[Kunk]

Good morning 2addicts,

I am in the market for a used/CPO 2017-2018 M240i xDrive. One popped up on my radar yesterday that was a CPO with a clean CarFax along with quite an extensive maintenance record. The maintenance was all done at the same dealership where it was leased at and who is selling it now. I was ecstatic to see this because I likely would be able to see anything ever done to the car.

I show up to take a look at the car and I ask about the possibility of getting the maintenance records for during the first owners lease and the sales person walks away to ask somebody else about it. Another sales person comes over and informs me that the car in particular was a lease of a manager that was part of the dealership (different department) and that he had it serviced all the time since he worked at the place (tire fills/washes/etc). They also up front told me that the original engine had seized at 26,000 miles (car currently has 30,500) and that the engine was replaced under BMW warranty. I asked about the failure and he said it was some sort of internal seize so they only had to replace the short block.

The car itself is extremely clean. I am quite a stickler for cleanliness on the interior and I was shocked to see the condition of the interior for a car with 30,500 miles. There were spots that were clean that typically dealership detailers miss so I figured the guy that leased it took good care of it. Exterior looked great as well aside from a few rock chips.

Part of me thinks "Hey I can get a M240 for a good price with essentially a new engine and it's still got a CPO warranty until 12/21". The other part of me wonders "Did the failure potentially cause more damage or was the car heavily abused?" The fact that the dealership told me about the engine upfront without me having to pry about it did make it seem that it wasn't that big of a deal.

I would like to get some of your insights. This would be the "nicest" car I've ever owned so I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row and my mindset correct.

I do believe I'm over thinking it because there are always some engines that simply fail. Not all engines are perfect. Thank you!

[Sportstick]

I would think of it as likely having a new 4,000 mile motor that was likely installed correctly and is likely working as it should. BUT, I would personally give more weight to a vehicle that had never gone through this process under a combination of chaos theory and the law of unintended consequences. I would always wonder when some unpredicted effect would arise; probably think about it every night. BUT, (here I go again), my daughter's Accord had an entire engine replaced by Honda at about 30,000 miles (oil consumption) at a dealership, and happily ran for tens of thousands of miles after that.

It's relatively easy to detail a car back to beauty....the question remains if it is only skin deep. Bottom line...given your second to last paragraph, I'd keep searching, at a BMW dealer, for another CPO, originally sold by them, with complete from new records. As these guys were that transparent with you, they should know what else they may have coming off lease soon. Go back to the service department and ask about those cars.

One neurotic guy's opinion....YMMV. Good luck!

[cooolone2]

Engines today just don't "seize"... Without abuse, no maintenance or other possible negligent causes. So that would tell me it doesn't matter what maintenance was performed, the owner, taking advantage of the dealer connection, in all likelihood drove it like it was stolen, and did it often! A dealer will be able to have the engine or other issues taken care of. But that abuse doesn't stop at the engine. I wouldn't be surprised that the transmission and other components will fail sometime soon, but be on the new owners dime!

As noted above, I would prefer a well maintained vehicle "without" any issues, let alone a HUGE one like a blown engine!

Good luck with your search.

[Hap]

You didn’t mention if you can buy it right ? With 2 years of warranty left seems you could drive it for that long and know what you had for a car by then. I would ask around the shop/dealership and ask if they thought this car was driven hard. Some one knows. Again if it was a deal I don’t think your taking that big of a risk with remaining warranty.
What color is it ? I may be interested !
Hap

[WolfGTI]

That's a pack of baloney. If something was off tolerance from the factory like the oil pump or defective bearings - it could very well seize without abuse.

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Engines today just don't "seize"... Without abuse, no maintenance or other possible negligent causes. o that would tell me it doesn't matter what maintenance was performed, the owner, taking advantage of the dealer connection, in all likelihood drove it like it was stolen, and did it often! A dealer will be able to have the engine or other issues taken care of. But that abuse doesn't stop at the engine. I wouldn't be surprised that the transmission and other components will fail sometime soon, but be on the new owners dime!S

As noted above, I would prefer a well maintained vehicle "without" any issues, let alone a HUGE one like a blown engine!

Good luck with your search.

[Kunk]

Originally Posted by Hap

You didn’t mention if you can buy it right ? With 2 years of warranty left seems you could drive it for that long and know what you had for a car by then. I would ask around the shop/dealership and ask if they thought this car was driven hard. Some one knows. Again if it was a deal I don’t think your taking that big of a risk with remaining warranty.
What color is it ? I may be interested !
Hap

My apologies, but yes the car is for sale. The reason I didn't buy it yesterday is because I have to wait at least a week for the finances to work out.

The sales person that told me about the engine initially did mention that he was shocked that it had happened to this guy, because he said that the guy never tracked it because he had a dedicated track car (Subaru I believe). Sales person swore up and down that it just happened to be a fluke.

[overcoil]

BTW I'm in Baltimore.

Confucius stated sometime around 460 B.C. NEVER F-CKING TRUST A CAR SALESMAN !

