[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by riccappa

From Tire Rack:
Tire Rack
2 weeks ago

"We are just a few weeks away from our formal winter test. However, winter's arrival in South Bend during December '13 provided our first opportunity to experience the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 in the snow on our test track. On well-packed snow the Pilot Sport A/S 3 could not quite match the traction of its predecessor (Pilot Sport A/S Plus), and when driving through several inches of loose snow its acceleration, braking and cornering traction was noticeably challenged. This appears to be the trade-off for the Pilot Sport A/S 3's exceptional dry and wet performance."

There's a video on youtube about those, and they did get rave reviews in dry and wet conditions even in very cold temperatures, which is commendable, and they are the new benchmark, but they just can't substitute a good winter or snow tire.

I think it's a regional decision. I have no use for pure winter tires, but I have been severely hindered with both cold and light snow when trying to get around on PS2's and PS3's, never mind something like my old Kumho MX's (which were scary in the rain and just useless below 40 degrees F. My point was only that the A/S 3 can handle light snow much better than a pure summer tire while giving up very little, if anything in dry and wet performance in warmer temps.

It's no substitute for snow tires, but for those of us that don't need two sets of tires, it's a great solution. If I were still working in Frankfurt or somewhere similar, I'd never try to use A/S 3's year round, but for those of us that only get occasional snow, they're pretty good and for these purposes certainly dispel the "good at nothing" label all season tires tend to carry.

[Cosa Nostra]

OK where to begin... As the OP, here we go... First and foremost you guys (and gals if any) are the best - always looking to help others!

Some really interesting suggestions put forth. If you want 19s (usually OK for most drivers unless you drive like a maniac in which case you can crack them) then opting for A/S for the winter is a novel approach. I'd love to have 19s albeit their expensive. However, let me clarify that IMHO for winter driving in Toronto (yes that's where I live) you're much better off buying a set of aftermarket aluminum rims w winter tires (I already have a set from previous car, which I'll either reuse or sell and replace new, and yes you're absolutely right it costs about $1,800 CAD). One cannot risk damaging ones "baby" even in GTA moderate winters w/o the performance of winter tires. Yes, you can absolutely get away with A/S for the first winter, but after that not a good idea.

As for x-drive, my experience w my father's 328xi is that x-drive isn't all its cracked-up to be. In most instances the car drives pretty much like a RWD anyway (i.e., 60/40 power to back/front wheels). It only helps the car to get going better in snow - no improvement in steering, turning or stopping, and it adds 150+lbs of weight. The car actually got stuck in our driveway when there was heavy snow w all 4 wheels spinning (maybe the snow was lifting the car body itself but I don't think that was the case) - I was not impressed - stuck in one's own driveway w x-drive - imagine that! I'd stick w/o x-drive to save $ and get better performance, and go w winter tires for winter.

I've also been told by my Dealer that regrettably non-RFT's (preferable to RFTs, which have a slightly rougher ride and wear more quickly) are not available as an option for Canada. RFTs are OK though so not a deal-breaker, especially if the car (M235i) in this case has lots of power, which it does. According to Jim Kenzie RFTs are OK provided car has sufficient power, and I've had no problems w them in my past two cars (other than a bit of premature wear).

My focus now is whether to opt for A/S or summer tires for the summer. If above comment that one can get only 10K miles (say 16K km) out of a set of summer tires is true, that's not good at all and would require buying at least one more set for say $1K. If its more like 30K miles (say 48K km) then that's not too bad at all and I'm all for it. I've always understood that summer tires will outperform A/S in summer, and although I am a spirited driver, I certainly don't drive on a track or do crazy cornering, I merely like to drive straight a little on the fast side. I also don't like the fact if its true that the speed will be limited if I go w A/S (even though I'd never drive at 130MPH anyway). I'm leaning towards the summer tires, on the presumption that an OEM dealer can replace the rubber when required w/o damaging the OEM rims (something that happened to me when I had a nail puncture fixed by Superior Tire on my last car). Can anyone assure me that replacing tires w new ones won't damage the rims if I use an OEM dealer to do the work? A friend told me that OEM dealers use better equipment to prevent making contact w the rim, albeit I can't imagine Superior Tire not having this too. Anyway, I'd appreciate any further insight from you all. You are all the BEST and I'm proud to consider you all my consultants and friends.

P.S. In closing, BMW should offer winter tires as an option for their OEM standard rims, that way if we don't like the rims we can opt to have winter tires put on them, and then go out and buy a set of aftermarket rims w summer tires that we do like LOL! Of course winter tires are cheaper than summer or A/S tires, so they'd have to recognize this in the price of the car. Will never happen though...

