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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Down pipe no tune ?

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      02-12-2020, 06:17 PM   #1
4Hockey4
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Down pipe no tune ?

I was going to add the Autowerkes Downpipe and ER charge to my 16' 235i with no tune.

Speed shop said probably good idea to get Stage 1 with the downpipe. Any reason this would be neccesary ? Get the more power part. (they are going to run dyno for air/fuel ratio wide open to make sure safe) Could the addl fuel requirements max out what the ECU is programmed to auto compensate ?

Still working on whether I get new 8" rims and 235's all the way around, or just add 225 PS4 to stock rims...either way on RFT's and not sure Stage 1 is good idea.

Any one run JUST a Fabspeed or Autowerkes catted downpipe only with any issues ?

Does a tune change anything if "not using" all the time ? fuel/air etc

Thanks for info
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      02-12-2020, 06:54 PM   #2
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That's what I'm going to do - catted dp and charge pipes/ic with no tune for a couple months. I wasn't 100% sure of this answer, but typically modern cars can go plus or minus 25% fueling, so was just going to run it and watch trims on a scan tool. I wouldn't do an intake without a tune but that's just my opinion, changing MAF housing geometry and such. The biggest question I have is about the intercooler though, I'm not sure if adding physical volume to the intake after the MAF has an effect on dme strategy/control
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      02-12-2020, 07:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandri View Post
That's what I'm going to do - catted dp and charge pipes/ic with no tune for a couple months. I wasn't 100% sure of this answer, but typically modern cars can go plus or minus 25% fueling, so was just going to run it and watch trims on a scan tool. I wouldn't do an intake without a tune but that's just my opinion, changing MAF housing geometry and such. The biggest question I have is about the intercooler though, I'm not sure if adding physical volume to the intake after the MAF has an effect on dme strategy/control
I'm under impression with just those 2 intercooler upgrade not necc. unless you are running it. Stage 1, then yes I/C good idea.

I guess if they hook up and ECU/fuel ratio at max is good, no issue.
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      02-12-2020, 10:10 PM   #4
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I have the full FBO without the tune cos I havenít decided which one I want to do. But the car drives and sounds great with the hardware without the tune right now. I went with Fabspeed catted DP, CSF intercooler and MP exhaust. Injen intake, stock charge pipe
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      02-13-2020, 02:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoops40 View Post
I have the full FBO without the tune cos I havenít decided which one I want to do. But the car drives and sounds great with the hardware without the tune right now. I went with Fabspeed catted DP, CSF intercooler and MP exhaust. Injen intake, stock charge pipe
do an ots bm3 or mhd map flash the stage 2 91 perfect for daily
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      02-13-2020, 11:43 AM   #6
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You can install the downpipe no tune without any issues. Just ignore the CEL .
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      02-13-2020, 11:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liandri View Post
That's what I'm going to do - catted dp and charge pipes/ic with no tune for a couple months. I wasn't 100% sure of this answer, but typically modern cars can go plus or minus 25% fueling, so was just going to run it and watch trims on a scan tool. I wouldn't do an intake without a tune but that's just my opinion, changing MAF housing geometry and such. The biggest question I have is about the intercooler though, I'm not sure if adding physical volume to the intake after the MAF has an effect on dme strategy/control
You can install downpipe, intercooler without a tune.
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      02-13-2020, 01:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
You can install the downpipe no tune without any issues. Just ignore the CEL .
/
Does that mean there will be CEL if no tune added ?
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      02-13-2020, 01:09 PM   #9
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I ran my HJS Euro 6 catted DP for over a year without a tune. No CELs or other problems. I then ran it with the Dinan piggyback in Stage 1 for 6 months and no issues. I'm now running with the Dinan piggyback in Stage 2. Again, no issues. The Dinan piggyback isn't designed specifically to run with a DP either.

The primary reason tuners recommend DPs with Stage 2 tunes and higher is because of the elevated exhaust gas temps when running higher boost/timing, etc. That heat can kill the stock cats at a quicker pace than stock. It's not because the tuners are doing something special to the tune to account for the DP to unleash more power.
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      02-13-2020, 01:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
/
Does that mean there will be CEL if no tune added ?
Depends on the downpipe. Active Autowerke and Fabspeed will not throw a code even if you do not have a tune.
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      02-13-2020, 02:13 PM   #11
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yea I have a hard time reconciling why a Fabspeed DP is $500 more than AAWerkes, and a ER Intercooler is $500 more than AAWerkes...guess I need to dig deeper...production seems the same, quality similar...