BTW which dealership ?

[Kunk]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

BTW I'm in Baltimore.

Confucius stated sometime around 460 B.C. NEVER F-CKING TRUST A CAR SALESMAN !

BTW which dealership ?

Oh I forgot to update my profile. I actually moved from Baltimore to Colorado a few weeks ago.

Yes never trust the dealer and thus is why I'm hesitant. Thought the CPO warranty until 12/21 kind of gives me a nice peace of mind. I'm so torn haha.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Engines today just don't "seize"... Without abuse, no maintenance or other possible negligent causes. So that would tell me it doesn't matter what maintenance was performed, the owner, taking advantage of the dealer connection, in all likelihood drove it like it was stolen, and did it often! A dealer will be able to have the engine or other issues taken care of. But that abuse doesn't stop at the engine. I wouldn't be surprised that the transmission and other components will fail sometime soon, but be on the new owners dime!

As noted above, I would prefer a well maintained vehicle "without" any issues, let alone a HUGE one like a blown engine!

Good luck with your search.

Engines typically don't typically fail but engines from factory do fail and you can find threads on this and some of those threads you will find is a result of oil starvation from a fault from manufacturing.

While I will never touch a vehicle that has a major component replaced, if this engine was replaced because of a factory defect and everything else is fine, I don't see why another person wouldn't consider it at the right price.

[Rocky58]

If BMW authorized the engine replacement, there should be a very detailed record of what was done, and what parts were replaced, labor hours, etc. I would not buy it without being able to see those records. I have those records for even the smallest TSB done by the dealer for my car. If they are being truthful, there should be no problem pulling up those records for you. You didn't say how much of a deal it is or who the dealer is.

[Kunk]

Originally Posted by Rocky58

If BMW authorized the engine replacement, there should be a very detailed record of what was done, and what parts were replaced, labor hours, etc. I would not buy it without being able to see those records. I have those records for even the smallest TSB done by the dealer for my car. If they are being truthful, there should be no problem pulling up those records for you. You didn't say how much of a deal it is or who the dealer is.

Absolutely and when I asked about doing that they didn't seem like they would mind. To me... it's not a big deal because I have a CPO warranty for almost two years. I can understand how certain components can fail unexpectedly. I bought a new 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt in which the transmission failed at 15,000 miles. While yes that is apples to oranges it can still happen.

The dealership is Schomp BMW. Only reason I haven't got it yet is I am awaiting a reimbursement check from my company for moving expenses. I'll probably put a deposit on it though to hold it.

[overcoil]

a couple of questions.

Is a CPO warranty the same or different form a FULL EXTENDED WARRANTY ?

Does BMW often do short block engine replacement why not on a dealer car a long block replacement ?

There are a lot of attachments points that get disconnected and reconnected during a short block installation. Short block is cheaper due to less new parts but seems more complicated.

[Kunk]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

a couple of questions.

Is a CPO warranty the same or different form a FULL EXTENDED WARRANTY ?

Does BMW often do short block engine replacement why not on a dealer car a long block replacement ?

There are a lot of attachments points that get disconnected and reconnected during a short block installation. Short block is cheaper due to less new parts but seems more complicated.

From my understanding the CPO warranty is limited warranty that begins a year after the the original four year warranty falls off. So I would have the normal 4 year warranty until December 2020, and then the CPO warranty until December 2021.

The CPO warranty covers the following items:
Brakes
Fuel System
Engine
Final Drive Assembly, Propeller Shaft
Cooling System
Steering
ABS Brake System
Front Suspension
Rear Suspension
Automatic/Manual Transmission
Electrical
Interior/Exterior
Air Conditioning/Heating System

I don't actually think this was a dealer car because it was reported out as a lease. I think the person that leased just so happened to work at the dealership. Maybe that's what a dealer car means and I am over thinking that?

I asked as to why it was only the short block because on one of my previous cars (2015 STI) I suffered an engine failure in which the piston exploded and sent shrapnel through my heads and also my turbo which destroyed all that. He said that since it was just an internal seize it wasn't necessary to replace other components and instead of taking apart the short block and replacing those internal components they just swapped in a new block. I will be asking for the full detailed log so I can see what was all replaced, but I may not get that for a few days. Also this is all pending the car is still available within a week. For all I know it could get sold today and none of this would matter than haha.

[USA-RET]

Tough call on this one. Yes, a car's engine can seize or "grenade" w/o being abused. Rare, but happens. A red flag (for me) was "the car was never tracked as the guy has a dedicated track car". So the guy likes to race. What are the chances he didn't drive the lease car like he stole it on the street? Hmmmmm........

Wonder what the brakes look like (especially the fronts) under close inspection? That could speak volumes (providing they were not replaced once under warranty. Original tires? 1 set replaced? 2 sets?. I dig a little bit deeper on the service records and some closer inspection on wear parts before committing on this car.