[riccappa]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I think it's a regional decision. I have no use for pure winter tires, but I have been severely hindered with both cold and light snow when trying to get around on PS2's and PS3's, never mind something like my old Kumho MX's (which were scary in the rain and just useless below 40 degrees F. My point was only that the A/S 3 can handle light snow much better than a pure summer tire while giving up very little, if anything in dry and wet performance in warmer temps.

It's no substitute for snow tires, but for those of us that don't need two sets of tires, it's a great solution. If I were still working in Frankfurt or somewhere similar, I'd never try to use A/S 3's year round, but for those of us that only get occasional snow, they're pretty good and for these purposes certainly dispel the "good at nothing" label all season tires tend to carry.

+1 with all this.

[Cosa Nostra]

Is it true that in Canada if we order the summer performance tires (I know they only come in RFTS) that they won't be Michelin PSS? What the heck brand will they be?

[ska///235i]

I have xdrive and bridgestone so call high performance AS tires...yes i can get anywhere i want here in new england winters but its the braking that i fear

Next rwd car will have dedicated snow tires

[basiluf]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Well written post.
For the record, I never said bald tires are better than new tires, I said rather that they are perfectly fine well beyond the wear mark as long as conditions are dry.

This was all in response to the dude that replaces his summers every 10K miles

That's great if you live in the SW US, but that won't work in Florida where it rains almost every day in the summer. My tires on my M3 were not even bald yet at 2+ years and 20k miles but I still replaced them when I felt safety was beginning to be compromised in the rainy season.

[Ramos]

Correct, I live in San Diego where it rarely rains. 20K miles is reasonable, 10K miles is definitely not.

Also the Pilot super sports are supposed to last a lot longer than any other summer tire.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Correct, I live in San Diego where it rarely rains. 20K miles is reasonable, 10K miles is definitely not.

Also the Pilot super sports are supposed to last a lot longer than any other summer tire.

45k miles if you can rotate them, 22.5k if they're staggered and can't be rotated. I got similar wear on my PS2s as I did on PSSs.

[Cosa Nostra]

Sadly we Canadians will apparently never see Michelin Pilot Super Sports or whatever they're called, rather we likely get Bridgestones. Also, if opting for summer tires, the rims usually come staggered (for sportier appearance) meaning can't rotate the tires for longer wear. However, on the positive side, the best way to avoid the ugly standard 18" rims (and sadly, yes, they are even uglier in person), a salesman suggested simply paying an extra $500 to $1K to upgrade to 19" rims (w summer tires) straight from the factory, and then to purchase aftermarket rims (and winter tires) for winter. I think this is the best option for us all! He promises to send me the rim options and prices tomorrow.

[greengoose]

Originally Posted by Greg007

Sadly we Canadians will apparently never see Michelin Pilot Super Sports or whatever they're called, rather we likely get Bridgestones. Also, if opting for summer tires, the rims usually come staggered (for sportier appearance) meaning can't rotate the tires for longer wear. However, on the positive side, the best way to avoid the ugly standard 18" rims (and sadly, yes, they are even uglier in person), a salesman suggested simply paying an extra $500 to $1K to upgrade to 19" rims (w summer tires) straight from the factory, and then to purchase aftermarket rims (and winter tires) for winter. I think this is the best option for us all! He promises to send me the rim options and prices tomorrow.

Where did you hear this? I received confirmation directly from BMW Canada that the M235i will come with Michelin Pilot Super Sports tires if you don't opt for the run flat a/s option. Also - there is currently no option "from the factory" to pay an extra $500-$1k to option out a 19" wheel on the M235i - perhaps down the line this may be offered but not at the moment...

[Cosa Nostra]

Originally Posted by greengoose

Where did you hear this? I received confirmation directly from BMW Canada that the M235i will come with Michelin Pilot Super Sports tires if you don't opt for the run flat a/s option. Also - there is currently no option "from the factory" to pay an extra $500-$1k to option out a 19" wheel on the M235i - perhaps down the line this may be offered but not at the moment...

Re point#1, the Toronto Auto show car I believe had the standard 18s w Bridgestone summer tires? And my understanding is u can't order non-RFTs at all for Canada. So it's news to me that u can opt for summer tire w Michelin PSS on 18s or 19s or whatever in Cda. Thx for the tip though cause I'm gonna try to order summers in 19s w Michelin PSS (even if it means going w RFTs).

Re point #2, you're probably right, albeit the option will be avail likely as salesman promises to send me the prices for upgrades today - I'll keep u posted.

[SmallTownBoy]

I'm very interested in what you hear back on this.

Based on what my CA says and my own read of the pricing sheets and the CAD configurator, there is currently no option for 19" wheels nor for any type of non-RFT (incl. the Mich. PSS), whether summer or a/s.

[jeffclev]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Well written post.
For the record, I never said bald tires are better than new tires, I said rather that they are perfectly fine well beyond the wear mark as long as conditions are dry.