Why spend $1000 more for Fabspeed DP and ER Intercooler combo ?
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      02-13-2020, 02:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
yea I have a hard time reconciling why a Fabspeed DP is $500 more than AAWerkes, and a ER Intercooler is $500 more than AAWerkes...guess I need to dig deeper...production seems the same, quality similar...

Why spend $1000 more for Fabspeed DP and ER Intercooler combo ?
Quality, fitment, longevity, and lack of CELs.

With respect to catted DPs, you get what you pay for. The $1,500 Fabspeed (200 cell) and HJS DP (300 cell) catted downpipes use the best catalytic converters on the market. They are the most efficient, longest lasting, and generally free of CELs (HJS is CEL free because of its higher cell count and design).

The AA and others use cheaper cats. If you buy a super cheap catted DP, you can be certain that the cat will be of poor quality (may degrade quickly), will likely not fit right, and will definitely throw a CEL. The $1000-1100 AA catted DP is new to the market and hardly anyone is running them. The verdict is still out on the quality and lack of CELs.

I learned my lesson decades ago when first modding cars. Aftermarket companies have a very hard time matching OEM quality and fitment. I'd say you've got a 20% chance that your aftermarket part will fit exactly like stock and if it does, you've likely paid a premium for it. This especially goes for DPs,, intercoolers, and charge pipes with these cars. By cheap and changes are you'll have quality and fitment issues.

I am entirely happy paying $1500 for my HJS Euro 6 DP knowing that it fit like stock, looks nearly like stock, performs as advertised, and will last as long as the stock DP. I'll be able to recoup more money on resale too because it's highly desired.
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      02-13-2020, 06:18 PM   #13
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ok

Last edited by 4Hockey4; 02-13-2020 at 06:30 PM..
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      02-14-2020, 11:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quality, fitment, longevity, and lack of CELs.


The AA and others use cheaper cats. If you buy a super cheap catted DP, you can be certain that the cat will be of poor quality (may degrade quickly), will likely not fit right, and will definitely throw a CEL. The $1000-1100 AA catted DP is new to the market and hardly anyone is running them. The verdict is still out on the quality and lack of CELs.
I don't think AA's cat is cheap at all, I looked it up before I bought it and the standalone Gesi converter was somewhere around $460 alone. It has some sort of epa cert too which isn't a bad thing, but might not mean anything either. I'll be testing it to see if that cel free claim holds up since there will be a couple months gap between installing and tuning, though yeah it's a high flow unit that will never be able to match the large size/cell count of the stock torpedo of a cat, but naturally I hope most people know that
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      02-15-2020, 02:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post

The AA and others use cheaper cats. If you buy a super cheap catted DP, you can be certain that the cat will be of poor quality (may degrade quickly), will likely not fit right, and will definitely throw a CEL. The $1000-1100 AA catted DP is new to the market and hardly anyone is running them. The verdict is still out on the quality and lack of CELs.
im sorry but thats just not true. Active started working on this downpipe couple years ago. It took them that long to release it because they wanted to be 100% sure it wont throw a CEL and did all the necessary testing.

Hundreds of these pipes are in use without a single CEL issue. Its also using the GESI cats which is a high quality cat as well.
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      02-17-2020, 09:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
im sorry but thats just not true. Active started working on this downpipe couple years ago. It took them that long to release it because they wanted to be 100% sure it wont throw a CEL and did all the necessary testing.

Hundreds of these pipes are in use without a single CEL issue. Its also using the GESI cats which is a high quality cat as well.
Yea still having tough time deciding between 2. Also not doing tune now, and while the lower torque, reading downpipe with no tune can hurt upper RPM torque.

I know I know just pull trigger on MHD lol
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      02-17-2020, 12:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Yea still having tough time deciding between 2. Also not doing tune now, and while the lower torque, reading downpipe with no tune can hurt upper RPM torque.

I know I know just pull trigger on MHD lol
Or bootmod3
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