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      05-19-2016, 02:54 PM   #45
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Not much but post 22 makes sense given that TS bushes are steel as is chassis pad that spacer face mates upto
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      05-19-2016, 04:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Not much but post 22 makes sense given that TS bushes are steel as is chassis pad that spacer face mates upto
The bushes in the F8x TSes I have appear to be aluminum. They're non-ferritic, anyway...
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      05-19-2016, 05:02 PM   #47
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Ah ok.

Look forward to your review once TS fitted
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      05-22-2016, 05:39 PM   #48
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My F8x tension struts are installed! Thanks a bunch to ICTZHP, who was in town and came over to help out, keep me company.

I can really see the difference on wheel placement: much, much better. I will verify alignment sometime soon. My guess is this may have added a little toe, and I want to run zero.

The spacers ended up being just a bit too thick, but a metal file made quick work of the issue: I ground off about half a millimeter off one side of each of the 1/2" spacers.

Here's a pic of the stock and F8x parts with a bolt holding them in the same place, to better compare lengths. The F8x tension strut is definitely longer.
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      05-22-2016, 11:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
My F8x tension struts are installed! Thanks a bunch to ICTZHP, who was in town and came over to help out, keep me company.

I can really see the difference on wheel placement: much, much better. I will verify alignment sometime soon. My guess is this may have added a little toe, and I want to run zero.

The spacers ended up being just a bit too thick, but a metal file made quick work of the issue: I ground off about half a millimeter off one side of each of the 1/2" spacers.

Here's a pic of the stock and F8x parts with a bolt holding them in the same place, to better compare lengths. The F8x tension strut is definitely longer.
Be careful with zero toe.... I did this after installing the LCA but, after 24k miles (I know 24k is not that bad) the PSS corded both front inside sides but still have some tread left in the middle and the shoulders.... I got new tires and did another alignment.... the toe before the alignment went to about 0.08 for both front tires, so I believe most of the wear got done at the beginning when I was running close to 0 toe and now they are probably wearing even but the damage was done at the beggining...

Now i did 0.04 for both front tires to be not so aggressive...

Let me know how yours are wearing out...
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      05-22-2016, 11:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
My F8x tension struts are installed! Thanks a bunch to ICTZHP, who was in town and came over to help out, keep me company.

I can really see the difference on wheel placement: much, much better. I will verify alignment sometime soon. My guess is this may have added a little toe, and I want to run zero.

The spacers ended up being just a bit too thick, but a metal file made quick work of the issue: I ground off about half a millimeter off one side of each of the 1/2" spacers.

Here's a pic of the stock and F8x parts with a bolt holding them in the same place, to better compare lengths. The F8x tension strut is definitely longer.
Hey rwalker:

I appreciate the opportunity to participate in your project today and get to talk cars with a fellow enthusiast. I hope these work out for you. I am certainly interested to hear how you like them. The finished product looked great!

Thanks again for the hospitality,
John
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      05-22-2016, 11:25 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Be careful with zero toe.... I did this after installing the LCA but, after 24k miles (I know 24k is not that bad) the PSS corded both front inside sides but still have some tread left in the middle and the shoulders.... I got new tires and did another alignment.... the toe before the alignment went to about 0.08 for both front tires, so I believe most of the wear got done at the beginning when I was running close to 0 toe and now they are probably wearing even but the damage was done at the beggining...

Now i did 0.04 for both front tires to be not so aggressive...

Let me know how yours are wearing out...
I can't get 24k out of a set of tires, maybe 12k. The car has 13k now, and I ran the stock tires down to 5-6/32" before fitting the 255s. The insides were worn more than the rest, which is why I've reduced toe with my new (~1k) MPSSes. I understand that zero static toe yields toe-out when the car's rolling, so I keep a tiny bit of toe-in.

The more I look at my car today, the more I think that using the stock tension struts with the F8x LCAs twisted the suspension geometry enough to have lowered the car. I know it's not intuitive, but I swear my ride height has increased with the F8x tension struts.

The initial mis-information we got about the length of the tension struts is really a shame. Thanks again, Pparana for saving us!
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      05-22-2016, 11:36 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
I can't get 24k out of a set of tires, maybe 12k. The car has 13k now, and I ran the stock tires down to 5-6/32" before fitting the 255s. The insides were worn more than the rest, which is why I've reduced toe with my new (~1k) MPSSes. I understand that zero static toe yields toe-out when the car's rolling, so I keep a tiny bit of toe-in.

