Intermittent Sound Coming from Suspension

RL Harrison · 01-30-2023, 10:45 AM

I have a 2017 M240i (~ 60,000 KM) and a noise is emanating from what sound like the right front wheel area that cannot be pinpointed by BMW technicians.

The sound was originally heard when coming out of a right-hand turn from an intersection at slow speed while the steering wheel was turing back to the centre position. It has now become more apparent but also intermittent while driving along at a constant velocity whereby the road is either slightly angled and/or has undulations. It almost seems like the sound only occurs when lateral forces are applied to the mechanical suspension structure. What is also interesting is the the sound appears to be more amplified when the windows are up (closed) as, when the windows are down, the sound level almost seems to dissipate over the sound of the road noise. BMW (and also another third-party auto shop) is/has been trying to isolate where the noise is coming from but, it's intermittent and cannot be replicated in the shop on a lift etc.

I'm told BMW has reached out to a number of technicians and nobody knows what's happening. It's not bearing and at one point, they (BMW) thought it might be the transfer case but they are also unsure of this as well and don't want to fix something that's not broken at my expense.

It has been suggested (now by both the third-party shop and BMW) to continue to drive until it gets worse but (a) when the noise occurs, it's unbearable to listen to and more importantly (b) I can't believe I'm being asked to drive it when there's a problem that if and when it does fail, the consequences could be life altering for me and/or others on the road as 90% of my driving is on highways with this car.

If anyone out there has either has this problem, knows what it is or might be, I would truly appreciate your feedback.

Much appreciated.

jv92red · 01-31-2023, 12:18 AM

Is it possible you can record a video or a EVP (I watch too many ghost shows) of said noises so we can join you in trying to figure out what this mysterious noise could be?

RL Harrison · 01-31-2023, 07:57 AM

Hi, I did try to record the sound for the BMW technicians as it was originally an intermittent sound but when I did, either the microphone wasn't sensitive enough to pick it up or, the cabin noise masked it out.

The sound has gotten more frequent though and they've heard it but just cannot pin-point its origin. What I can tell you is that it's a consistent frequency once it starts. The sound does not rise and lower in pitch. On a road with undulations (waves), the sound does oscillate slightly.
One more thing... when travelling at speed, the sound disappears when coasting but starts again when a little throttle is applied to maintain speed but, when accelerating, it disappears.

If I were to compare the sound frequency to a piano key range, I would say it's just above middle "C".

Thanks for responding.

RL Harrison · 02-09-2023, 12:13 PM

Latest update.. so BMW dealership tried to determine where the sound was coming from but cannot isolate it in the shop (can only here it when driving the car and it's infrequent which doesn't help).

They've said that they've eliminated it coming from the wheel bearings, transfer case etc. and has assured me that all the suspension components are in excellent condition as they've checked them as well.

The sound does appear to be coming from the front-driver side of the suspension which is what I thought it was as well.

So, basically, I've been asked to continue driving until the noise/sound gets either worse or occurs constantly (or both). YAY!

Hilariously, on my drive home, I took a longer route with som highway driving to give the car a little bit of a run (it was basically sitting for 3 weeks excluding BMW's mechanics taking it out periodically) and... I'm not sure if I even heard the sound once but then again, it was warm out and usually the noise is more prevalent when it's colder out and... I did have the music cranked because I'm little disappointed about this not being resolved.

I'm hoping somebody on this site has some thoughts on what it might be... once again, the symptoms are:

1) happens most often when, from a stationary position you make a right-hand turn and during the period when the steering is turning back to centre, it occurs,

2) while driving at a constant velocity and throttling the engine to maintain speed it occurs but immediately when you stop throttling, the noise stops,

3) when occurs as mentioned in (2) above, if you accelerate 'hard(er)', the sound stops,

4) if driving on a uneven road or a road with undulations, often the sound will occur and on road with undulations, the sound wavers with the undulations,

5) its does seem to be more prevalent when it's cold out near or below freezing,

6) when the sound occurs, it's a constant pitch (just above middle "C" on a keyboard) but does not get loader or softer depending on speed.

So, at least to me, it seems like this issue is related to something where the expansion/contraction of temperature matters and/or forces are being applied to cause something to 'rub' together and mostly likely, a combination of both.

Appreciate anyone's feedback on this.

