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      01-20-2017, 06:09 AM   #23
jpnh
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Its nice to know that the different knuckles exist

That said if the issue that is trying to be solved is camber then how exactly is replacing both steering knuckes more economical than installing camber plates?

Camber plate installation is trivial compared to steering knuckle replacement IMHO
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      01-20-2017, 12:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x233 View Post
It seemed strange to me, too, and there are only 2 possible explanations: either someone messed up (not aligned properly or not tightened properly) or they were damaged on impact. From looking at them, I'd say those sockets are rather flimsy. I am not sure about the locator pin. Chamfered - yes, and they get fixed in the socket by the lower chamfer against a small lip that's at the bottom of the socket. I wouldn't call that a particularly dependable construction. Because the knuckle is aluminum I can imagine how that lip can be scraped off and the shocks can slip especially, if say, they weren't properly tightened. Mine are now held mostly by the upper chamfer. The damage to the lip that was supposed to hold the struts is visible on one of the knuckles.

I was told this sometimes can happen on these cars even without any modifications to the suspension and without a major accident. Similar problems occasionally happen in F3x cars. Seems like a weak spot.

Struts... that's a logical question. I am concerned about that. No, I am not 100% sure that the struts aren't bent. The struts look OK with dust covers pulled all the way up, they do not leak, they hold firm in their place, there's no excess movement when trying to pull the wheels, and they work. If there's also a problem with the struts it is not obvious.

M3/M4 LCAs is not an option for me because my car is xDrive.

Eccentric bushings. I don't mind. I run eccentric camber adjustable bushings on my other car and they've never been a problem. Love them. I hope SuperPro bushings on this car are going to work just as well as the PowerFlex ones I have experience with.

On the edc shocks there is a pin, this locates the shock in the knuckle and prevents you from going too low, but also the shock is stepped. I don't see how you could get 7mm lower without grinding the knuckle or something,

If shocks were loose, they should settle at bottom no more than locator, if real loose would make a lot of noise. shocks are held by pinch bolts.
mine is not x drive so maybe this is different?

I see why now you used the bushings on x drive. Superpro are good quality, I have them for rear diff and subframe.
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      01-20-2017, 06:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnh View Post
Its nice to know that the different knuckles exist

That said if the issue that is trying to be solved is camber then how exactly is replacing both steering knuckes more economical than installing camber plates?

Camber plate installation is trivial compared to steering knuckle replacement IMHO
Economically, it's almost as much as getting camber plates, probably $150-200 less expensive still if we're talking about the knuckles alone, about the same cost if done together with the adjustable bushings for the control arms. At the same time, not everyone is ready for camber plates and they may not be such a great idea for a street car if one cares about comfort, noise, maintenance, etc. Reading about camber plates options for F22 it seems there's still way to go to smooth out all the imperfections. It's one more option to consider. Not everyone wants or needs camber plates on their street car.

Last edited by x233; 01-22-2017 at 05:15 AM..
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      01-21-2017, 01:48 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x233 View Post
Economically, it's almost as much as getting camber plates, probably $150-200 less expensive still if we're talking about the knuckles alone, about the same cost if done together with the adjustable bushings for the tension struts. At the same time, not everyone is ready for camber plates and they may not be such a great idea for a street car if one cares about comfort, noise, maintenance, etc. Reading about camber plates options for F22 it seems there's still way to go to smooth out all the imperfections. It's one more option to consider. Not everyone wants or needs camber plates on their street car.
Adjustable bushes in tension struts won't effect camber. If wanting more camber, put adjustable bushes in lower control arms.
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      01-21-2017, 03:13 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Adjustable bushes in tension struts won't effect camber. If wanting more camber, put adjustable bushes in lower control arms.
to make sure we are talking about the same thing, look at this: http://www.superpro.com.au/find/supe...999501544/vid-

Last edited by x233; 01-21-2017 at 03:32 AM..
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      01-21-2017, 06:12 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x233 View Post
to make sure we are talking about the same thing, look at this: http://www.superpro.com.au/find/supe...999501544/vid-
Yes - the link you are for part to lower control arm 4303.

