[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Wow, you have an ugly 1M and you think the M4 is not nice? I'm on my 14th BMW getting ready to order my 15th and the M4 is one of the best looking BMW's I've ever seen so opinions are like asshole's.

You never saw me writing that the 1M is pretty... Actually, I think the 1M is in the frontier of what is admissible for 'show-off design' in a car.

Let me share what I find a great BMW design... not fake, not too busy, just natural and mean stance, E34 M5:

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by M.barnes

I don't need to get rid of 100kgs lol.

I don't know about you... but the M235i certainly do!

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I don't know about you... but the M235i certainly do!

So the manual m235i is about 3,200lbs stock, change out the wheels and tires and now you are at 3,150lbs. Change out the exhaust and you drop another 20lbs, change out the seats and you drop another 80lbs. Thats -150lbs right there!...for a curb weight of 3,050lbs...or 1,383Kg.

All in all, achieving a 3,000lb curb weight will be easy as pie!

[oscr972]

Next dump the moonroof and the power seats. I had an e92 configured that way which I thought yielded ~85 lbs.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

So the manual m235i is about 3,200lbs stock, change out the wheels and tires and now you are at 3,150lbs. Change out the exhaust and you drop another 20lbs, change out the seats and you drop another 80lbs. Thats -150lbs right there!...for a curb weight of 3,050lbs...or 1,383Kg.

All in all, achieving a 3,000lb curb weight will be easy as pie!

That's what I'm hopping the M2 will be good for... easy as it is there will be no excuse for BMW then, right?!

[scanspeak]

Originally Posted by RSXDC5

So the manual m235i is about 3,200lbs stock, change out the wheels and tires and now you are at 3,150lbs. Change out the exhaust and you drop another 20lbs, change out the seats and you drop another 80lbs. Thats -150lbs right there!...for a curb weight of 3,050lbs...or 1,383Kg.

All in all, achieving a 3,000lb curb weight will be easy as pie!

I like your thinking. What wheels/tires would you suggest?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by scanspeak

I like your thinking. What wheels/tires would you suggest?

APEX. Dollar for dollar the best lightweight wheels available. You can have something that the boards here seem to love (e.g., HRE) but you still really aren't guaranteed quality and you spend a heck of a lot more. For something like the m235 it's a safe bet. I've had lots of wheels and APEX are easily the best. I get pumped every spring to put them back on my E36 because of how much more crisp the turn in is vs my stock throwing stars.


I really hope manual seats are available in Canada as an option (and doesn't get tossed out when you try to add a package or something). Sunroof delete would be lovely or at least a non-glass sunroof. While we're at it, I hope M cloth is an option.

I'll be waiting for the M2 myself. Something tells me it will be special. This car is the right size and layout.

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by stefan

I really hope manual seats are available in Canada as an option (and doesn't get tossed out when you try to add a package or something). Sunroof delete would be lovely or at least a non-glass sunroof. While we're at it, I hope M cloth is an option.

For the M235i?

When I ordered mine, I did not try to delete the power seats. In Canada, DKT leather is it, no 'ette, no cloth. Just pick the colour. Sunroof is a CAD$1,500 option, or part of the Z2J (Premium Package) for CAD$4,500.00. I chose neither.

[M.barnes]

Leather is standard in Europe on m235i. No cloth option

[doo13sky]

Originally Posted by M.barnes

Leather is standard in Europe on m235i. No cloth option

Nope its option - check bmw.de configurator.

[M.barnes]

Ok correction. Leather is standard in uk where I ordered mine :

[BMW269]

I'm afraid the M2 will not be like an M3 CSL, but just like a poor man's M4, just like the M4 could be (have to wait for reviews) a poor man's M6. The M2 has really to go hard-core, an not just be a more powerful M235i.

And for those that don't know, Porsche Cayman is getting turbocharged Boxer 4 engine making up to 360 PS.

If BMW decides to make the M2 soft, so they have to bring out an M2 CSL, and that might take even longer.

Anyway, I don't think BMW will do anything good, as long as the M235i and M4 are enough satisfying for the enthusiasts to ensure BMW sales, they won't do anything better. That is how BMW works. If all buy M3/M4 for 80K without outdated lighting technology and manual handbrake, while most cars being DCT, they won't mind doing better.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by stefan

I'll be waiting for the M2 myself. Something tells me it will be special. This car is the right size and layout.

If you really have to buy BMW I guess you don't have an alternative, do you?!

You see, nothing about the M235i is special, its looks, its engine... in fact, besides the lettering and the new visual I didn't get what separates it apart from the M135i... what is it?

At least in the past only the 1 series Coupe, and not the hatchback, had the right to the 35i moniker.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

If you really have to buy BMW I guess you don't have an alternative, do you?!

You see, nothing about the M235i is special, its looks, its engine... in fact, besides the lettering and the new visual I didn't get what separates it apart from the M135i... what is it?

Absolutely nothing. Hence why I'll wait for the M2 to see how much tech it borrows from the F8x and if it can rival the driving experience of an E46.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by stefan

Absolutely nothing. Hence why I'll wait for the M2 to see how much tech it borrows from the F8x and if it can rival the driving experience of an E46.

stefan,

Not quite! We are forgetting about the M235i's LSD option which isn't available for the M135i, as far as I know. Not that I think the M235i will become special just because of that but it surely helps as far as the driving experience is concerned.

As for the E46's driving experience which is largely based on a high revving engine and very short gear ratios, you have to realize that without it the M3 E46 would be a completely different animal. Therefore, don't expect anything similar to that from a turbocharged/taller gear ratios drivetrain as they are essentially two different approaches.

