[david.orr]

Originally Posted by WAY

Perfect 7 seater for inner city types Jaffa!

but 'inner city driving' and 'grand tourers' are oxymorons it seems being a 7-seater and smaller-than-most are its key selling propositions

[Adem1534]

Oh god. Scott26 has tried to explain it over and over again.

BMW must expand. It must expand FASTER than it's competitors.

With it's competitors expanding in this manner, BMW must beat them to it.

If you are a true BMW fan, you are happy that BMW will be increasing it's dominance.

Because without BMW, you can't get your ///M car.

Go BMW.

Happy for the release of this car. Not for me. But I'm sure it is PERFECT for a lot of people, who would have previously shoved their money to Mercedes.

NEWS FLASH: You can still get your ///M car. Worry about your driving experience. Not about what others think of it.

[Alessandro]

kill it with fire

[G-Mann]

Soccer Moms need to drive to.

Certainly not my cup of tea but there is a money to be made for BMW.

Looks like most of these are complete refreshes or new models.


2015 World Car of the Year Finalists

*BMW 2 Series Active Tourer
*Citroën C4 Cactus
*Ford Mustang
*Hyundai Genesis
*Jeep Renegade
*Mazda2
*Mercedes-Benz C-Class
*MINI 5 door / MINI 4 door Hard Top
*Nissan Qashqai
*Volkswagen Passat

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Anyone who would consider a minivan has to like this addition to the marketplace.

As for FWD... I found it funny how often I heard from friends and even other car dealers talk about RWD being a drawback! You should see the looks I get when I tell people I special ordered my 335 so I could get it in RWD! Non enthusiasts (and even some enthusiasts) often can't grasp owning a RWD car where it snows.

[satish_141]

It is simply horrible looking car...it looks like a citibus..the brand value of BMW will go steep down by designing cars like this..I hate these BIG minivan type cars...BMW's should be a special..it should be slim, sleek and stunning..not this ugly red citibus and on top of that front wheel drive..super way going forward..I couldn't hate this design more..horrible

[angelbones]

Okay, here's a bright spot for the Americans. According to C&D, they not only don't like it (at least not coming from a BMW, although mostly positive as a people mover), but they say that it was not designed for the American market and there are no plans to bring it here.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-revealed-news

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Anyone who would consider a minivan has to like this addition to the marketplace.

As for FWD... I found it funny how often I heard from friends and even other car dealers talk about RWD being a drawback! You should see the looks I get when I tell people I special ordered my 335 so I could get it in RWD! Non enthusiasts (and even some enthusiasts) often can't grasp owning a RWD car where it snows.

I would guess they have little to no information on studless winter tires, and likely tool around on all-seasons!

[Greg FEightytwo]

Ugliest pos!!!! Sorry not a fan. Nervous for Bmw actually. They should just run a longer production on current models and take more time to produce better stuff

[flyaway]

Originally Posted by Tracus

If you are manipulating and emulating the criticism in a way you like it, it doesn't mean that it represents the truth.

You are missing the point in here:
1. So far BMW will likely loose the EXISTING customers because:
- they are not receptive to their requests. Slip Diff, LED, more quality interior, etc.
- The vehicles reliability did not increased, it almost become a slogan that " you always lease a BMW or never own a BMW outside of Warranty". That is a very big old issue right there.
- They start expanding instead of fixing what does not work and address all the concerns
- their reputation goes down the hill slowly; how many engines won in the past and how many last year?
- the quality of the build and the materials used in some vehicles are not justified for the price and their claim

2. There are EXISTING CUSTOMERS IN HERE that express their opinion because THEY CARE.
I have seen in the past as well, all your poor explanation how these cars will help funding the better cars.
So far, it seems that the funds were not enough because the M cars are not flawless, nor where they should be.

I hope this FWD van will fix that.

Okay, make some trucks too, but make sure that all your products are good and flawless. So far, none of them are that good and if I am looking carefully on the customers reviews, BMW doesn't really shine doesn't?

What about the dealership that right now are not able to address any issue properly (issues will not arise if the car will perfect right?) for the customers who bought really expensive vehicles? Can you imagine how a van owner will be treated?
They didn't have in stock a RFT for my car. ONE TIRE! So I switched to non RFT just to see them less.

Nonetheless, you are still missing the identity point: directly or indirectly many BMW owners identify themselves with a certain niche in the automobile owners list. There is a certain level of pride and image that is washed away, and many don't like that. You can build the car of the century, and the enthusiast may acknowledge it. Many will not accept the new direction BMW is going.

Take it or leave it.

Thank you sir (and all the others) for posting. Unfortunately, it seems that BMW is indeed present on the enthusiasts forums, only not for listening but for aggressively promoting the same bulls**t marketing message... And in this exact context, "Shear driving pleasure" is surely appropriated for the actual BMW line with the FWD minivans. Will you excuse us, Scott26, for mentioning things like "Ultimate Driving Machine", Cayman GT4 or RWD... Just sell and make profit! God Speed and goodbye...

[Boben5]

Jesus

[24601]

Originally Posted by uberspeed

Price point will determine if Toyo with the Sienna and Honda with their Odyssey should start worrying though I'd imagine some of those folks would love to move "upstream" into a BMW Mom mobile even if it makes us cringe.

So true.

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by 24601

So true.