Thanks!

freakystyly · 02-09-2023, 12:54 PM

Have you ruled out the ASD (adaptive sound design)? Could it be coming from the speakers?

RL Harrison · 02-09-2023, 01:15 PM

Thanks for your suggestion.

Interesting... Didn't consider that, I'll contact BMW. The car does have the upgraded Harmon Kardon sound system in it but I don't know if it included an ASD module.

I had that feature in an old car of mine and remember what it was like having it but this car, if it does have it, I would be really surprised as it's not exactly the quietest drive under any conditions.

Not sure how to tell (where to look) if it does. I'll have to look into that.

Thanks!

freakystyly · 02-09-2023, 01:35 PM

The module would be by your HK amplifier in the trunk on the drivers side... Not saying that's the cause, but stranger things have happened, right?

Kind of tricky to get to, if you like poking troubleshooting around by yourself... this thread shows the basics of where/how to get to it https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1202389

RL Harrison · 02-09-2023, 01:43 PM

Thanks... I just looked into where the ASD module would be located myself, I'll need to check for it when the weather improves. There's also, supposedly, setting you can adjust. I just went through all the settings and there's nothing there for ASD but, I'll look into it never-the-less.

As I had mentioned, I had this feature in an old car I had (late 90's Nissan Maxima, great car otherwise) and it must have been version 0.0 because if you were driving at any speed where there would be any slight wind noise when the window was lowered, man-oh-man... what a racket, it was like the audio system lost its mind trying to correct for it. It was brutal.
So, with that being said, I must rule this out.

aerobod · 02-09-2023, 02:49 PM

Have you checked the front driver side CV boots for damage, contact with anything near them, unevenness or contamination?

RL Harrison · 02-09-2023, 05:26 PM

As previously mentioned, both BMW and a third-party auto shop (that specialize in European cars) has checked everything on the suspension but, I will add this to my list of "things for consideration" to have checked at my next service or if it does in fact get worse.

Thanks for your input!

01-30-2023, 10:45 AM	#1
RL Harrison New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW M240i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	Intermittent Sound Coming from Suspension I have a 2017 M240i (~ 60,000 KM) and a noise is emanating from what sound like the right front wheel area that cannot be pinpointed by BMW technicians. The sound was originally heard when coming out of a right-hand turn from an intersection at slow speed while the steering wheel was turing back to the centre position. It has now become more apparent but also intermittent while driving along at a constant velocity whereby the road is either slightly angled and/or has undulations. It almost seems like the sound only occurs when lateral forces are applied to the mechanical suspension structure. What is also interesting is the the sound appears to be more amplified when the windows are up (closed) as, when the windows are down, the sound level almost seems to dissipate over the sound of the road noise. BMW (and also another third-party auto shop) is/has been trying to isolate where the noise is coming from but, it's intermittent and cannot be replicated in the shop on a lift etc. I'm told BMW has reached out to a number of technicians and nobody knows what's happening. It's not bearing and at one point, they (BMW) thought it might be the transfer case but they are also unsure of this as well and don't want to fix something that's not broken at my expense. It has been suggested (now by both the third-party shop and BMW) to continue to drive until it gets worse but (a) when the noise occurs, it's unbearable to listen to and more importantly (b) I can't believe I'm being asked to drive it when there's a problem that if and when it does fail, the consequences could be life altering for me and/or others on the road as 90% of my driving is on highways with this car. If anyone out there has either has this problem, knows what it is or might be, I would truly appreciate your feedback. Much appreciated.
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