The key factor for a special driving experience will be definitely the overall car weight.

In the event of that weight reduction could not be accomplished from a cost effective perspective for BMW while trying to keep, at the same time, all the (heavy) luxury goodies normally associated to a premium brand, then I see NO better alternative, for a revolutionary, hence special solution, than a triple-turbo diesel engine in the name of true EFFICIENT DYNAMICS.

The development cost of a triple-turbo diesel engine solution was already taken on - you now have the 3.0L M550d, X5 M50d and X6 M50d - so it's only a matter of downsizing, either they apply one more turbo to the existent 2.0L twin sequential turbo diesel engine or they simply limit the triple-turbo 3.0L diesel engine's max. torque to be sent to the M2 rear wheels, say to 550 - 600 Nm!

[stefan]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

stefan,

Not quite! We are forgetting about the M235i's LSD option which isn't available for the M135i, as far as I know. Not that I think the M235i will become special just because of that but it surely helps as far as the driving experience is concerned.

As for the E46's driving experience which is largely based on a high revving engine and very short gear ratios, you have to realize that without it the M3 E46 would be a completely different animal. Therefore, don't expect anything similar to that from a turbocharged/taller gear ratios drivetrain as they are essentially two different approaches.

The key factor for a special driving experience will be definitely the overall car weight.

In the event of that weight reduction could not be accomplished from a cost effective perspective for BMW while trying to keep, at the same time, all the (heavy) luxury goodies normally associated to a premium brand, then I see NO better alternative, for a revolutionary, hence special solution, than a triple-turbo diesel engine in the name of true EFFICIENT DYNAMICS.

The development cost of a triple-turbo diesel engine solution was already taken on - you now have the 3.0L M550d, X5 M50d and X6 M50d - so it's only a matter of downsizing, either they apply one more turbo to the existent 2.0L twin sequential turbo diesel engine or they simply limit the triple-turbo 3.0L diesel engine's max. torque to be sent to the M2 rear wheels, say to 550 - 600 Nm!

I was referring mainly to the weight and dimensions, and hopefully the M2 borrowing the turbo pre-charging and M dynamic differential. These are absolutely key things for a fun driving car. Ultimately I prefer an S54 but obviously those days are over. Now it's about how close we can get.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by stefan

I was referring mainly to the weight and dimensions

Yes and I tell you again, don't expect much in the weight reduction department because that's the most difficult and expensive aspect to accomplish in a street car..

Either you give up the main part of the comfort and luxury items that go along with premium offerings or you start to make extensive use of carbon fiber on the car body which is very expensive.

The M2 can't be too expensive because the car segment it belongs to doesn't allow so. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by stefan

Now it's about how close we can get.

If you are talking about the M3 CSL I can understand that statement because it was a great example of a thoroughly weight reduction program in order to achieve 240 lbs (110 kg) less on the scales mainly by the extensive use of carbon fiber. It was very expensive though!

The same will be VERY unlikely with a M2. So, I say diesel.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

And then we are possibly looking at an X1 M which will be in many ways closely related to the M2 in key significant areas.

Oh dear... it's worse than I thought. Now we have to look at a X1 M to know how the M2 will be like?!

The key word should be lightweight and instead we are now looking for a X1 as a benchmark... has someone in BMW completely lost his mind?!

Unless, of course, we are talking about a X1 M diesel to add to the M550d, X5 M50d and X6 M50d lineup.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Anyway it adds for some really exciting compact and sub-compact models coming from BMW. For as well as the M2 there will be a JCW MINI which will see the JCW brand adopt a more BMW M. Philosophy in performance , character and exclusivity.

This is the testimonial of the fact that if you want a lightweight BMW M tomorrow you should start looking at MINI... M for JCW. How sad is this?!

Originally Posted by Jason

Interesting tidbit that came up during our interview: "What we have seen on our tracks is that this car [M235i] is faster than a 1M Coupe." This backs up what Klaus Froehlich, Senior Vice President Brand and Product Strategies at BMW, said in an interview last year - that the M235i will beat the 1M Coupe around the Nurburgring.

Also, we've just found out that the optional LSD is 4 seconds worth on a Nurburgring lap time when mounted in a M135i:

Here's how this time compares to other notable cars with similar lap times by Sport Auto magazine:

7:48 - BMW M3 GTS
7:50 - BMW M3 CSL
7:55 - BMW F10 M5
8:04 - Alfa Romeo 4C
8:05 – BMW E92 M3 (2007)
8:09 – Audi RS4 (2006)
8:09 – BMW E63 M6 (2005)
8:13 – BMW E60 M5 (2004)
8:13 – Mercedes C63 AMG (2009)
8:15 – BMW 1M Coupe (2011)
8:16 – Porsche Cayman S (2009)
8:17 - Porsche Boxster S (2009)
8:18 – BMW M135i (2012) w/o LSD
8:18 - Lexus IS-F (2007)
8:22 – BMW E46 M3 (2000)
8:22 - BMW M Coupe (1998)
8:25 – Lotus Exige S (2008)
8:26 – Audi S5 (2008)

[GoingTooFast]

BTW, that M135 N'ring lap time was obtained with a 6-speed manual gearbox and Michelin Pilot Sport tires.

[GoingTooFast]

... and with adaptive M suspension but without LSD.

[M.barnes]

Yeah sports auto was faster.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by M.barnes

Yeah sports auto was faster.

Can you elaborate, please?