[2017M240i]

Hi All,

In January I purchased a slightly used certified BMW M240I which they claimed had been an executive lease which they acquired directly from BMW auction. This was from Bill Jacobs in IL. I was assured it was clean with no damage Etc. I hired an inspection company to inspect the car also. Then it was shipped to me in TX. I had minor rub damage to the rear bumper repaired recently at a good body shop. The owner showed me how the rear panel on one side had been repainted and that the work was not good (sanding lines, dirt in the paint). BMW won't help. The certification means nothing. Does anyone have ideas about what I should do? The dealership won't return my calls. I'd like to know the history of the vehicle, what actually caused the damage, and have them pay for the repainting of that panel.

Thanks,

Ken

[liebetrau88]

The way I understand it is that the dealerships are allowed to fix the car if there is any damage and it can still be a certified car(up to a certain extent) I don't know whether or not they are required to tell you about any work they do though. It could be how you worded the question as well depending on what you actually asked. Did you ask about past damage? Or just whether or not it currently had any damage?

[2017M240i]

I asked about past damage. I made it clear I did not want a car that had any body work or non-factory paint as this will diminish value on trade in. If the car had actually been hit it should have also been reflected on Carfax, which is was not.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by 2017M240i

I asked about past damage. I made it clear I did not want a car that had any body work or non-factory paint as this will diminish value on trade in. If the car had actually been hit it should have also been reflected on Carfax, which is was not.

I'd ask or search for articles by Steve Lehto consumer car advisor who has had past articles on Jalopnik.

If I had to guess, cause I have no legal background -
unless you have your pre purchase request in writing and a reply (documentation) confirming - not much you can do. But I would certainly use social media to describe your concern that the dealership is not responding back to you. And I would describe the issue in detail on social media that details the purchasing process and bodyshop confirmation of damage - though u need to be confident the car wasn't repaired at the port before shipping to the dealer?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by 2017M240i

I asked about past damage. I made it clear I did not want a car that had any body work or non-factory paint as this will diminish value on trade in. If the car had actually been hit it should have also been reflected on Carfax, which is was not.

Didn't you request a carfax ?

[hwntime]

Per BMW website:

"Only the best pre-owned BMWs qualify for the BMW Certified Pre-Owned Program. To be eligible for enrollment in the Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle Program, a late-model vehicle must have more than 300 miles but less than 60,000 miles on the odometer.

They must pass an extensive examination and a thorough and rigorous inspection by BMW factory-trained technicians. They inspect the vehicle for safety, performance and wear. If something is not right, it is fixed. If it cannot be fixed, the vehicle cannot become a Certified Pre-Owned BMW.

In short, we're picky. But when you see everything covered under our Protection Plan, you'll understand why.

Every Certified Pre-Owned BMW also comes with a vehicle history report so you know it's maintenance history at the time of certification."

I believe they're required to give you the entire history. So, threaten to go to BMW NA if they don't. It's clearly stated on the official BMW website. Good luck!

[paposalsa]

My car was not CPO but the Dealer provided the CARFAX and still has the reminder of the factory warranty.

I still found an excuse for the BMW dealer to do a complete inspection. They found out that the parking sensor were not working correctly. Come to find out that the Dealer had painted the front bumper (shitty paint job) and damaged the sensor. This was not disclosed to me.

However the Dealer did right, replaced the sensors and redid the paint job which came out real good ....

But I was ready to do a BBB Complaint

[CP911]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Didn't you request a carfax ?

Carfax doesn't show what hasn't been reported.

There are most definitely body shops out there taking on work under agreement to not report damage. It sucks, but it's true. This could have easily been damage done by the first owner that was covered up before it was even CPO'ed. If that was the case, then the dealership/BMW could claim ignorance to ever knowing the damage was there to begin with. Even if the car arrived with apparent damage when they took it in for the CPO process, I'd be surprised if they have any legal obligation to report anything when the original owner never filed an official accident report to begin with. I imagine some cars arrive with minor dents and dings and some with entire panels smashed in. Who decides what type of damage warrants full disclosure, especially if they don't really know what happened to it?

I also highly doubt CPO vehicles are actually inspected that thoroughly most of the time. The receiving trade-in dealer probably just changes the oil and tires, sends it to their contracted body shop and/or detailer nearby for a crappy, rushed job to make it look decent upon first glance on the lot, and calls it a day.

OP - I feel for you. I hope things work out for the best, but for now, I'd continue to keep calm and pursue the dealership to make things right. If that doesn't work, you could always call a few consumer lawyers to see what they have to say about your situation. As someone else already mentioned, taking to social media can sometimes help as well. Best of luck!

[stevenvillatoro]

The OP paid a company to inspect the car on his behalf, and that could potentially be the OP's greatest recourse. If the company were to have had a duty to discover evidence of prior physical damage, but failed to do so, then they would have been remiss. They were paid to protect the buyer, no?

[Zwei]

In some cases cars are damaged prior to first arrival at a dealership. Repairs to them precede the first sale and are never reported.

CPO cars are supposed to have no bad stories...

[Sail Boat]

The BMW CPO program will certify cars even if they had minor bodywork. In fact my dealership made it very clear before I had purchased my car that almost every car in the CPO program is given some sort of cosmetic treatment.

If I understand your story, it appears that the PO side swiped something and had it repaired under the radar - perhaps it was to prevent his employer, BMW, from finding out?

In any case, I called my dealer and they assured me that if any "major" damage is uncovered, they would foot the bill for repairs since it is something the CPO department overlooked.

Could you send a picture of the bodywork? I assume since you didn't spot it initially, it probably isn't terrible? You may end up fighting with the dealer's moral compass.

