[Nexus313]

Hi guys..

Just recently picked up a M235i with iDrive and Hifi Stereo. The previous owner had the BT audio coded in which is great!

However, I'm using my Google Pixel 2 to play music and something feels off with the audio settings.. I'm coming from an 09 335i Msport with iDrive and I was able to fine tune the EQ through idrive in more depth, where as on this car there's only 4 options to change in the tone settings (Bass, Treble, Fader, Balance) .. Where can I find the actual equalizer?.. is it even an option?

It's almost like the iDrive system is automatically adjusting my audio... For example, If I'm listening to a song with a lot of bass kicks (hip hop), the vocals go really quiet and then when the bass stops in the song, the vocals go loud again.. Its like the damn thing is constantly adjusting on its own! It's not consistent like my old car.

I've tried changing to AUX instead of Bluetooth, no difference. Turned up volume on my phone too. Any suggestions on what I can do? Is this a normal thing with these cars?

[Maine1]

I just got into an M235 with premium HK audio, and find the same deficiency. You would think they would have more than bass and treble on the iDrive. Used to get at least that much on old AM radios!

[Viffermike]

Nexus313 and Maine1 : This has all been discussed seven ways to Sunday in this subforum; please 'dig' a little.

The nutshell:
- All 2 Series audio, including the HK, is analog. There is no 'advanced' user-adjustable system such as the Logic7 fiber-optic system used in BMW 3 Series and up HK audio.
- All 2 Series audio, including the HK, features basic tone controls only.
- All 2 Series audio, including the HK, is geared to and tuned for low-quality compressed digital programming. This basically means that digital signal processing is applied to boost frequencies in the middle of the sonic spectrum and cut them in the low and high regions of the same spectrum. The minute one tries to play music, etc. of either higher quality or with substantial bass and treble content, the system's shortcomings become more evident.

[Jerich0]

Hello Mike...

Does replacing the amp get rid of all the processing and gets you a flat signal?

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Jerich0

Hello Mike...

Does replacing the amp get rid of all the processing and gets you a flat signal?

You also need to consider feeding analog into the system either with aux in if you have it or directly to amp if you don't. Otherwise the BMW gear will still do conversion.

So you analog in, set factory to flat then adjust at the new amp. That's the best way to go.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You also need to consider feeding analog into the system either with aux in if you have it or directly to amp if you don't. Otherwise the BMW gear will still do conversion.

So you analog in, set factory to flat then adjust at the new amp. That's the best way to go.

Yep.

That said, Jerich0 , yes: Adding an amp thankfully makes most of the analog signal flat since the OEM amp is where most DSP is applied. Key word is 'most' because the analog signal coming from the head unit is of an unusually low voltage -- it barely qualifies as line level -- which suggests that the electronics inside the HU are not of the greatest quality and probably are not very high in fidelity.

But an amp 'levels the playing field' as well as anything can in a 2 Series, short of replacing the entire audio system.

[Jerich0]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Yep.

That said, Jerich0 , yes: Adding an amp thankfully makes most of the analog signal flat since the OEM amp is where most DSP is applied. Key word is 'most' because the analog signal coming from the head unit is of an unusually low voltage -- it barely qualifies as line level -- which suggests that the electronics inside the HU are not of the greatest quality and probably are not very high in fidelity.

But an amp 'levels the playing field' as well as anything can in a 2 Series, short of replacing the entire audio system.

That is great to hear.

Most modern day cars you have to get the signal after the amp at high level and de equalize and all that savagery.

Getting a low level signal without EQ is the best anyone can hope for in a modern day cars.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Jerich0

That is great to hear.

Most modern day cars you have to get the signal after the amp at high level and de equalize and all that savagery.

Getting a low level signal without EQ is the best anyone can hope for in a modern day cars.

I'll go one further: On my current car (Porsche 718), the base stereo's output is also analog -- one of the reasons I opted for it. However, the amps are is inside the head unit, and not only is DSP applied before the output stage (and at speaker level, to boot) ...

... wait for it ...

... but DSP changes the tone depending on source, volume, fader, and other selections.

IOW, I can't install DSP to either equalize or shape, no matter what I add after the head unit. I'm limited to an amp and speakers.

GRRRR!

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'll go one further: On my current car (Porsche 718), the base stereo's output is also analog -- one of the reasons I opted for it. However, the amps are is inside the head unit, and not only is DSP applied before the output stage (and at speaker level, to boot) ...

... wait for it ...

