[pdx]

This is a follow-up to: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...8#post25562448

i am writing this because i can't seem to find any of these kinds of reviews about the BAVSOUND speakers. i like these kinds of reviews, so i would imagine at least one other person does as well. for the sound nerds pontificate about the folly of quality sound in automobiles, you should skip this.

the preface: this review applies to *MY* 2018 m240ix (F22 B58) coupe that came with the Harman Kardon speaker setup.

i am very much the kind of person that wants to know how things can change but doesn't want to break things to get it done. so when i read about the BAVSOUND drop-in upgrades and watched all the install videos i thought it was going to be the perfect project for me.

i read on their site that they think their STAGE ONE speaker upgrade would be an improvement over the Harman Kardon speakers, tho not as much of an improvement from upgrading from the HiFi speaker install. and the GHOST subwoofers would give me more bass? sound good. if i can get more of what i have, i will give it a try.

as i mentioned in my quick review, i installed the following:
Ghost BMW Underseat Subwoofers V2
Stage One BMW Speaker Upgrade for F22/F87 Coupe with Harman Kardon
https://www.bavsound.com/

the install: despite watching the install videos a half dozen times it was nowhere near as easy for me. yeah, i know the guy in the video does it for a living, but for someone that doesnt rip apart cars all day long it was quite an ordeal. and i most definitely got discouraged when i realized *MY* car has six (total) single-use nuts (07-14-7-265-039) in the doors where the handle attaches to the door. this wouldn't have been a big deal if the kit had included them, or the install videos had mentioned them, or the BAVSOUND support people on the phone / email acknowledged it was even a thing (they still refuse to). it was quite a thing to rip apart my perfectly good car and get the doors back together only to realize the six screws that are actually attaching your handles to your door are not screwing in to anything. and having to pound your panel back enough together enough to drive to the dealership parts place to get new nuts so that you could come home and rip off the panels again to replace the nuts.

to make things even more frustrating for me is that of the ten speakers in the Stage One kit i ordered, TWO were bad. to me, that is gross. no amount of un-plugging or re-plugging or turning the car on or off or swapping to a different location made any difference. yes, BAVSOUND shipped me two replacement speakers. yes, the new speakers worked as expected.

oh, and both the Ghost subwoofers actually include their own sheet of paper saying they should be used for twelve hours before passing judgement on them. which i think is lame. you can go ahead and pre-cook my meal for me, i dont want to have to cook it myself at my table.

the review: my car now as highs. and i swear right around twelve hours into a road-trip, the subwoofers finally settled into doing their thing. i have noticed parts of songs that i never knew existed before (even after YEARS of listening to them on all sorts of different speakers). i actually turned around in my car wondering where the additional noises were coming from, only to realize it was previously hidden part of the song. to me, thats very cool. tho i would say while the highs are definitely crystal clear, the mids seem to be more subdued form NORMAL music (more on that in a minute). as i mentioned in my initial quick review, the subs are merely okay for normal music. in no way-shape-or-form are they a replacement for a proper sub-in-a-box and amplifier setup. normal music can almost seem like its missing any real lows all-together at times. which, while disappointing, is expected because not all music is mixed the same. listening to music recorded at various times through the decades might leave you a little wanting for a fuller sound. which brings me to...

...what i mean by NORMAL music. i was okay with things sounding inconsistent and some songs sounding better than other with my ripped-from-CDs and digital music purchases from over the years. digital file format wars aside, i have ripped all my music to max-quality MP3s and use whatever Apple iTunes store format is using at the time. and all the music played in my car was transferred to a USB stick and then copied directly onto the cars built-in storage system. when buying digital music i would always roll my eyes when i see the "Mastered for iTunes" or the "Apple Digital Master" logo in the Apple iTunes store, but *WOW*, what a difference it makes when playing through the BAVSOUND speakers! its like the speakers were created to only accurately re-create the music mastered that way. its all there, the highs, the mids, the fantastic super-bassy lows. to me, it comes across as amazing.

further thoughts: i have read other people make the comment that you shouldnt even bother replacing the center dash speakers and you should rip them out. i think i have to agree. before screwing them in, i quickly checked that the center dash speakers worked in a door, so i know they actually work. but when installed, i have no idea what would make sound come out of the center dash speakers. are they for watching movies in your car? are the center dash speakers the where the fake engine noises come out of? after everything was fully installed i did one final balance / fader check and noticed from the front seat i can BARELY hear the back deck speakers. certainly not enough to make any noticeable difference for normal music (i have not bothered to do the test with "special" music). which really makes me wonder if the perfect kit for a driver that doesnt have passengers and doesn't want to spend what feels like waaay too much money, would be to replace the door speakers and the subs and disconnect everything else to save the money. i wonder if BAVSOUND would sell only door speakers and not make you buy the whole Stage One kit.

verdict: if you dont care about every hidden note in your music and you think your Harman Kardon speakers sound pretty-darn-good, i would save the money. and while i understand every setup has its compromises, and everyone hears things differently, i can't help but feel like the Harman Kardon speakers might have been the right compromise. when the BAVSOUND speakers dont have the best source material they sound merely okay and given their cost, almost disappointing. but when they have the right source material, they sound fantastic. who knows, maybe the $900 amp they still have not re-released for the 2 series would fix this. but that seems like another big gamble at this point.

feel free to private message me if you would like any more details of my experience or the install.

