[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by richardddd

E30 with a Tesla motor.

M3

Audi

Sure but I mean something that I can go to a dealer and buy today

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

electric 'powertrain' is so easy to put out a lot of power. There is nothing special about it imo. Literally, any company can do exactly same as what Tesla can do in terms of powertrain.

Electric car is all about battery and charging speed, not the powertrain.

+1 And that's why no major manufacturer would be interested in buying out Tesla at a premium just for the technology. The big companies are trickling out "me too" EVs as virtue signalers and nothing more. Due to battery costs the price point won't drop anytime soon and that leaves out high volume. Couple that with range and charging limitations and you have a limited market that's close to saturated already. EVs are city cars for the most part, and well suited for that application.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

+1 And that's why no major manufacturer would be interested in buying out Tesla at a premium just for the technology. The big companies are trickling out "me too" EVs as virtue signalers and nothing more. Due to battery costs the price point won't drop anytime soon and that leaves out high volume. Couple that with range and charging limitations and you have a limited market that's close to saturated already. EVs are city cars for the most part, and well suited for that application.

That's my take too on the status of today's EV market. I'm expecting them to become mainstream choices sometime around the mid-2030s, and perhaps somewhat later.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

+1 And that's why no major manufacturer would be interested in buying out Tesla at a premium just for the technology. The big companies are trickling out "me too" EVs as virtue signalers and nothing more. Due to battery costs the price point won't drop anytime soon and that leaves out high volume. Couple that with range and charging limitations and you have a limited market that's close to saturated already. EVs are city cars for the most part, and well suited for that application.

They are outselling everybody though.... If I were one of the top manufacturers I would be scared as hell

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

They are outselling everybody though.... If I were one of the top manufacturers I would be scared as hell

When they are outselling GM, Toyota, or VW, then they will panic.

The model 3 sales numbers are high because they had 400k reservations.
(so far, they are 'selling' it as much as they can produce)
Real sales number will be after they fulfill all those reservations.

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

They are outselling everybody though.... If I were one of the top manufacturers I would be scared as hell

Lately their sales have picked up because the big Federal subsidy ends this month. Watch what happens in July. They have picked off the low hanging fruit and they know it. Hence the recent price reduction. They are a niche product .... but a very good one as witnessed by the owners. If you have the money, secure place for your own charger, low daily mileage, stay in the path of charger stations every two hundred miles on long trips and don't mind the 1/2 hour to stop and wait for a charge (add 1 1/2 hours to a 600 mile trip) it's a great car for you (blech interior notwithstanding). Until they resolve charging time and range anxiety EVs will remain niche products. In 2018 they represented 1% of the sales in the US. I don't think any big manufacturer is scared as they could easily out produce Tesla if they had to. I wish Tesla, or any EV for that matter, met my requirements as I think they are superior to ICE for power, smoothness, quietness, handling (low center gravity), roominess, and ease of driving (ever try regenerative braking?).

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

If I were one of the top manufacturers I would be scared as hell

Maybe they should be, maybe they are. Having been in the business for many decades, however, I doubt that they indulge in that emotion.

My take is that Teslas are principally fashion statements made by their owners, that having been the case since they came on the market. Not that there's anything wrong with that - BMW fills that need for many of its owners, too, as do many other marques.

Originally Posted by mleskovar

They are a niche product .... but a very good one as witnessed by the owners.

Consumer Reports shows that owners report fairly poor quality and very high rates of owner satisfaction.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

They are outselling everybody though.... If I were one of the top manufacturers I would be scared as hell

...but Tesla sales are still quite small relative to BMW and not as far ahead in the Electric field as you would think, their plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) volume in Q1 2019 (63,000) was only a little over double BMW PEV volume (29,000) and only 12% of the volume of BMW sales (519,000). Tesla also fell to #2 position in PEV sales in Q1 2019, to BYD, with Renault/Nissan very close behind:

https://insideevs.com/news/347761/el...roups-q1-2019/

BMW could well overtake Tesla in electric plug-in sales next year after they start ramping up volume later this year, especially as they have greater flexibility in overall production capacity with PEV still being a small part of their sales.

[mb67]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You're not completely insane. Folks have been putting electric drivetrains into vintage cars for quite sometime for exactly the reasons you're describing. Personally I'd be very interested in an electric 280Z.

Oh man, an electric 280ZX. I had a '78 280ZX as my first car and I'd love to get another one.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by mb67

Oh man, an electric 280ZX. I had a '78 280ZX as my first car and I'd love to get another one.