The more I look at my car today, the more I think that using the stock tension struts with the F8x LCAs twisted the suspension geometry enough to have lowered the car. I know it's not intuitive, but I swear my ride height has increased with the F8x tension struts.

The initial mis-information we got about the length of the tension struts is really a shame. Thanks again, Pparana for saving us!
mmm... but if you wore the inside, if you reduce the toe they will wear the inside even more....

As I understand excesive toe in will wear the shoulders while excesive toe out will wear the inside.... So if inside is wearing faster you would want to less toe out or more tow in
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      05-22-2016, 11:38 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
mmm... but if you wore the inside, if you reduce the toe they will wear the inside even more....

As I understand excesive toe in will wear the shoulders while excesive toe out will wear the inside
that makes some sense... maybe I need to read up on alignment have a pointer to good resource for that?
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      05-23-2016, 12:18 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
mmm... but if you wore the inside, if you reduce the toe they will wear the inside even more....

As I understand excesive toe in will wear the shoulders while excesive toe out will wear the inside
that makes some sense... maybe I need to read up on alignment have a pointer to good resource for that?
This was pretty helpful to me

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/175
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      05-23-2016, 07:09 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
The more I look at my car today, the more I think that using the stock tension struts with the F8x LCAs twisted the suspension geometry enough to have lowered the car. I know it's not intuitive, but I swear my ride height has increased with the F8x tension struts.
RW,

Be interested to read your initial impressions of LCA + TS v LCA only once you've had sometime behind the wheel and to see BEFORE & AFTER photos to see what you mean about the ride height and wheel's position being more central in the wheel well.

Thanks in anticipation !!!

BP
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      05-24-2016, 05:39 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Be careful with zero toe.... I did this after installing the LCA but, after 24k miles (I know 24k is not that bad) the PSS corded both front inside sides but still have some tread left in the middle and the shoulders.... I got new tires and did another alignment.... the toe before the alignment went to about 0.08 for both front tires, so I believe most of the wear got done at the beginning when I was running close to 0 toe and now they are probably wearing even but the damage was done at the beggining...

Now i did 0.04 for both front tires to be not so aggressive...

Let me know how yours are wearing out...
toe wears tires (scrub), zero toe would be the least amount of wear. 24k is a lot of miles!

Most cars have toe in, so they track better on roads (straight line stability)
Zero toe can tend to follow the crowns of the roads, require lots of corrections and most people do not like it.

On a track which should be flat, zero toe is preferred, some people add some toe out but that is a whole other debate.
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      05-24-2016, 05:44 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
I can't get 24k out of a set of tires, maybe 12k. The car has 13k now, and I ran the stock tires down to 5-6/32" before fitting the 255s. The insides were worn more than the rest, which is why I've reduced toe with my new (~1k) MPSSes. I understand that zero static toe yields toe-out when the car's rolling, so I keep a tiny bit of toe-in.

The more I look at my car today, the more I think that using the stock tension struts with the F8x LCAs twisted the suspension geometry enough to have lowered the car. I know it's not intuitive, but I swear my ride height has increased with the F8x tension struts.

The initial mis-information we got about the length of the tension struts is really a shame. Thanks again, Pparana for saving us!
Glad you got them installed, I just got in the larger spacers from summit, I may chamfer the edges if they do not go in easy.

If your running camber plates, max for street tires in the front is prob, 2.3-2.5, street tire carcasses are not supportive enough to take any more and your just giving up contact patch.

You should not need toe in on the front tires of rwd cars, you need toe in in the rear, as the drive wheels toe out under acceleration and also slightly by the suspension geometry (bmw).

You may want to run a real small amount of toe in on the front if you feel the car is too "darty" for your taste on surface streets.
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      05-24-2016, 05:54 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
Glad you got them installed, I just got in the larger spacers from summit, I may chamfer the edges if they do not go in easy.
I had to knock maybe 0.5mm off the whole thing to get 'em in there, lightly tapping them in with a 3/8" socket extension and a mallet. Let us know how you fare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
If your running camber plates, max for street tires in the front is prob, 2.3-2.5, street tire carcasses are not supportive enough to take any more and your just giving up contact patch.
Interesting to note. I'll have to post a pic of what my tires look like for feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
You should not need toe in on the front tires of rwd cars, you need toe in in the rear, as the drive wheels toe out under acceleration and also slightly by the suspension geometry (bmw).