[FCBuff]

Thanks for the write up! Nicely done.

I agree that the source material really makes a big difference on all the sound system levels.

My car has the base sound (no HK) and I would like to upgrade. Have thought about BavSound but have read many mixed reviews.

[sauceonside]

Much appreciate you saving me $797 and way too much time.

[PG55]

Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my HK system to the BAVSOUND speakers. Do you have nay further comments or advice after having your system for about 1 year?

Thanks
PG55

[Rick.Null]

Originally Posted by PG55

Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my HK system to the BAVSOUND speakers. Do you have nay further comments or advice after having your system for about 1 year?

Thanks
PG55

I would save the money.

[Neverlost99]

Pretty happy with my HK. My top is always down.

[TheSniper]

Originally Posted by PG55

Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my HK system to the BAVSOUND speakers. Do you have nay further comments or advice after having your system for about 1 year?

Thanks
PG55

I recently had Audison speakers installed in the fronts, and it makes a heck of a difference. So much more clean and crisp.

After hearing how great the improvement was, I immediately ordered them for the rears.

I do have the HK system, but the speaker sizes should be the same.

[ctemkin]

My experience with Bavsound differs significantly from that of the OP.

Not long after getting my 2018 240ix, I decided that it was just not enjoyable to listen to the HK system. After researching some alternatives I decided to go for the full Bavsound system (Stage 1, subwoofers, and amp) and to have them installed by a professional. Not that I am incompetent with tools, but I did not want to learn about removing panels, etc. by using my own new BMW for practice.

As it happened, Bavsound was making a transition to the new Ghost subwoofers and they were not yet available. Bavsound did have the Stage 1 speakers and the amp in stock, but inadvertently sent the wrong speakers to the installer, and so the installer just put in the amp. In maybe a week the correct speakers arrived, and the installer put them in. Some months later the Ghost subwoofers were shipping, and I bought a pair and installed them myself.

I relate this because it me the chance to hear the difference with the new amp and the original HK speakers, the new amp with the Stage 1 speakers but the original subwoofers, and the complete system. I found that each of the first two steps led to a significant improvement, but that the sound system still sounded off--not only was the bass not punchy, but there seemed to be a hole where the upper bass/lower mids should have been. I brought this up with Bavsound and was told that the original subwoofers lacked not only power but also an adequate range. I figured that the best way to address both issues was to get the Ghost subs when they became available. Sure enough, that worked, and as far as I am concerned, the sound has been excellent.

I believe that the amp made three contributions to the final result: it was a lot more powerful, it had a better DAC (not a great one, maybe, but better), and its DSP worked great. In fact, I had been planning to fool around with the DSP tuning, but I decided that if I did I would almost certainly do more harm than good. I think that it reflects the quality of the sound with Bavsound's tuning, and certainly not any maturity on my part, that I was able to resist the temptation to tweak it.

I agree with the OP that Bavsound's videos make things look easier than they may turn out to be. Replacing the subs was totally straightforward, except that one or two of the bolts holding the original ones in place had been way overtightened. It took me a while searching through several tool sets to put my hands on an adaptor that let me mate the torx bit to an adequately hefty wrench.

I can also understand that the OP, not being able to install a new amp because Bavsound was not at that time offering amps for our cars, felt that the overall improvement in replacing speakers was not worth what he had paid and gone through. I think that my amp is a critical part of my overall system. It happens, however, that Bovsound is offering, or at least about to offer, a new amp that will fit our models and that is tuned for them. Based on my experience with their DSP tuning, I would think that this would make a big difference. Since Bavsound offers a trial period, I think it would be worth trying out.

[MarcoZandrini]

A big issue is the digital to analog converter (DAC) in the factory head unit. It and its supporting electronix are just not that good. You can install the best speakers (of your choice) but the system will be hindered by the crappy DAC. So, you have 2 options:
1. Replace the head unit with a head unit with a much better DAC.
2. Replace the factory amp with an amp that has a high end DAC.

