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      01-18-2020, 01:21 PM   #1
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Better steering feel - how to get it on my next 2 series?

I've read someone mention a dealer-installed limited-slip differential.

I've thought about investing in the adjustable suspension.

Steering feel is the one thing that has really been compromised in my last few cars; I wish it felt like the old days, like my 1981 320is, or my 1990 CRX Si. The car felt so much more in command.
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      01-18-2020, 03:22 PM   #2
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Installing the M2 lower control arms seems to help:
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...4#post25623874
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      01-18-2020, 05:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterDude View Post
I've read someone mention a dealer-installed limited-slip differential.

I've thought about investing in the adjustable suspension.

Steering feel is the one thing that has really been compromised in my last few cars; I wish it felt like the old days, like my 1981 320is, or my 1990 CRX Si. The car felt so much more in command.
Yes, get an LSD if it fits into your budget.

Regarding suspension, I'd argue for coilovers (with camber plates), but you can see by my signature that I pretty much went all-in as far as trying to make my car handle better, including improving the steering response.

However, our cars are never going to have the responsiveness of cars that weighed in the 2,175-2,520# range like your Si and 320is. Ours are quite pigly, and getting piglier all the time. I have to be pleased that mine weighs "only" 3,432#.

Speaking of light, my dad's first-generation Scirocco weighed 1,930#, and that was with him in the driver's chair. Man, that car was fun to toss around! Hmm...maybe Bring-a-Trailer has a nice example being offered right now.
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      01-19-2020, 12:43 AM   #4
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Tension strut monoballs increase the steering feel GREATLY.
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      01-19-2020, 07:47 AM   #5
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I guess that's the challenge with aftermarket parts. There's no way to easily test-drive the change, unless you just do it.
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      01-19-2020, 07:53 AM   #6
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Would this be the thing to get?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...nstalled-arms/
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      01-19-2020, 10:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterDude View Post
I guess that's the challenge with aftermarket parts. There's no way to easily test-drive the change, unless you just do it.
That's supposed to be part of the fun!
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      01-19-2020, 11:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
However, our cars are never going to have the responsiveness of cars that weighed in the 2,175-2,520# range like your Si and 320is. Ours are quite pigly, and getting piglier all the time. I have to be pleased that mine weighs "only" 3,432#.
dradernh you are so right. My 235 RWD is the heaviest car I've ever owned since my 1975 Olds Custom Cruiser station wagon with a 455. (That beast was over 5000 pounds. But it had more capacity than most SUV's these days.) The 235 is even heavier than my 05 Taurus wagon. Or any of the other sedans and wagons I drove over the past 25+ family years.

Whenever I drive my son's FRS, I'm amazed at the steering feel, and how easy it is to toss/catch compared to the 235. And that car still weighs ~2800 lbs.

The only way the F22 can really be considered 'small and light' is by comparing it to the bloated SUV's most people are driving these days. When you consider that, it's amazing it handles as well as it does.
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      01-20-2020, 11:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterDude View Post
I guess that's the challenge with aftermarket parts. There's no way to easily test-drive the change, unless you just do it.
This is why I organized a suspension demo/comparison day with other local F3x guys. You could see if there's any local F2x/F3x guys in your area that'd be interested in doing the same!

We had the following setups:
  • FaRKle!, 328dx F31 - Fat Cat Motorsports Stage 3 damper tuning w/ M-Perf & Hyperco springs, K-MAC camber bushings, K-MAC caster monoballs, Dinan 25mm front sway bar, KC Design 17mm rear sway bar
  • Andino, 328ix F31 - Bilstein B14, VAC Motorsports LCA monoballs, Millway camber plates, K-MAC caster monoballs, KC Design 17mm rear sway bar
  • Kreuz, 435i F32 - Ohlins Road & Track, SuperPro LCA and TS bushings, M-Perf LSD, H&R rear sway bar
  • jh_F30, 335i F30 - H&R sport springs, M-Sport dampers
  • moupe, 330ix F31 - Adaptive-M suspension
  • romemedrano, 335i F30 - M-Sport suspension


Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterDude View Post
Yup. That's the easiest route (getting pre-installed monoballls in the arms). VAC Motorsports also has tension strut and LCA monoballs (that come pre-installed), but you have to call them. It's a quality kit though and I like how they have rubber boots sealing the monoball on theirs.
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      01-25-2020, 05:40 PM   #10
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What would be the best suspension setup for lowering in terms of balance between steering feel/precision and comfort? The adaptive suspension is one of my main factors as to why I went m240i vs m2, and I'd like to preserve as much comfort as I can whilst maintaining feel. I want to do the lca/ts mod, just wondering what would be the best option for lowering without going too stiff but not becoming floaty?
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      01-27-2020, 07:19 AM   #11
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On your way to dropping big $$ on monoballs and new suspension pieces, first start with basics of lighter wheels, optimal tires and alignment; I found mine to be quite sensitive to modest changes in rotating/unsprung weight. Going to more optimal 8"/8.5" wheels will also really help with transitional response. I really noticed improvements after wheel/tire upgrade, but did it all at once, so I can't really pinpoint what was weight (I think about 3-4#/wheel less), what was the tire geometry, and what was the better rubber composition. Really look into suspension details before you swap out wheel/tire widths; the odder combos can alter steering geometry in ways that get complicated, and often suboptimal for 'road-feel'.
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      01-27-2020, 11:55 PM   #12
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I can pretty much go any direction with tires and rims, I blew a rear tire last fall so I'm planning on grabbing a new set anyway. I'd like to have at least 235s in the front and 265s for rears tho
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      02-03-2020, 10:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POMFKIMOCHI View Post
What would be the best suspension setup for lowering in terms of balance between steering feel/precision and comfort? The adaptive suspension is one of my main factors as to why I went m240i vs m2, and I'd like to preserve as much comfort as I can whilst maintaining feel. I want to do the lca/ts mod, just wondering what would be the best option for lowering without going too stiff but not becoming floaty?
It's all up to you, but I'm doing the powerflex TS bushings, and camber adjustable LCA inner. Dinan springs and stops. Retains stock adjustable dampers, improves steering feel due to getting rid of the big oil filled TS bushing, gives a bit more camber in the front. The bushings are also half the cost of the monoballs and should accomplish the same thing. From my reading, it's the big hydro TS bushing that causes the numb steering in the stock 2/3/4 series and the m4 TS arm has a better bushing in the front/non hydro type. I want to fit more aggressive 19" wheels so the m4 arms are out of the question as they rub with 19x8.5 (edit: with 235s) around et40
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      02-07-2020, 03:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterDude View Post
It depends on what you mean by better. If you are looking for a heavier steering, you can increase the caster settings by using either adjustable camber plates or adjustable tension arms/tension arm bushings.

The alternate, if your tension rod is still in good working order, is to order just the tension arm bushings:

https://www.hpashop.com/Adjustable-F...PL-CRB-F3X.htm

https://www.hpashop.com/Whiteline-20...Kit-KCA473.htm

If you are looking for steering responsiveness, less toe-in will give you a much quicker turn-in.
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      02-07-2020, 07:13 PM   #15
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Agree with some, I'd start with wheels/tires, then LCA/TS mods and into further suspension components as seen fit.
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