... but DSP changes the tone depending on source, volume, fader, and other selections.

IOW, I can't install DSP to either equalize or shape, no matter what I add after the head unit. I'm limited to an amp and speakers.

GRRRR!

OP, if you're using the google play app on your Pixel double check the built-in equalizer isn't using some funky preset. Just a thought

[Jerich0]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'll go one further: On my current car (Porsche 718), the base stereo's output is also analog -- one of the reasons I opted for it. However, the amps are is inside the head unit, and not only is DSP applied before the output stage (and at speaker level, to boot) ...

... wait for it ...

... but DSP changes the tone depending on source, volume, fader, and other selections.

IOW, I can't install DSP to either equalize or shape, no matter what I add after the head unit. I'm limited to an amp and speakers.

GRRRR!

Yep... but you might be able to get away with this.

In VAG and FOMOCO cars there is way to code your HU to output flat low level signal, in your Porsche current setting should be high level output for no external amp, you need diagnostics equipment and change the setting to external amp and you should be all set.

[Nexus313]

Using spotify via bluetooth...

Does anyone have a nice amp they would recommend to fix the issue? so far I've seen Bimmertech amp.

[BEM-S4]

You're using Spotify via BT and bitching about audio quality? Hmmm... might want to rethink that as a start.

[wntrsnowg]

I replaced the stock hifi amp with a JL xd600/6 and tuned the gain according to JL instructions (using a volt meter). There was a lot of white noise and I had to turn the JL amp gain down to make it less obtrusive. This car has a lot of noise in the audio stream from the car system sounds (door chimes, etc) that are injected into the signal path before the amp.

I also have the asd autoteknic harness.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Jerich0

Yep... but you might be able to get away with this.

In VAG and FOMOCO cars there is way to code your HU to output flat low level signal, in your Porsche current setting should be high level output for no external amp, you need diagnostics equipment and change the setting to external amp and you should be all set.

Yep (Hey! Is there an echo? LOL) ... looking into that now. Fortunately the meat of the car's OS has been in use in Audis and Macans for a few years. Not keen on coding a Porsche, though; almost no one does it for some very good reasons.

[Jerich0]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

Using spotify via bluetooth...

Does anyone have a nice amp they would recommend to fix the issue? so far I've seen Bimmertech amp.

Match UP 7 bmw is the amp you need!

[Nexus313]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You're using Spotify via BT and bitching about audio quality? Hmmm... might want to rethink that as a start.

I tried AUX cable.. No difference.. Whats wrong with spotify?

Im not an audiophile.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

I tried AUX cable.. No difference.. Whats wrong with spotify?

Im not an audiophile.

This has been discussed in other threads:

- Spotify's max bitrate is 320kBPS -- IF you pay the monthly subscription fee. That's barely a fourth of CD quality. Other than Tidal and a couple of other 'niche' streaming services, this is the highest bitrate available in a streaming service.
- Bluetooth, as used in the 2 Series, is not capable of high-bitrate music streaming -- and where it is, a 'handshake' codec such as aptX must be used. (Handshake = both source and processor need to be able to encode/decode the codec).
- Which Aux input did you use: analog (3.5mm stereo jack) or USB? Huge, HUGE differences between the two. Basically, one can only feed high-resolution material though the analog 3.5mm input.
- The 2 Series audio system is tuned to reproduce low-bitrate programming acceptably. The fidelity is so poor that the majority of listeners won't be able to tell the difference between it and higher-bitrate material through the OEM system.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

This has been discussed in other threads:

- Spotify's max bitrate is 320kBPS -- IF you pay the monthly subscription fee. That's barely a fourth of CD quality. Other than Tidal and a couple of other 'niche' streaming services, this is the highest bitrate available in a streaming service.
- Bluetooth, as used in the 2 Series, is not capable of high-bitrate music streaming -- and where it is, a 'handshake' codec such as aptX must be used. (Handshake = both source and processor need to be able to encode/decode the codec).
- Which Aux input did you use: analog (3.5mm stereo jack) or USB? Huge, HUGE differences between the two. Basically, one can only feed high-resolution material though the analog 3.5mm input.
- The 2 Series audio system is tuned to reproduce low-bitrate programming acceptably. The fidelity is so poor that the majority of listeners won't be able to tell the difference between it and higher-bitrate material through the OEM system.

Good information - in other words garbage in / garbage out. And in this case the garbage gets even dirtier in the process before it comes out.

