[abcfgh]

I have little experience with tires and looking for recommendations for my 2015 BMW M235i with staggered stock rims.. Unlikely to see track use, but will see aggressive street use and many commuter miles.

Stock tire sizes:

- 225/40R18 (7.5" front rim)

- 245/35R18 (8.0" rear rim)

Michelin PS4S vs. A/S 3+? Ultra High Performance All Seasons vs Summer Tires? Anything else worth checking out?

Wear worth trade-off in grip? Will I regret A/S tires with 305+ wheel horsepower and tiny stock tires? Otherwise, I'm pretty sure cornering grip will be just fine as I'm used to far less sporty tires on previous cars. Thanks in advance!

[overcoil]

the AS 3+ is a great tire on the M235, handles the power fine.

I do like a summer tire though - but in ice or snow it can get tricky and cause an accident.

Ive gone through about 15 Michelin tires on my 235 and have never had a balance or tire quality issue.

Just for conversation, and realizing I've got no driving talent, I found the original Michelin Pilot Super Sport the car came with was the most enjoyable tire when compared to MS3+ and PS4S. The MPSS was also the sketchiest on very cold road surfaces.

[abcfgh]

I should have mentioned I'm in SoCal so it will never see ice and highly doubt any snow either except for the rare ski trip.

On the car now are worn MPSS from previous owner and you definitely feel when they are cold...in fact, it's been kind of chilly here and feels like they just don't come up to temp very well, but they also have early 2016 date codes and are pretty toast (especially the outer edge of the fronts).

Any other brands/models to check out?

[grocerylist]

I can't think of a reason to not run summer tires if you're in socal.

[Maynard]

I really liked the Continental Extremecontacts, and they did well at temps down into the high 30s (some reduction in the cold, but not the total disaster I hear about w/some tires).

[abcfgh]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

I can't think of a reason to not run summer tires if you're in socal.

Because I'd rather not replace tires after 10k miles....I'd like to get to 20-30k miles on a set.

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by abcfgh

Because I'd rather not replace tires after 10k miles....I'd like to get to 20-30k miles on a set.

In that case I'd go with the A/S3+. You'll get ~30K miles out of them easily and they perform quite well as a spirited driving street tire. I have them and like them.
Another option is the Conti DSW06. A little less warm/dry weather performance, but quieter than the A/S3+ and better in snow. I've used these as well, on my GTI.
Everything is a trade-off. You just need to decide what's most important to you.

[grocerylist]

Originally Posted by abcfgh

Because I'd rather not replace tires after 10k miles....I'd like to get to 20-30k miles on a set.

What's the point of this thread asking whether to go with as3 or summer tires if you don't want summer tires?

Regardless the Michelin PS4S are known for getting very good mileage and they have a 30,000 mile warranty.

I'd never run all season tires somewhere that rarely sees temperatures below 50.

[4Hockey4]

I'm going AS3+, I simple need something that can go under 40 degrees. Not a DD, nor will it ever see snow, maybe not much rain...but out on a sunny 35 degree day will happen often. (yesterday)

Friend has Conti, good for snow/wet, slightly quieter, but AS3+ is better on dry. AS3+ is decent in wet/snow.

[abcfgh]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

What's the point of this thread asking whether to go with as3 or summer tires if you don't want summer tires?

Regardless the Michelin PS4S are known for getting very good mileage and they have a 30,000 mile warranty.

I'd never run all season tires somewhere that rarely sees temperatures below 50.

Well, if you had read my post carefully, I'm asking if there are any other tires to check out and whether it will make the extremely limited rear grip situation substantially worse. Specifically was hoping to hear from anyone that does aggressive driving with all seasons and hear their thoughts on how it feels.

Michelin's tire warranty is halved on staggered tire sizes (no tire rotations), so that means their tire warranty would be 15k. The A/S 3+ have a 45k mile warranty and they're not that far off and damn good tires from what I hear.

If it had 265 section rear tires then I wouldn't even think twice about it. Summer tires often don't get up to temp even in cooler 50 degree weather for shorter trips. They're not necessary and to be honest, I don't think I need higher limits for the road anyways.

[Hap]

Do you guys buy local...or tire rack and have local mount? I don't have many local options to buy so wonder what you guys do? Any local would have to order and most will try to sell what they have in stock and I doubt they will any options since I own about the only BMW in area. Probably go with same MPSS as I have now but may consider Pilot® Sport A/S 3+
Hap

[BEM-S4]

Stick with the AS3+, Michelins tend to wear better on BMWs for whatever reason, even bigger concern when you are staggered and cannot rotate. I have also run DWS06 which is the other popular all season option, and they did not last as long on my cars.

