at some point I can't spend endlessly on stuff, just as I'd love to have an even better car than an M235i, but it's better than most and fits what I'm looking for 95% of the time without breaking the bank.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Hell: you may as well stream Spotify (and have the ConnectedDrive app) ...

Think higher. I mean, c'mon: Black works with everything. But that doesn't mean everyone should wear black ...

A properly encoded 320 kbps MP3 is indistinguishable from the original CD track in the majority of audio systems, even to a trained ear. I know WMA and AAC files are technically more accurate when it comes to sound reproduction but it really boils down to human perception.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Beartato

A properly encoded 320 kbps MP3 is indistinguishable from the original CD track in the majority of audio systems, even to a trained ear. I know WMA and AAC files are technically more accurate when it comes to sound reproduction but it really boils down to human perception.

With all due respect: it's this kind of thinking that is ruining recorded music for those of us who actually really care about it.

My ear is trained. I can tell a difference. A fairly big difference -- even in the 2-series system, which is designed to suppress and sheath those very differences and has very real flaws in areas beyond the DSP, DAC, and amplification it uses.

Others can tell a difference, too. Please do not spread misinformation like this. The 'majority' attitude toward audio reproduction has already done enough damage to recording, broadcast, and reproduction standards across multiple industries related to sound and music. Some of us simply don't like that particular flavor of Kool-Aid shoved into our ears.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

With all due respect: it's this kind of thinking that is ruining recorded music for those of us who actually really care about it.

My ear is trained. I can tell a difference. A fairly big difference -- even in the 2-series system, which is designed to suppress and sheath those very differences and has very real flaws in areas beyond the DSP, DAC, and amplification it uses.

Others can tell a difference, too. Please do not spread misinformation like this. The 'majority' attitude toward audio reproduction has already done enough damage to recording, broadcast, and reproduction standards across multiple industries related to sound and music. Some of us simply don't like that particular flavor of Kool-Aid shoved into our ears.

I can tell the subtle difference, even in the H/K system, but it's not significant enough to carry a case of CDs vs one thumb drive. Just for casual listening it really doesn't matter, and that's my point. It's still accurate enough to enjoy, which goes back to my original point about the compromise with compressed music.

Lemme guess, you buy vinyls? Did you buy into that Pono music player thing too? I agree with most of your points, don't get me wrong, but you give me the impression of one of those "audiophile" types who spent way too much money on placebo-laden stereo equipment who look their nose down on MP3s and the plebeians who enjoy MP3-encoded tracks as "ruining music" as a way to justify those $1000 audio cables. Am I in the ball park? if so, you and those like-minded are ruining music. Music exists for one purpose: to enjoy. If Joey Pizzaface wants to bump some crappy pop song downloaded from iTunes off his iPhone into some Beats headphones who are we to judge?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Lemme guess, you buy vinyls?

Nope. I do own a good vintage turntable, but I rarely use it.

Originally Posted by Beartato

Did you buy into that Pono music player thing too?

Good god no. I and most other audiophiles are smarter than that. All companies like the one that produced that player need are a few adopters to be viable.

Originally Posted by Beartato

you give me the impression of one of those "audiophile" types who spent way too much money on placebo-laden stereo equipment who look their nose down on MP3s and the plebeians who enjoy MP3-encoded tracks as "ruining music" as a way to justify those $1000 audio cables. Am I in the ball park?

You're not even in the same city as the ballpark. You're right: there's a lot of snake oil in audio, and there's a lot of consumers with tons of money to spend on that oil. I am not one of them because I'm educated about it on multiple levels, not made of money, and pick my spots accordingly regarding my gear.

Originally Posted by Beartato

Music exists for one purpose: to enjoy. If Joey Pizzaface wants to bump some crappy pop song downloaded from iTunes off his iPhone into some Beats headphones who are we to judge?

I agree to the first statement 100 percent.

Thing is, the potential for enjoyment of music is diminished as the popularly accepted quality of music -- recordings, live reproduction, songwriting skill, avenues on which to share or sell music, and on and on -- deteriorate in quality. Recording is just one facet of it -- but it affects it all down the line.

Getting back to the car audio environment: I'm on the record in this forum as saying that it's far from an ideal place to listen to anything. That said, clarity, depth, quality, and power can all contribute to making what's listened to in our cars easier, less stressful on multiple fronts, and yep: more enjoyable.

But IMHO, none of that can happen at a 320kbps bitrate. Just sayin'.

[Beartato]

I wish I could give you a blind listening test between a track ripped from a CD as a 320 kbps MP3 in a great codec (LAME) and the original track from the CD, just for curiosity's sake.

[ajh77]

So I am leasing my M235i so I can't really do anything very invasive to the car, but could I have a more powerful amp put in to increase the DVD volume ?

Then have the amp taken out before I return the car

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by ajh77

So I am leasing my M235i so I can't really do anything very invasive to the car, but could I have a more powerful amp put in to increase the DVD volume ?

Then have the amp taken out before I return the car

Sure. Not sure how much of a volume increase you'll get, but changing the amp is not very hard. Takes less than an hour to put a new one in or swap the old one back.
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1218371

[clemsonkev]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

I have HK and overall the quality is meh. But i added a Sundown 1000w watt ClassD amplifier and a single 12" SA-12 sub in a ported box at 34hz and it complements it well.

I was thinking of replacing the underseat woofers with better ones to enhance midbass and add a 2 channel amp for them.

-Paul

i added a 12in sub too.... much rattle now. any ideas?

[zipphreak]

I also removed the entire rear deck and plastic panels. So I dynamat'd the hell out of my trunk with 80 mil mat.

[clemsonkev]

Originally Posted by zipphreak

I also removed the entire rear deck and plastic panels. So I dynamat'd the hell out of my trunk with 80 mil mat.

That should do it! Did you happen to photo document? Or happen to find a post from someone else?