Others pointed out it's not the same size and I realized that but my original point was I think quite a few folks will forgo some of the practicality for the badge. It won't be keeping up with the Joneses anymore when they're driving a marque with more perceived cachet. If you think soccer mom's don't care about brands you haven't been paying attention to the sunglasses and purses they're sporting, I know I used to buy them for my ex-wife. This will sell and in large quantities, I just wonder if it's short-sighted. Make money but possibly tarnish the image you've built over decades.

[BimmerNFS]

Granted, I will never buy it, but if other people will who cares. BMW is a for profit company. if they will sell a lot of them (which they will to a nitch) they will make money...stop making fun of a BMW "Mini" that will sell... guess that my 2 cents

[BimmerNFS]

And too, i have witnessed many people that haven't the least idea how to properly drive a RWD vehicle... it seems like MOST OF THE AVERAGE BMW driver has no idea how to correctly drive a proper 3 or 5 series. Why do you think a lot of the people that are non enthusiast have X Drive or the X series...

[gaijin]

As I see it, to each their own. And as far as BMW's product portfolio, I believe they are just keeping with their business plan in what is a very tough industry.

[Kiwi]

The shame is BMW for years said they would never build fwd and even took us to racing tracks and showed why using opposition fwd's cars and BMW cars together. So BMW lied even only 3 years ago knowing they will be building fwd. BMW New Zealand is owned and run by Germany they test new prototype cars here. BMW owns a testing ground here.

[Eichler1]

Originally Posted by scrape1

Why does Toyota still have such a great reputation for reliability? Didn't they just get through a massive safety recall and pay a $1.2 billion fine for concealing safety defects? I am not so sure the Toyota of today is worthy of the great reputation they built in the 80s and 90s.

I agree, as one who bought a 1988 Celica when it was 11 years old and had 161K miles on it, drove it until 2013, sold it to my housekeeper's family, and it's still I use. I also bought a 1991 Honda Civic Si new in 1991, kept it until 2010, and now it's in my nephew's hands and still is in service. One of my current fleet is the aforementioned 1998 Oasis, with 243K miles on the clock, and it starts and runs brilliantly -- and handles remarkably well for a box-on-wheels, and has very good steering.

I have extensive experience with Japanese cars from their heyday ('80s-'90s) and agree they aren't what they once were. My most recent two car purchases were American, something I would not have remotely contemplated up to as recently as 5 years ago. In that time I have owned several BMWs. They are (were) amazing driver's cars and so well-designed. But they have to go to the shop more often for far more expensive repairs than the Japanese cars of yore but even the current crop, and many of the more recent domestic offerings, too. Now most BMWs aren't even that fun to drive any more.

Thus the discussion on this thread ridiculing the new 2-series minivan and holding out the M235i (and, with any luck, the M2) as the make's last great hopes as soulful, fun drivers' cars.

[Eichler1]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Old heap of rubbish? It is a brand new design, with a brand new IRS design. No more solid rear axle. And this video had the V6 non premium model. The 6 cylinder model is stereotyped as the "secretary's car" and the ones who are really "enthusiasts" and want a Mustang, get the V8. So, ahem...why you looking at V6? Add in the fact that the Mustang has added weight due to the new IRS design and tech, the V6 model's 300 hp may seem anemic for the model. Chances are the V8 GT convertible would be about the same as a 220i convertible.

Actually, the "ecoboost" turbo I-4 Mustang is slotted above the V-6 and should be competitive with the turbo I-4 220i/228i. The V-8 GT will give the M235i a run for its money in acceleration, and bear in mind that in a recent comparison, Road & Track magazine said the new Mustang GT has "BMW steering, the kind you don't get in a BMW anymore."

I own a 2013 Mustang GT, and I can say that the Coyote V-8 is both crazy powerful - rate of acceleration increasing as it zings to its 7000-rpm redline, V-8 bellow clearly audible sans electronic gimmickry, and respectably fuel-thrifty (for such a large, NA engine).

[Touring]

BMW has always made normal cars, but they have been relatively refined and sporty compared to the competitors. In Europe most 3 series are 320d, not M3 or 335.

The Grand Tourer will keep that tradition, it will be the most refined and sporty minivan on the road. And the owners will drive them like hell on the left lane on the autobahn, as they do with their 320d.

If Bmw decided in the 80'ies only to produce high performance cars, there would be no BMW today.

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Eichler1

Actually, the "ecoboost" turbo I-4 Mustang is slotted above the V-6 and should be competitive with the turbo I-4 220i/228i. The V-8 GT will give the M235i a run for its money in acceleration, and bear in mind that in a recent comparison, Road & Track magazine said the new Mustang GT has "BMW steering, the kind you don't get in a BMW anymore."

I own a 2013 Mustang GT, and I can say that the Coyote V-8 is both crazy powerful - rate of acceleration increasing as it zings to its 7000-rpm redline, V-8 bellow clearly audible sans electronic gimmickry, and respectably fuel-thrifty (for such a large, NA engine).

It will be interesting when I get to drive a new Mustang Convertible for 3 weeks in the States later this year. Who believes reviews anyway I do know the front seating is really comfortable after driving 5,000 miles in the States in 3 weeks last year and we never got bad backs or tired. The 220i does cost less than the turbo 4 Mustang at home when it arrives.

This is a lot better than talking about a people mover.

[SnMalone]