Bush kit 4306 is for tension struts and affect castor angle.

http://www.superpro.com.au/find/supe...999501544/vid-

Glad we got that sorted....
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      01-21-2017, 02:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Yes - the link you are for part to lower control arm 4303.

Bush kit 4306 is for tension struts and affect castor angle.

http://www.superpro.com.au/find/supe...999501544/vid-

Glad we got that sorted....
Yes, "Control Arm Lower" bush in SuperPro's parlance that gives you camber adjustment (part 19 in realoem picture) and "Radius Arm" bush that gives you caster adjustment (part 10 in realoem picture). Thanks for pointing that out. I corrected that in my posts.


Last edited by x233; 01-22-2017 at 05:16 AM..
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      02-27-2017, 01:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
According realoem, both the above are fitted as standard to M135i



Whilst the above note is no repeated in Realoem on m235i, M140i or M240i, I'd imagine the -30min swivel hub carriers are stad fit to these cars. FYI Mx35i front geo is different from less models with m-sport suspension due to, IMO, this and lower ride height than regular m sport F2x cars.
I can confirm that at least for my 2015 M235ix, the -30min pivot bearings are already installed as standard! Unfortunately, I didnt figure this out until I had the new ones in my possession and one side of the existing was already dismantled
Fortunately for me, the dealer will take the parts back for full refund and I am only out the labor for R&R one side.
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      02-27-2017, 04:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinHawaiian View Post
I can confirm that at least for my 2015 M235ix, the -30min pivot bearings are already installed as standard! Unfortunately, I didnt figure this out until I had the new ones in my possession and one side of the existing was already dismantled
Fortunately for me, the dealer will take the parts back for full refund and I am only out the labor for R&R one side.
That's a bummer. I suppose it's super important then to check what's really on the car before trying such a swap. The part number is etched on the inside bottom lip of the knuckle. I think it can be checked before disassembling anything while the thing is still on the car.



ps: it's confusing that the car may not always have the parts that come up via VIN check, e.g., RealOEM says my shocks part numbers should be such as such (as per VIN) but they really are from a US 2016 model (per RealOEM site) and have different part numbers from what's "supposed" to be on a European 2015 car.

Last edited by x233; 02-28-2017 at 08:43 AM..
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      07-16-2017, 07:57 PM   #32
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I've just installed the superpro lower control arm bushings. Pretty straight forward install with pressing in the new bushing being the hardest part. I still haven't gotten the car aligned yet but from my digital bubble level, it looks like I'm sitting at around - 1.2° of camber.

Initial impressions is the steering feel changed a bit (got a bit heavier) and the initial turn in improved. However the front end now feels looser... I'll still eventually get camber plates and when that day comes, I might swap the stock bushings back in.
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      07-16-2017, 09:36 PM   #33
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This thread just makes me really annoyed that BMW didn't build in camber adjustability for the front suspension in the first place. Argh!!!
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      07-16-2017, 11:15 PM   #34
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Interesting thread, and very timely for me as I'm about to adopt one of the options for increasing negative camber - thanks x233 !

However with the pricing for those knuckles (even if I don't have them already installed on my car by the factory, which is pretty easy to check), it seems cheaper to go with the F8x longer LCAs with TSes. I got a quote from my Dealer for all the parts involve in LCA swap (less the spacers required), and it's some Euro 550 (including VAT).

As to the camber-adjustable bushes, everyone is talking about the Superpro version (part SPF4303K) - why not the Powerflex ones which are claimed to be 8% stiffer than OEM (part PFF5-1902G here: https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-ser...-3304/1.html)? Any particular reason for that? The camber adjustment range is the same for both (-0.5 - 0.5) deg...

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      07-16-2017, 11:39 PM   #35
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SPL parts will hopefully make some street version of their adjustable front control arms soon.
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      07-17-2017, 01:17 AM   #36
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Are the camber-adjustable bushes (like Powerflex) a proven solution - don't they turn (effectively changing the camber), or fail sooner than OEM ones?