This was all in response to the dude that replaces his summers every 10K miles

I have been running the pilot super sports - 28k mile so far. I was one of those getting 10k out tires like Yokahama Advan Neova A07s. The Pilots are 40% cheaper with nearly the same performance as the Advans. Can't go wrong with the Pilots in my opinion.

[greengoose]

Originally Posted by Greg007

Re point#1, the Toronto Auto show car I believe had the standard 18s w Bridgestone summer tires? And my understanding is u can't order non-RFTs at all for Canada. So it's news to me that u can opt for summer tire w Michelin PSS on 18s or 19s or whatever in Cda. Thx for the tip though cause I'm gonna try to order summers in 19s w Michelin PSS (even if it means going w RFTs).

Re point #2, you're probably right, albeit the option will be avail likely as salesman promises to send me the prices for upgrades today - I'll keep u posted.

I know for a fact I ordered mine with Michelin Pilot Super Sports, non run flat in 18". There are only 2 options right now - 18" MPSS tires or 18" All Season Run Flats. Simple as that - no 19" upgrade at the moment from the factory. I will most likely buy a set of aftermarket 19's for it though as well.

[SmallTownBoy]

You should double-check that with your dealer. My info is based on the Canadian Order Guide posted here (apparently released by Town & Country in Mississauga). That Guide is consistent with all the info my CA pulls up on his order screen.

The standard M235i wheel/tire is Code 2PG: perf RFT, wheel style 436M.

The only other option for this model is Code 2TR, which is the same wheel with an a/s RFT, and which deletes the high-speed limiter.

I've asked my CA to check this twice, and he confirms this info - no way to order the Michelin PSS.

[CMDRRET]

My request for comment/information may only be slightly germane to this discussion thread, but I'm nearing the time that my 228i with M Sport will move from order processing into production phase and I'm concerned about the tires that I will have purchased. I've experienced Summer tires in other cars I've owned, and I'd prefer the A/S on this one.
I was told by the sales rep that I couldn't order A/S tires in the non-staggered configuration with a car that included M Sport. Does anyone have any experience with their own 2-series order that might offer an alternative way of allowing for the A/S? Thanks.

[Wheelwright]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

I've asked my CA to check this twice, and he confirms this info - no way to order the Michelin PSS.

I live in Canada, requested PSS and the dealer said that BMW agreed to provide those tires (I don't have tire type specified in the contract though so the dealer may wiggle out if he was BSing me to make the sale).

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by greengoose

Where did you hear this? I received confirmation directly from BMW Canada that the M235i will come with Michelin Pilot Super Sports tires if you don't opt for the run flat a/s option. Also - there is currently no option "from the factory" to pay an extra $500-$1k to option out a 19" wheel on the M235i - perhaps down the line this may be offered but not at the moment...

You are quite correct on both counts. Don't know where this Greg is getting his info (on tires and wheels amongst other things) but if it's a BMW dealer, he's been duped. Nothing I hate more than a stupid CA who'll do nothing but their best to deceive naive clients.

So let me and Greengoose make this clear, as I alluded to a page back; you WILL be able to order your M235 with Super Sports. And if you want BMW branded 19's you'll have to splurge for M Performance rims which WILL NOT be "$500 to $1000" extra. $2k + for the set would be more like it.

[SmallTownBoy]

I don't know about Greg, but my info comes straight from the order guide. I'd like nothing better than to be proven wrong on this, since I'd prefer the Michelin PSS.

So maybe you or goose can post or pm me the contact info for your dealer and the option code for the non-RFT Michelins, 'cos the standard 2PG is def RFT summer perf and the optional 2TR is def a/s RFT.

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

I don't know about Greg, but my info comes straight from the order guide. I'd like nothing better than to be proven wrong on this, since I'd prefer the Michelin PSS.

So maybe you or goose can post or pm me the contact info for your dealer and the option code for the non-RFT Michelins, 'cos the standard 2PG is def RFT summer perf and the optional 2TR is def a/s RFT.

Will do, I'll get in touch with my dealer or BMW Canada to confirm it. BMW order guides are notoriously awful so don't put your faith in them. Keep in mind that these cars (the M135/M235) have been developed with & tuned to run on the PSS's and BMW wouldn't water down the new M-Perf brand by throwing on a set of Bridgestone runflats arbitrarily....unless a customer actually wanted them.

[SmallTownBoy]

Thanks Mark.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

I have xdrive and bridgestone so call high performance AS tires...yes i can get anywhere i want here in new england winters but its the braking that i fear

Next rwd car will have dedicated snow tires

totally understand that - I didn't "spring" for them on my first E92 and I know I lost 5 years off my life that winter.

I have since had 2 sets of Blizzaks for my second E92 and both 135s. I can usually get roughly 3 seasons out of them, which I consider pretty good.

Sometimes you can find deals on them if you buy in the warm months too, making it an even easier decision.