You may want to run a real small amount of toe in on the front if you feel the car is too "darty" for your taste on surface streets.
This is my understanding as well, and why I'm targeting zero toe.
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      05-24-2016, 08:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pparana View Post
toe wears tires (scrub), zero toe would be the least amount of wear. 24k is a lot of miles!

Most cars have toe in, so they track better on roads (straight line stability)
Zero toe can tend to follow the crowns of the roads, require lots of corrections and most people do not like it.

On a track which should be flat, zero toe is preferred, some people add some toe out but that is a whole other debate.
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      05-25-2016, 11:48 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
know it's not intuitive, but I swear my ride height has increased with the F8x tension struts.
Now just think about it for a minute. When changing the length of the tension strut the pivot point is the top of the MacPherson strut. With the M lower control arm and the stock tension strut you have pulled the bottom of the MacPherson strut towards the front of the car (more castor) shortening the vertical distance from the top of the MacPherson strut to the ground. With the longer M tension strut you have pushed the bottom of the MacPherson strut towards the back of the the car (less castor, closer to vertical) increasing the vertical distance from the top of the strut to the ground.

Here is a crude pictogram of the MacPherson strut looking at the side of the car, keep in mind the MacPherson strut doesn't change length when the car is static.

Short tension strut.
More castor, less vertical height
' /
/

Long tension strut
Less castor, more vertical height
|
|
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      05-26-2016, 01:14 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post
Now just think about it for a minute. When changing the length of the tension strut the pivot point is the top of the MacPherson strut. With the M lower control arm and the stock tension strut you have pulled the bottom of the MacPherson strut towards the front of the car (more castor) shortening the vertical distance from the top of the MacPherson strut to the ground. With the longer M tension strut you have pushed the bottom of the MacPherson strut towards the back of the the car (less castor, closer to vertical) increasing the vertical distance from the top of the strut to the ground.

Here is a crude pictogram of the MacPherson strut looking at the side of the car, keep in mind the MacPherson strut doesn't change length when the car is static.

Short tension strut.
More castor, less vertical height
' /
/

Long tension strut
Less castor, more vertical height
|
|
exactly, but not intuitive
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      05-27-2016, 04:28 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdputnam View Post
Now just think about it for a minute. When changing the length of the tension strut the pivot point is the top of the MacPherson strut. With the M lower control arm and the stock tension strut you have pulled the bottom of the MacPherson strut towards the front of the car (more castor) shortening the vertical distance from the top of the MacPherson strut to the ground. With the longer M tension strut you have pushed the bottom of the MacPherson strut towards the back of the the car (less castor, closer to vertical) increasing the vertical distance from the top of the strut to the ground.

Here is a crude pictogram of the MacPherson strut looking at the side of the car, keep in mind the MacPherson strut doesn't change length when the car is static.

Short tension strut.
More castor, less vertical height
' /
/

Long tension strut
Less castor, more vertical height
|
|

Not nessacarly you need to look at it in a 3 plane view x,y and z. You could be moving outward.

Either way i think just the lca upgrade is not the proper geometry as the tension struts need to ho with them.
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      05-27-2016, 06:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
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I will verify alignment sometime soon. My guess is this may have added a little toe, and I want to run zero.
I have verified that moving from stock TSes to F8x TSes didn't affect my toe, according to my tool (http://alignyourcar.com/) I'm still at just inside 10' toe in.
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      05-29-2016, 01:22 PM   #64
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I have verified that moving from stock TSes to F8x TSes didn't affect my toe, according to my tool (http://alignyourcar.com/) I'm still at just inside 10' toe in.
RW

Has camber and track changed since fitting TS's ?

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      05-29-2016, 03:20 PM   #65
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Quote:
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RW

Has camber and track changed since fitting TS's ?

BP
hard for me to check track, I don't have a before measurement...

I'll check camber later today, but I'm not expecting a difference
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      05-29-2016, 04:10 PM   #66
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hard for me to check track, I don't have a before measurement...
Do the front wheels have more chance to rub (ie poke out further) with LCAs and TSs compared to just LCAs
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