Well technically the 280Z was my first car too, I came home from the hospital in one. It was sold 2 weeks later after my dad slammed my hand in the door (no injury) and mom got rid of it while he was at work.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

Lately their sales have picked up because the big Federal subsidy ends this month. Watch what happens in July. They have picked off the low hanging fruit and they know it. Hence the recent price reduction. They are a niche product .... but a very good one as witnessed by the owners. If you have the money, secure place for your own charger, low daily mileage, stay in the path of charger stations every two hundred miles on long trips and don't mind the 1/2 hour to stop and wait for a charge (add 1 1/2 hours to a 600 mile trip) it's a great car for you (blech interior notwithstanding). Until they resolve charging time and range anxiety EVs will remain niche products. In 2018 they represented 1% of the sales in the US. I don't think any big manufacturer is scared as they could easily out produce Tesla if they had to. I wish Tesla, or any EV for that matter, met my requirements as I think they are superior to ICE for power, smoothness, quietness, handling (low center gravity), roominess, and ease of driving (ever try regenerative braking?).

True. Tax credit ends June 30th

Wonder if they will cut the price some more to compensate

Just need to wait for the 600mile+ range roadster

[dradernh]

Tesla – the Latest – as of June 2019

[Rocky58]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Imagine if you could get this...

I test drove a Model 3 perf a few months ago and can't get the ridiculous acceleration out of my head.....

Wouldn't be nice to have the look and interior of the BMW with the powertrain of a Model 3 perf?

Flame away

How would the integration of the handling and the driving feel with that powertrain work? To me the Tesla feels like a gocart attached to a rocket and an Apple laptop. It reminds me of the coyote in the RoadRunner cartoons, not a car.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Rocky58

How would the integration of the handling and the driving feel with that powertrain work? To me the Tesla feels like a gocart attached to a rocket and an Apple laptop. It reminds me of the coyote in the RoadRunner cartoons, not a car.

Have you driven one?

I would say I corners better than my M235.... stays really flat cause all the weight is very low...

There might be a bit less steering feel but it's a pretty good handling car and power delivery is sublime.....

It is a 4000lbs car though... so breaking is not the best

[aerobod]

It looks like the Model 3 has been placed in D-Street for Auto-X (all models), so the general consensus of the SCCA is that it has performance equivalent to the F22 228i and 230i. Other cars in that class are the 2018 WRX (non-STI), 2018 Lexus GS350 and 2017 Mustang V6.

[snaketh]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Have you driven one?

I would say I corners better than my M235.... stays really flat cause all the weight is very low...

There might be a bit less steering feel but it's a pretty good handling car and power delivery is sublime.....

It is a 4000lbs car though... so breaking is not the best

I borrowed one for a weekend. I took it through my usual route of twisty roads and I found it to be pretty average compared to the 2er. Steering feel was really poor, thst's saying something because thr 2er isn't great. I felt the weight big time when throwing it round hairpins. Downhill on the brakes felt scary.

The car is great on that 0-60 dash. I got walked easily on the highway from 55mph+ by an M240i with a downpipe. People are somewhat disingenuous with Teslas, once you're past that 1/4 mile, or up over 60mph, they run out of puff.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by aerobod

It looks like the Model 3 has been placed in D-Street for Auto-X (all models), so the general consensus of the SCCA is that it has performance equivalent to the F22 228i and 230i. Other cars in that class are the 2018 WRX (non-STI), 2018 Lexus GS350 and 2017 Mustang V6.

Model 3 performance is in BS. (M2 equivalent)

There was a model 3 performance in local Auto X.
It was super fast. (the driver was very good one, of course)

It seems very good auto x car even with all that weight.
Short enough runs so that it does not need to worry about overheating.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by snaketh

I borrowed one for a weekend. I took it through my usual route of twisty roads and I found it to be pretty average compared to the 2er. Steering feel was really poor, thst's saying something because thr 2er isn't great. I felt the weight big time when throwing it round hairpins. Downhill on the brakes felt scary.

The car is great on that 0-60 dash. I got walked easily on the highway from 55mph+ by an M240i with a downpipe. People are somewhat disingenuous with Teslas, once you're past that 1/4 mile, or up over 60mph, they run out of puff.

Was it the Model 3 perf ?

From a rolling start at 55mph by the time a M240 takes it over it would be over 120mph

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Was it the Model 3 perf ?

Is that the $70K Model 3?

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by snaketh

....once you're past that 1/4 mile, or up over 60mph, they run out of puff.

+1 It's definitely a stop light bingo car. I drive across the desert visiting Arizona with my ICE cars (Jag & BMW) and regularly have cruise set at 90 mph and still have power to pass. Cruising at that speed in an EV would use A LOT of electricity and seriously impact the range. But it's great for around town and short trips.

[snaketh]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Was it the Model 3 perf ?

From a rolling start at 55mph by the time a M240 takes it over it would be over 120mph

No it was the $50k LR version. Maybe the perf version would own the 240, but we nailed it at rolling start and he walked me in his m240. He was in 2nd gear ready to go. Not like those shitty carwow YT vids where they purposefully don't let the ICE car get into the powerband.

[Doug Hoover]

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/econo...0alvIoaQibQJw/

Have fun.