[2017M240i]

I have already called BMW. They won’t provide me with any history. They said they’d call the dealership. Dealership is ignoring me. It took them 9 months of constant reminders to send me the second key. To be clear, BMW CPO means nothing, and BMW doesn’t stand behind certifications. They tell me to sue the dealership.

The issue with any car that has been painted is that on trade in you can be sure they’ll take a meter to it and rip you off on trade in.

I’ve contacted BBB and the attorney general. As to social media, what outlets would you suggest?

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by 2017M240i

I have already called BMW. They won’t provide me with any history. They said they’d call the dealership. Dealership is ignoring me. It took them 9 months of constant reminders to send me the second key. To be clear, BMW CPO means nothing, and BMW doesn’t stand behind certifications. They tell me to sue the dealership.

The issue with any car that has been painted is that on trade in you can be sure they’ll take a meter to it and rip you off on trade in.

I’ve contacted BBB and the attorney general. As to social media, what outlets would you suggest?

Get an independent appraiser to assess diminished value (DV) and use that in small claims court.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Dealers will sometime try and pass off CPO cars with issues, it happened to my girlfriend when she bought her 2013 135i. Dealer didn't disclose that they replaced the windshield with a non-OEM one, and the installation was poor, glue ran off to the A pillars causing weird seals etc. This caused excess wind noise. She bought the car in South Carolina and we drove it to California.

When she took it to dealer here for a windnoise complaint they informed her it was an aftermarket windshield, with a botched install. Long story short, it took a few months of battling between BMW NA, local dealer, and Hendrick BMW of Charleston South Carolina. They ended up paying for a brand new OEM windshield, new A pillar trim, and installation.

If the repair was botched or anything you don't like I would get it appraised and say they did not disclose the accident to you etc. BMW of NA can help you out, they cannot exactly force a dealer to do anything, but if the dealer knows whats good for them, they will comply.

[2017M240i]

BMW has not been willing to help me at all. How did you get them to help you with the windshield issue? They basically told me to sue the dealership.

[BEM-S4]

Sounds like it's time to get your personal attorney involved. At this point you're obviously not going to accomplish anything on your own.

Sometimes a letter is all it takes to resolve these things.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Originally Posted by 2017M240i

BMW has not been willing to help me at all. How did you get them to help you with the windshield issue? They basically told me to sue the dealership.

That is surprising, they were pretty helpful to my girlfriend. Maybe ask to speak to someone else? But yeah I guess next step is speak to an attorney

edit: I mean she did bring up the fact that her family has been long time BMW customers. Her dad has been buying bimmers since the 80s, and she has bought 3 of them herself from new, but I would imagine it also depends on how much legwork the BMW NA employee wants to put in unfortunately.

Try them again, try and make your case politely, but the problem is, in her case she just wanted rick hendrick to pay for repairs. In your case it might be more difficult, because you need to determine DV, or whether you want a buyback etc.

[Joeybagadonuts]

Hi all, new here

I'm looking at some CPO 2017 240s now and am wondering what advice you all might have. Reading stories like this make me nervous...and feel bad for "2017M240i". What can I do on the front end, especially since most of the cars I'm finding are no where near where I live?

[CP911]

Originally Posted by Joeybagadonuts

Hi all, new here

I'm looking at some CPO 2017 240s now and am wondering what advice you all might have. Reading stories like this make me nervous...and feel bad for "2017M240i". What can I do on the front end, especially since most of the cars I'm finding are no where near where I live?

Buy a handheld paint meter, learn how to use it, and take that with you to the dealership to check all the panels. Of course, you'll want to get their permission first. The front bumper is almost always going to be resprayed, unless you catch it within the first week or so after a trade-in.

If you don't feel comfortable with that scenario or if you can't go see the car yourself, you can always pay for a 3rd party pre-purchase inspection and ask them to focus extra well on possible paintwork/body work. See if you can get them to guarantee their work in writing so that when it arrives, everything checks out on your end as well. P.s. Never go with the PPI company recommended by any seller. I've been burned before going that route as the company and out-of-state seller were in bed together. People are shady as hell these days. Find your own reliable PPI somehow.

Good luck and happy hunting!

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Didn't you request a carfax ?

Car fax means nothing.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by 2017M240i

BMW has not been willing to help me at all. How did you get them to help you with the windshield issue? They basically told me to sue the dealership.

CPO Program allows for certain body damage repair. They have strict guidelines as to what kind and extent of damage disqualifies the car from certification (Like frame damage). But body repair involving a door, a fender or a new bumper cover is perfectly acceptable under their guidelines.

I believe there is also a threshold when it comes to amount of repairs before these have to be legally disclosed to the would be buyer.

For all we know, the repair on that panel could have been a scratch and not necessarily accident body work, albeit poorly done.

The guidelines of course are left up to each individual dealer to enforce them or not. This is why I don't buy slightly used cars if I can not inspect them myself or have someone of my complete trust put the car on lift for a complete inspection.

Sorry this happened to you, but this is a learning lesson. Never trust anyone to inspect a car for you if you are not present. Another takeaway is to never trust Carfax as an infallible source of vehicle history information. It has been proven time and time again that CarFax is not to be taken as gospel.

Last but not least, CPO doesn't mean perfection. A CPO is still an used car and should be approach with the same level of caution as any other used car.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Sounds like it's time to get your personal attorney involved. At this point you're obviously not going to accomplish anything on your own.

Sometimes a letter is all it takes to resolve these things.

Good advice. But remember the car is now your problem since you accepted it and signed over the papers. Always, always inspect the car yourself or have a trusted mechanic put the thing on a lift. A prepurchase inspection can save you thousands and many headaches down the road.