[BrettKA7]

Mine is more reliable at a higher mileage than my Lexus was. But I got a particularly unreliable Lexus.

The 2-series and A3 are the only two models in the segment at or above the industry average.

Here's hoping to a happy ownership once the warranty runs out!

[leftoverture]

Well based on that the Porsche 911 is the most dependable. I wonder if I can convince Mrs. Leftoverture that is good reason to go Porsche shopping?

[theserbatron]

What organization does this testing/ranking?

[morphomeman]

J. D. Power. It says so on the first line and in the fine print at the bottom.
They are the largest such entity in the country.

[Sportstick]

My n=1 experience is that it is the most dependable after 6.5 years.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by leftoverture

Well based on that the Porsche 911 is the most dependable. I wonder if I can convince Mrs. Leftoverture that is good reason to go Porsche shopping?

Have you seen the cost of Porsche parts???

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by theserbatron

What organization does this testing/ranking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.D._Power

[leftoverture]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

Have you seen the cost of Porsche parts???

Shhh. You're going to blow this for me.

[Mogki]

That is good news as a new 2 owner, I have some doubts about the Sonata being up there seeing as I had one and had every possible issue and dealt with the worst service center and dealers of my life.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Mogki

That is good news as a new 2 owner, I have some doubts about the Sonata being up there seeing as I had one and had every possible issue and dealt with the worst service center and dealers of my life.

It is large sample data, and in every distribution, there are outliers. Somewhere there may be a 2 Series owner with similar experience as you had with your Sonata.

But, don't worry! Sonata frequent occurrence!

[TonM3]

To be fair, everything is more reliable than an Audi, except for a VW.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by TonM3

To be fair, everything is more reliable than an Audi, except for a VW.

From my personal experience with two of them.....truth!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by TonM3

To be fair, everything is more reliable than an Audi, except for a VW.

My brother-in-law has a Q7. After sitting in the passenger chair during a nighttime drive, I call it the Q-Ship – that thing has enough distractions in it to cause a dozen "accidents". Now that he's had it for a couple of years, I'll have to ask him what he thinks about its quality level.

He came to the Q7 from a Korean luxe-mobile. I don't recall which one, but I do remember him telling me it was problem-free during his three-year lease. That mattered to him, so if the Q7 is lacking in that regard he'll have specifics to share.

This fellow can afford anything he wants, but we live in a fairly conservative region and splashing-out isn't common here. Being black and conservatively-styled, his Q7 fills the bill. In SoCal or the Bay Area, my guess is he'd be rocking an AMG SUV; and, it would be black, but for a different reason.

[leftoverture]

The first 3 years of ownership encompasses what...36k - 45k miles? Truth be told, a modern car should be reliable during that period. What would be really interesting is to see the data through the first 10 years (or say 125k - 150k miles). Now that would be telling, wouldn't it?! I don't even typically buy a car until it's 3 or 4 years old.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by leftoverture

What would be really interesting is to see the data through the first 10 years (or say 125k - 150k miles). Now that would be telling, wouldn't it?!

I agree, and that's why, separate from the issue of how reliable the data sources are, I found the following graphic of interest.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I agree, and that's why, separate from the issue of how reliable the data sources are, I found the following graphic of interest.

That graphic looks like it was scanned out of a 30 year old magazine and I'd like to think that it's outdated. Unfortunately, a quick search proved otherwise; I found plenty of similar results reports (the numbers all varied, but all agreed BMW was BY FAR the most expensive to maintain from 5-10 years.

Well, my car is 4 years 6 months old; I'm about to find out I guess.

[TonM3]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I agree, and that's why, separate from the issue of how reliable the data sources are, I found the following graphic of interest.

[IMG]https://u.cubeupload.com/EdWinter377...MWsOverTim.jpg[/IMG]

Well we have an M240 and a Pacifica, so we net out to average.

While it feels of lower quality than the BMW I got an 8 year extended factory warranty on my 2021 Pacifica Hybrid for $1,450.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by harma24

That graphic looks like it was scanned out of a 30 year old magazine and I'd like to think that it's outdated. Unfortunately, a quick search proved otherwise; I found plenty of similar results reports (the numbers all varied, but all agreed BMW was BY FAR the most expensive to maintain from 5-10 years.

Well, my car is 4 years 6 months old; I'm about to find out I guess.

It does look old, doesn't it. Consumer Reports is pretty fuddy-duddy that way.

As for BMWs costing an average of $900/year to maintain over the first ten years of ownership, I would have guessed it was somewhat more. One look at a dealership shows there's quite a bit of overhead in the business model. It doesn't help that new car buyers no longer shoulder their fair share of the burden. Parts are pretty crazy, too – I discovered that over forty years ago.

The wife has a six-year old Mazda 3 2.5-liter MT. It's required nothing except scheduled maintenance, and that seems quite inexpensive compared to my 2 Series. The MZ3 is more fun around town, too, so I use it except for spirited drives and road trips where the M240i can stretch its legs.

Originally Posted by TonM3

Well we have an M240 and a Pacifica, so we net out to average.

While it feels of lower quality than the BMW I got an 8 year extended factory warranty on my 2021 Pacifica Hybrid for $1,450.

1) I agree that you're netting out quite nicely – well done!

2) Even better!!!

[leftoverture]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I agree, and that's why, separate from the issue of how reliable the data sources are, I found the following graphic of interest.

Looks like I'm golden with my Lincoln. Our 228 has a warranty out to 2025 or 90k miles, so it seems we are destined to get our money's worth out of that warranty. Guess when it expires we sell!

[TheSniper]

Originally Posted by leftoverture

shhh. You're going to blow this for me.

lolololololol

[Outlaw 06]

These surveys are essentially meaningless. First: It's not necessarily the age, it's the mileage. Second: BMW's are under full factory warranty and maintenance for the first 3 years, so what is there for owners to really complain about?

I've owned 6 BMWs over the past 20 years, and I can attest to the fact that routine problems in modern BMWs (leaky drivetrain seals, emission control issues, etc.) start happening at around 80,000 miles. Even though I know this, I still hold on to my BMWs for too long for some reason...

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

These surveys are essentially meaningless. First: It's not necessarily the age, it's the mileage. Second: BMW's are under full factory warranty and maintenance for the first 3 years, so what is there for owners to really complain about?

Perhaps the survey is being misunderstood. First, there is a correlation between age and mileage, used for a variety of purposes in the industry, including used car values and standard lease calculations. Average annual mileage is ~12k per year. With large sample data, that would likely be found to apply to the sample in these studies. With that basis, one can reasonably estimate (and the research companies know and may identify in the full original report) the mean mileage for a given group of vehicles.

Secondly, the data is not reporting happiness or lack of happiness ("complaining") at how an issue is resolved nor paid for. The data simply numerically identifies how many issues have been reported, regardless of how it is paid, warranty or consumer's wallet. The quantitative data allows for comparison across brands, which is the original intention of the research.