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      07-17-2017, 08:25 AM   #37
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There really isn't much information out there for the adjustable bushes for our cars. I'll update on the durability and how well they stay after a while (might need a reminder). As for Superpro vs Powerflex, I chose Superpro because honestly, I've never heard of Powerflex until now. I probably would've went with powerflex since they advertise to be stiffer than stock... but then again, I just tried looking and it's pretty hard to find a Canadian/US pricing for the ones we need without having to call shops.
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      07-17-2017, 10:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
SPL parts will hopefully make some street version of their adjustable front control arms soon.
Ran full SPL arms on my 370z. Top quality.
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      07-17-2017, 11:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
Ran full SPL arms on my 370z. Top quality.
So would this;
http://www.splparts.com/products/spl...e-version.html
And this;
http://www.splparts.com/products/spl...x-e8x-f8x.html
be a viable option? Is the NVH the reason people are not using them? I assume a streetable version would have urethane or rubber bushings.
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      07-17-2017, 11:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MyM235i View Post
So would this;
http://www.splparts.com/products/spl...e-version.html
And this;
http://www.splparts.com/products/spl...x-e8x-f8x.html
be a viable option? Is the NVH the reason people are not using them? I assume a streetable version would have urethane or rubber bushings.
No idea if those will work on our platform. They probably would, but not sure if the f22 geometry would allow the needed range of adjustability/clearance though.

I noticed no additional NVH when I ran them. I know some people report it after running them awhile and have to have the ball joints rebuilt/replaced. I ran them less than a year since I didn't have the car that long.

Edit: The price of those will be $800+ then you pay for install. ROI on a proper coilover setup is better I think. Still not sure why there is such a fascination in the 2 series community of ignoring the obvious solution to get camber adjustment.

Last edited by Anthony235; 07-17-2017 at 12:02 PM..
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      07-17-2017, 02:28 PM   #41
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SPL is working on a street version of that arm
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      07-17-2017, 03:55 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
SPL is working on a street version of that arm
Any idea on timeline? I was literally cash in hand to purchase the M2 LCA/TS. I would guess I could get better adjustment and slightly more camber with SPL setup.
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      07-17-2017, 04:04 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
No idea if those will work on our platform. They probably would, but not sure if the f22 geometry would allow the needed range of adjustability/clearance though.

I noticed no additional NVH when I ran them. I know some people report it after running them awhile and have to have the ball joints rebuilt/replaced. I ran them less than a year since I didn't have the car that long.

Edit: The price of those will be $800+ then you pay for install. ROI on a proper coilover setup is better I think. Still not sure why there is such a fascination in the 2 series community of ignoring the obvious solution to get camber adjustment.
That would be spendy. $$$
I think its the reluctance to deal with EDC to go that road (coilover). Most camber plates with stock shock seem to have minor to serious shortcomings.
That leaves LCA/TS
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      07-17-2017, 06:35 PM   #44
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Camber plates are camber plates, they do exactly what they were designed for. They give you adjustable camber as the primary function, and NVH only increases slightly. Vorshlag, Dinan, and GCv3's seem to live in the upper echelon of plates. My GCv2's have served me well thus far.

For the price, plates are the best option with the most versatility.

But swapping in these other expensive options; IE. knuckles or M2/M3/M4 LCA/TS', experimenting with a geometry that wasn't intended for your car, or using more expensive aftermarket control arms are pretty silly.

But unless your a prude that doesn't really need camber, well then you don't need camber plates. If all your looking to do is drive on/off ramps fast, then you don't need any of these camber solutions and they are a waste of money. If you are looking to do more than a few HDPE's/track days and thus increase the longevity of your expensive tires then camber plates are the best solution. And get rid of your Michelin PSS tires and get into a proper 200 tread wear tire for the track.

PS. if your apt on coilovers, you can swap in any non-EDC variant coilover, and have any coder code out EDC, or code it back when you restore the OEM's.
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