I went the second route with the Match 7UP BMW amp and a USB module that plugs into the amp. I ended up using a FiiO M3 pro digital player and running a 15' (10' is just too short) usb-c + usb mini B cable from the console to the amp. The sound is amazingly spacious. Also, have Dark Side of the Moon in wav (lossless) file format . Absolutely amazing sound even though I installed moderately priced Eton speakers in the front and JL 2 way speakers in the back.

[jv92red]

An issue I see with just a Bavsound Stage 1 speaker upgrade is that at the end of the day you're still dealing with the factory AMP with its factory tune and as Marco pointed out it's subpar DAC. So while the Bavesound stage 1 upgrade will sound better than stock by ditching the awful factory speakers it's still limited by what the factory head unit and amp give you (or don't for that matter)

So then you go one logical step forward for even better sound and get the Bavsound amp/DSP unit to get more power/dynamics and now it's tunable too. Problem is, while that amp is light years ahead of the factory amp it still has a canned tune in its DSP. So as mentioned if you hear some frequencies that are just not right or missing or are too harsh then you really need to get it tuned. If you don't want to get a MIC and run REW and get into the nuts and bolts of how to tune, have someone tune it for you. There are many shops and even some people you can find offering their services to tune on Facebook groups or even on OfferUp that will have plenty of knowledge on how to tune your system. After all, you spent a nice chunk of change on an amp with DSP capabilities, why settle for a canned tune and some bothersome frequency response when there are improvements to be made for just a little more time and a little more $.

I looked at the Bavesound website and no mention of a separate optical input for that AMP/DSP unit so looks like your still having to work off of the factory headunit as a source and thus its DAC. As Marco mentioned another benefit of running the Match/Helix branded amp/DSP is that you can bypass the factory headunit by running a separate DAP as an additional source to the headunit as the Match has a SPDIF input to allow you to run a higher quality clean signal with a DAP's often much higher quality DACs. The Match unit has auto-switching capabilities so it can switch between what you are wanting to listen to at any given time: your headunit or a separate DAP.

[TropikThunder]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

A big issue is the digital to analog converter (DAC) in the factory head unit. It and its supporting electronix are just not that good. You can install the best speakers (of your choice) but the system will be hindered by the crappy DAC. So, you have 2 options:
1. Replace the head unit with a head unit with a much better DAC.
2. Replace the factory amp with an amp that has a high end DAC.

I went the second route with the Match 7UP BMW amp and a USB module that plugs into the amp. I ended up using a FiiO M3 pro digital player and running a 15' (10' is just too short) usb-c + usb mini B cable from the console to the amp. The sound is amazingly spacious. Also, have Dark Side of the Moon in wav (lossless) file format . Absolutely amazing sound even though I installed moderately priced Eton speakers in the front and JL 2 way speakers in the back.

ETON has a new amp out called the Stealth 7.1 DSP that has a wifi input. I'm not an expert but I believe signal loss is less/better with wifi vs USB but maybe others can comment. It's not available in the US yet though.

[Rick.Null]

Originally Posted by TropikThunder

ETON has a new amp out called the Stealth 7.1 DSP that has a wifi input. I'm not an expert but I believe signal loss is less/better with wifi vs USB but maybe others can comment. It's not available in the US yet though.

I looked this up and it seems fantastic. The MATCHUP is so painlessly plug and play though

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by Rick.Null

I looked this up and it seems fantastic. The MATCHUP is so painlessly plug and play though

I think it'd be great if someone came up with an install kit that allows the Eton amp to be plug and play, also.

[TropikThunder]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I think it'd be great if someone came up with an install kit that allows the Eton amp to be plug and play, also.

Eton makes a wiring harness to connect the Stealth to the factory head-unit output, called the BVAK but you're right that it's not 100% PnP:
https://www.eton-gmbh.com/en/product.../product/bvak/

Eton says it's specifically for the HiFi 676 (meaning not the HK upgraded 674) but I'm not convinced it won't work on the HK. I imagine the Technic harness should work too, the connector block that the existing cable from the head unit plugs into is the same. If you compare to say the BimmerTech or MATCH UP amps, they use a black plastic 40-pin connector to connect to the factory harness coming in from the head unit and going out to the speakers, and then two smaller black plastic connectors to hook up to the inputs and outputs on the amp. Also, the BimmerTech and MATCH amps use the power and ground connections from the factory harness, so they don't need separate power and ground wires run to the battery and chassis. So that is definitely PnP.

The Technic and Eton harnesses on the other hand use the same 40-pin connector to the factory harness but have individual wires that connect to the the amp instead of purpose-built connector blocks. And these don't use the power and ground connections coming from the factory harness, so they do need separate wires run to the battery and the chassis. So the Technic and Eton ones are ~half PnP.