01-31-2023, 12:18 AM	#2
jv92red Second Lieutenant 143 Rep 213 Posts Drives: F22 M240i (SOLD) E92M3 (SOLD) Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Is it possible you can record a video or a EVP (I watch too many ghost shows) of said noises so we can join you in trying to figure out what this mysterious noise could be?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-31-2023, 07:57 AM	#3
RL Harrison New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW M240i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	Hi, I did try to record the sound for the BMW technicians as it was originally an intermittent sound but when I did, either the microphone wasn't sensitive enough to pick it up or, the cabin noise masked it out. The sound has gotten more frequent though and they've heard it but just cannot pin-point its origin. What I can tell you is that it's a consistent frequency once it starts. The sound does not rise and lower in pitch. On a road with undulations (waves), the sound does oscillate slightly. One more thing... when travelling at speed, the sound disappears when coasting but starts again when a little throttle is applied to maintain speed but, when accelerating, it disappears. If I were to compare the sound frequency to a piano key range, I would say it's just above middle "C". Thanks for responding.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 12:13 PM	#4
RL Harrison New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW M240i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	Latest update.. so BMW dealership tried to determine where the sound was coming from but cannot isolate it in the shop (can only here it when driving the car and it's infrequent which doesn't help). They've said that they've eliminated it coming from the wheel bearings, transfer case etc. and has assured me that all the suspension components are in excellent condition as they've checked them as well. The sound does appear to be coming from the front-driver side of the suspension which is what I thought it was as well. So, basically, I've been asked to continue driving until the noise/sound gets either worse or occurs constantly (or both). YAY! Hilariously, on my drive home, I took a longer route with som highway driving to give the car a little bit of a run (it was basically sitting for 3 weeks excluding BMW's mechanics taking it out periodically) and... I'm not sure if I even heard the sound once but then again, it was warm out and usually the noise is more prevalent when it's colder out and... I did have the music cranked because I'm little disappointed about this not being resolved. I'm hoping somebody on this site has some thoughts on what it might be... once again, the symptoms are: 1) happens most often when, from a stationary position you make a right-hand turn and during the period when the steering is turning back to centre, it occurs, 2) while driving at a constant velocity and throttling the engine to maintain speed it occurs but immediately when you stop throttling, the noise stops, 3) when occurs as mentioned in (2) above, if you accelerate 'hard(er)', the sound stops, 4) if driving on a uneven road or a road with undulations, often the sound will occur and on road with undulations, the sound wavers with the undulations, 5) its does seem to be more prevalent when it's cold out near or below freezing, 6) when the sound occurs, it's a constant pitch (just above middle "C" on a keyboard) but does not get loader or softer depending on speed. So, at least to me, it seems like this issue is related to something where the expansion/contraction of temperature matters and/or forces are being applied to cause something to 'rub' together and mostly likely, a combination of both. Appreciate anyone's feedback on this. Thanks! Last edited by RL Harrison; 02-09-2023 at 12:18 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 12:54 PM	#5
freakystyly Lieutenant Colonel 2934 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: F22 B58 6MT Join Date: May 2016 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	Have you ruled out the ASD (adaptive sound design)? Could it be coming from the speakers?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 01:15 PM	#6
RL Harrison New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW M240i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	Thanks for your suggestion. Interesting... Didn't consider that, I'll contact BMW. The car does have the upgraded Harmon Kardon sound system in it but I don't know if it included an ASD module. I had that feature in an old car of mine and remember what it was like having it but this car, if it does have it, I would be really surprised as it's not exactly the quietest drive under any conditions. Not sure how to tell (where to look) if it does. I'll have to look into that. Thanks!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 01:35 PM	#7
freakystyly Lieutenant Colonel 2934 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: F22 B58 6MT Join Date: May 2016 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	The module would be by your HK amplifier in the trunk on the drivers side... Not saying that's the cause, but stranger things have happened, right? Kind of tricky to get to, if you like poking troubleshooting around by yourself... this thread shows the basics of where/how to get to it https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1202389
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 01:43 PM	#8
RL Harrison New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW M240i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	Thanks... I just looked into where the ASD module would be located myself, I'll need to check for it when the weather improves. There's also, supposedly, setting you can adjust. I just went through all the settings and there's nothing there for ASD but, I'll look into it never-the-less. As I had mentioned, I had this feature in an old car I had (late 90's Nissan Maxima, great car otherwise) and it must have been version 0.0 because if you were driving at any speed where there would be any slight wind noise when the window was lowered, man-oh-man... what a racket, it was like the audio system lost its mind trying to correct for it. It was brutal. So, with that being said, I must rule this out.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 02:49 PM	#9
aerobod Car Geek 3612 Rep 3,579 Posts Drives: Caterham R500, M2-G87, Macan S Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	Have you checked the front driver side CV boots for damage, contact with anything near them, unevenness or contamination?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2023, 05:26 PM	#10
RL Harrison New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW M240i xDrive Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	As previously mentioned, both BMW and a third-party auto shop (that specialize in European cars) has checked everything on the suspension but, I will add this to my list of "things for consideration" to have checked at my next service or if it does in fact get worse. Thanks for your input!
	Appreciate 0 Quote