[abcfgh]

Originally Posted by Hap

Do you guys buy local...or tire rack and have local mount? I don't have many local options to buy so wonder what you guys do? Any local would have to order and most will try to sell what they have in stock and I doubt they will any options since I own about the only BMW in area. Probably go with same MPSS as I have now but may consider Pilot® Sport A/S 3+
Hap

I was likely going to wait for one of those Michelin rebates which are always happening to come around and then buy at Costco. They have pretty much every single size in stock of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ at several locations near me. Summer tires tend to have to be ordered though.

[sethwas]

Originally Posted by abcfgh

Because I'd rather not replace tires after 10k miles....I'd like to get to 20-30k miles on a set.

On a summer only tire (not track tire) you get the same mileage as on a non summer tire of high performance. So figure 25-30k at least (depending on how you drive and your air pressures).

Because you get no rain and no cold temps, there is no advantage to getting an all season (unless you drive to northern california). You simply are paying for performance you aren't using.

However, if you like a quieter/luxury tire, you unfortunately are limited to all seasons.

At this level (UHP or Max), which tire is a matter of personal preference. Some like the way a particular brand makes the steering feel or lose traction in certain conditions and some don't.

Lots of people go for the default michelin, which is a good choice, but also the most expensive and not top in all categories. Others swear by the continentals as those are OEM. Many choose Pirelli or bridgestone. For a while Goodyear was a top pic. Me? I went with General for summer since they were about as quiet a summer UHP tire you can get, have almost all the traction of the most expensive brand (heroic in the wet which doesn't apply to you), and cost way way less.
Next time I won't go with such a super high performance tire, because the chassis in the 2 is so good, I can really go with something more cushy and quiet (this is my DD) and still be able to dance if needed.

Seth

[abcfgh]

Originally Posted by sethwas

On a summer only tire (not track tire) you get the same mileage as on a non summer tire of high performance. So figure 25-30k at least (depending on how you drive and your air pressures).

Because you get no rain and no cold temps, there is no advantage to getting an all season (unless you drive to northern california). You simply are paying for performance you aren't using.
Seth

The Michelin A/S 3+'s are cheaper and last considerably longer. Your statements are false.

[sethwas]

Originally Posted by abcfgh

The Michelin A/S 3+'s are cheaper and last considerably longer. Your statements are false.

Just curious what do you mean? cheaper than what? Last longer than what?

The pricing I looked at for him (tire rack on OEM 18" rims) had the AS3 at $175 per and the general RS at $112 per tire. Both are 360 AA A

The all season is more expensive than the summer with identical tread wear ratings.


Seth

[abcfgh]

Originally Posted by sethwas

Just curious what do you mean? cheaper than what? Last longer than what?

The pricing I looked at for him (tire rack on OEM 18" rims) had the AS3 at $175 per and the general RS at $112 per tire. Both are 360 AA A

The all season is more expensive than the summer with identical tread wear ratings.


Seth

I'm comparing the PS4S and the A/S 3+. Cheaper and 300 vs 500 treadwear rating. Although, in reality, the A/S 3+ have more like a 400-450 treadwear rating.

In general though, A/S at the same manufacturer are cheaper than summer tires from what I've seen.

[sethwas]

Originally Posted by abcfgh

I'm comparing the PS4S and the A/S 3+.

In general though, A/S at the same manufacturer are cheaper than summer tires from what I've seen.

Ah, got it, I was comparing UHP to UHP and you are comparing UHP to Max Perf.

Just to use my general tire as an example, same car, same size, the UHP Summer is $112, the UHP AS is $117 - the spread was larger when I purchased as the summer was under $100 and the AS was closer to $130. I saw continental had the same with their DWS06 v summer, Yokohama with the Advan UHP AS v summer, Pirelli's P Zero summer were cheaper than AS too - with Pirelli the Max perf were cheaper than the UHP which were cheaper than the Grand Touring.
But other brands like bridgestone had parity (since they don't really make each class in an AS and summer so its hard to do an apples to apples) but dunlop had it flipped.
But I do see your logic and your math makes sense.

I always figured the reasons for the price discrepancy was supply and demand/basic economics. A tire manufacturer will charge the highest it can for a tire. There is more demand, within the same performance category, for AS tires than there are for summer only, so they can price them higher.
Of course, they can be greedy too, where a tire that is OEM supplied is more expensive than one that isn't so that when people just go get the same tires their car came with they will be more expensive than one of superior performance that is 'unknown'. It's all about how much they can make.

Anyway, the trend I've seen lately is current AS tires are growing in capability so much so that to have a summer blend tire in anything but the max or extreme categories didn't make sense as the latest grand touring summer or UHP summer had more performance than the previous generation super high performance tires. (Continental dropped their summer UHP recently, Michelin did too). It also allows them to raise the prices of the max/extreme category since they don't have an AS tire and can just command a premium - which is exactly what you found to be the case.

It reached a point where the older summers just got outclassed by the newer AS though, and my next set of tires will likely be something touring oriented because of it.

Seth