[Nexus313]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

This has been discussed in other threads:

- Spotify's max bitrate is 320kBPS -- IF you pay the monthly subscription fee. That's barely a fourth of CD quality. Other than Tidal and a couple of other 'niche' streaming services, this is the highest bitrate available in a streaming service.
- Bluetooth, as used in the 2 Series, is not capable of high-bitrate music streaming -- and where it is, a 'handshake' codec such as aptX must be used. (Handshake = both source and processor need to be able to encode/decode the codec).
- Which Aux input did you use: analog (3.5mm stereo jack) or USB? Huge, HUGE differences between the two. Basically, one can only feed high-resolution material though the analog 3.5mm input.
- The 2 Series audio system is tuned to reproduce low-bitrate programming acceptably. The fidelity is so poor that the majority of listeners won't be able to tell the difference between it and higher-bitrate material through the OEM system.

Wow.. Ok so the Google pixel 2 XL doesn't have a 3.5mm stereo jack.. it has a type C port only. So I used a type C to 3.5mm converter. I guess that's why aux sucked too.

So touching on your last point.. that would mean regardless of what I try the 2 series will always have crappy bitrate capabilities.

Im getting used to the audio system now though.. I have a somewhat decent setting via Bluetooth/Spotify for hip-hop. (With what we can control).. I guess a new amp is on my to-do list

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

Wow.. Ok so the Google pixel 2 XL doesn't have a 3.5mm stereo jack.. it has a type C port only. So I used a type C to 3.5mm converter. I guess that's why aux sucked too.

So touching on your last point.. that would mean regardless of what I try the 2 series will always have crappy bitrate capabilities.

Im getting used to the audio system now though.. I have a somewhat decent setting via Bluetooth/Spotify for hip-hop. (With what we can control).. I guess a new amp is on my to-do list

Well, it depends on what that USB Type C-to-3.5mm converter's doing. Digital-to-analog conversion would have to happen beforehand. The question is where that's happening: inside the phone, or inside the converter (as it does in Apple's similar adapter dongle)? The next question would be: What resolution is the converter decoding the digital music to?

Your cause is not lost.

Try this as a demonstration:
1). Play a song on a CD in the CD player.
2a). Burn that same CD to the onboard HDD, then play the same song.
and/or
2b). Rip that same song at a lower bitrate from the CD to a computer, load the song onto a thumb drive, and play that via the USB input.

Listen for differences. If you hear them readily, you've got a good-enough ear to see benefits from higher-resolution music.

Why? Because the CD player decodes at 1411 kbps, while burning that same CD to the HDD downsamples the music to 256 kbps -- less than a fifth of the data density. Even on the 2 Series', um, 'fuzzy' audio, that can be readily heard -- or felt in the case of bass response, since a large part of what's cut from lower-resolution music is bass data.

[530iAndroid]

My 2018 230i does not have a 3.5mm input (which was a complete surprise to me when I took delivery) so I guess I am SOL?

I was going to get the BavSound Stage One and Bimmertech amp but Bavsound told me that they have compatibility issues so now I wonder what remaining solution there is for getting around the car messing up the audio? Almost everything on my iPod and iPhone is lossless so this is disappointing. Even more concerning however is that I do actually have Spotify Premium and if 320kbps is compressed further by the car then I would imagine that it would sound worse than if it had been encoded with a lower bitrate to begin with.

Getting new speakers and an amp like the one from Bimmertech was on top of my to-do list but as it turns out Bavsound now says the Stage One for HiFi is incompatible with it (see my other thread). If I was indeed able to get this amp working with a Stage One speaker upgrade, would that solve MOST of the quality reduction caused by the stereo? I definitely would want to avoid having to run a cable from the iPod or iPhone directly to the amp and then being forced to control my music using a handheld device? That's just dangerous.

I don't need true studio quality audio in my car. Even with my AKG 702 headphones I don't hear that much of a difference between lossless and 320kbps coming from my iPod Classic. But if I am going to spend a couple of thousand dollars on an audio system for this car, ideally I would like to get the most out of my huge lossless music collection.

[Dirtboy]

Originally Posted by Nexus313

Using spotify via bluetooth...

Does anyone have a nice amp they would recommend to fix the issue? so far I've seen Bimmertech amp.

Originally Posted by Jerich0

Match UP 7 bmw is the amp you need!

I second that. The Audiotec Fischer Match UP 7BMW amp is the one I have in my M2. It's a direct plug-in. You'll have to tune it with a Windows laptop though; pretty easy.