If you really like the car, but there are still some "shady" areas. Tell the dealer you want a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty if you buy (or them provide one at a hugely discounted $ amount). If the car is a "cream-puff" as they represent it, then they shouldn't lose a dime on the warranty coverage.

I see too many "boy racers" on the street driving like hooligans. A car driven like that for 30K miles and I'd pass on it. Way too many others to be had that have been driven and cared for like mine.

Just my $.02

[jarhead3121]

Can't they provide a longer period on the engine since it's basically new? If you are really interested in it, I'd ask for extended warranty to be included in the deal. You shouldn't take all the risk imho.

[Liandri]

I'd pass on it. Not the experience I would want buying your first nice car personally. I've worked in a dealership service department for 3 years before and got a general idea of the dealership industry as a whole, and it's pretty bad. Flat rate causes techs to blow through jobs and take shortcuts, and I second what was said above generally new engines don't fail for no reason (that said I have seen it though) but with a car like that owned by dealership personnel you can infer they beat the piss out of it. All the sales techs at the shithole I worked at (which outwardly looked very nice) beat on cars. Techs beat on cars most chances they would get. Not trying to say that every dealer is this way, I'm sure some live to higher standards, but it's an inherent problem with the flat rate/commission dealership mentality and industry as a whole. I held out for a long time to find the right car, and I did, for a better price even. Of course your decision though and I wish you luck

[BEM-S4]

Seems like this idea is borne of budgetary concerns. Assuming that's the case I'd advise you to look for a clean, no funny story 230 instead. The car is no slouch and more than enough for spirited driving within even quasi-legal limits where you are.

The $ you save now gambling on an iffy 240 is not really money saved. When you go to sell it folks will have all the same questions you have now and discount accordingly. So you're not actually saving in the long run.

[Kunk]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Seems like this idea is borne of budgetary concerns. Assuming that's the case I'd advise you to look for a clean, no funny story 230 instead. The car is no slouch and more than enough for spirited driving within even quasi-legal limits where you are.

The $ you save now gambling on an iffy 240 is not really money saved. When you go to sell it folks will have all the same questions you have now and discount accordingly. So you're not actually saving in the long run.

It's not so much budgetary. Long story as to why I can't do it at this very moment (Could do it by this weekend).

I am thinking I will call up today and ask them to send me the full history log. If they aren't willing to provide that then I'll definitely walk. If they do provide it, I will go over it an report back what I find and see if smarter eyes (you all) see anything that screams "GTFO". I do know for a fact that the tires have been replaced just recently. I looked at the pads and they looked to be like new, but I don't know if they were replaced. Records should show me that.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Kunk

It's not so much budgetary. Long story as to why I can't do it at this very moment (Could do it by this weekend).

I am thinking I will call up today and ask them to send me the full history log. If they aren't willing to provide that then I'll definitely walk.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing. I'd just suggest whatever you want to spend, find the nicest cleanest thing you can for the money. I am on my second M235, first I kept stock this one Dinan. I've driven a lot of 228s and 230s and have that engine in my wagon and those cars are also a lot of fun.

[Kunk]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Good luck with whatever you end up doing. I'd just suggest whatever you want to spend, find the nicest cleanest thing you can for the money. I am on my second M235, first I kept stock this one Dinan. I've driven a lot of 228s and 230s and have that engine in my wagon and those cars are also a lot of fun.

I appreciate it. I edited my previous post right after you replied to it. Definitely not afraid to walk from it because I know something else will pop up, but this car has a few things on it that I would want that I normally don't see and would cost me a couple hundred-thousand to do anyways.

I'll try and get the records and start reading over those then.

[XutvJet]

Walk. My concern would be the rebuild. All sorts of new gaskets and sealants had to be used to the put the motor back together given that it was short block and not a long block. It just opens the window to leaks from shoddy work. Rarely do shop techs reassemble as good as the factory. Also, it sounds like a rod bearing failed. I'd be very concerned about metal getting cycled all throughout the motor, including the turbo, which would shorten motor/turbo life and/or result in another bearing failure.

There are TONS of the M240x on the market. No reason to settle for something like this.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Kunk

I appreciate it. I edited my previous post right after you replied to it. Definitely not afraid to walk from it because I know something else will pop up, but this car has a few things on it that I would want that I normally don't see and would cost me a couple hundred-thousand to do anyways.

I'll try and get the records and start reading over those then.

Be careful about the warranty too. I forget when exactly but I think starting in 2018 they changed the original warranty and then the associated CPO, the old version was a lot more comprehensive. I also have no idea but if the engine was replaced that work may be warrantied differently compared to the rest of the car.

If you review the records and they look good to you, I'd still take it to a different BMW dealer or indie shop for a PPI, would cost you $150 or so. Then you can also have any dealer in the country run the VIN for you. Hell you could do that now actually. BMW has an internal system it's like CarFax on steroids, can tell you if the car has been flagged for anything. That could void your warranty coverage, at the end of the day your biggest priority is probably avoiding surprises.