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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics Suspension | Chassis | Brakes F8x M3/M4 Front Lower Control Arm Upgrade for 2-Series

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      03-27-2019, 12:38 AM   #155
aerobod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletrs View Post
I have the LCA’s installed on my M235i for 2 years now but i notice uneven tire wear on the inside. Is that because of the camber and because the control arm is longer? How to fix this?
That is expected with a higher camber setting that the longer arm gives (increasing from stock of about 0.8 degrees to 1.5 or so with the longer LCAs), the fix is to drive the car harder and wear rubber off the outside of the tyres. You will get shorter tyre life than with the stock arms if you haven’t been prematurely wearing the outer shoulders due to spirited cornering, which is one of the key reasons you would put on the longer arms to begin with.

My Caterham runs 2.7 degrees of front camber which leads to noticeable inner shoulder wear if I drive a few thousand kilometres on the highway without a lot of hard cornering, but a couple of track days evens it out again.
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      03-27-2019, 08:52 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulletrs View Post
I have the LCA's installed on my M235i for 2 years now but i notice uneven tire wear on the inside. Is that because of the camber and because the control arm is longer? How to fix this?
That is expected with a higher camber setting that the longer arm gives (increasing from stock of about 0.8 degrees to 1.5 or so with the longer LCAs), the fix is to drive the car harder and wear rubber off the outside of the tyres. You will get shorter tyre life than with the stock arms if you haven't been prematurely wearing the outer shoulders due to spirited cornering, which is one of the key reasons you would put on the longer arms to begin with.

My Caterham runs 2.7 degrees of front camber which leads to noticeable inner shoulder wear if I drive a few thousand kilometres on the highway without a lot of hard cornering, but a couple of track days evens it out again.
Great explanation.

For reference, every Spring I measure depths at four points across all tires to see which set belongs in the back. My track season ends a few months before the winters go on, I'm still hitting back roads on the weekends, but way more highway miles are driven. Even then the greatest variance inner to outer on my PS4s was half a millimeter with -1.7f and -1.9r.
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      04-01-2019, 10:20 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalker View Post
38mm OD, 13mm ID, 1mm thick
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Thanks!

So the washer goes in between the LCAs and either one of the inside sides of the tabs?

What material is the washer made of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by menncars View Post
I'm curious if anyone else needed the 1 mm spacer. Planning to go LCAS TS route and now making up my shopping list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I do these things in a heart beat but:

1) I don't like how they shift the position of the wheel around.

2) A shim/spacer is needed to make them work.

3) There is some concern that the camber puts stress on the strut hat bearing and causes it to fail prematurely.


In the spring I'll be running 245/35R18s MPS4S in the front with a higher load rating than stock. I'm hopeful the extra width and higher load rating (i.e, stiffer sidewall) will help with some of outer tread block wear.
Where are you guys sourcing your spacer/shim from?
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      04-01-2019, 11:06 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo08816 View Post
Where are you guys sourcing your spacer/shim from?
https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...-1-2-O-D-4ARX6

This is the closest I've been able to find. It's a hair thicker than 1mm.
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      04-04-2019, 10:53 AM   #159
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Has anybody installed Powerflex adjustable offset thurst arm bushings in the stock arms along with F80 LCA? In theory, one could increase length of thrust arm to push wheel back a little for less caster and less rubbing.
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      05-09-2019, 11:27 PM   #160
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Adjustable tension strut/arm bushing to get the castor back to where it was after installation of the F8x front lower control arms.

Plus or minus 1.5 degrees of adjustment.

https://www.hpashop.com/Whiteline-20...Kit-KCA473.htm
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      01-13-2020, 05:48 PM   #161
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I´ve ordered the LCA+TS. I have some questions about the right torque for the nuts.

Could anyone help here?
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      01-17-2020, 08:51 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbdeed View Post
I´ve ordered the LCA+TS. I have some questions about the right torque for the nuts.

Could anyone help here?
Lower control arms to knuckle 122 ftlb (165 Nm)
Lower control arms to subframe 74 ftlb (100 Nm)
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      01-20-2020, 09:00 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Lower control arms to knuckle 122 ftlb (165 Nm)
Lower control arms to subframe 74 ftlb (100 Nm)
I am not an expert by any means, but I am pretty sure that the the 100Nm number for LCA to subframe is the jointing torque, which is what you torque down to before you then turn another 90° on the bolt, with the car's weight on the suspension.

If I am wrong here I'd like some clarification. They do it this way so that the nut/bolt deforms to the right amount to prevent itself loosening.

I found this very difficult. I am not physically strong enough to do the final turn in the limited space under the car, even with a decently long bar. I'd say it needs a pit to get the weight on it.


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ounts/GaGZPQz2
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      01-22-2020, 11:12 PM   #164
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So from my reading of this thread, this kit:

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/

Is not just plug and play (besides getting an alignment)? There are spacers etc needed?
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      01-23-2020, 01:39 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcollier91 View Post
So from my reading of this thread, this kit:

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/

Is not just plug and play (besides getting an alignment)? There are spacers etc needed?
Most people need a small spacer about 1mm in thickness to minimize knocking
I'd also recommend replacing the nuts and bolts.
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      01-24-2020, 03:23 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyonC View Post
Most people need a small spacer about 1mm in thickness to minimize knocking
I'd also recommend replacing the nuts and bolts.
Ok, so I am going to go ahead with both LCA + TS in my 2020 m240i (stock 18s) along with dinan springs + bump stops. Is anyone having issues with this setup? I am a bit of a noob on this subject, what info would be best to relay to my installer? They may or may not need the spacers? I have LED headlights so I don't think the headlight level sensor applies to me? Does anyone have links to all the nuts and bolts needing to be replaced?

Here is the parts list I plan on providing them, anything else I need/should tell them in advance?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...e-kit/?pdk=AQE
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/KYS-100-377-3
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/KYS-100-377-1
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/31122284531/
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/31122284532/

This is my daily driver so I need reliability above all else, and want to avoid rubbing at all costs! Thanks guys.

Last edited by tcollier91; 01-24-2020 at 10:56 PM..
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      01-25-2020, 05:24 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcollier91 View Post
... Does anyone have links to all the nuts and bolts needing to be replaced?...
M240i:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_0942

If you want to replace the nuts and bolts, (which is mandated by BMW - and a good idea, these kind of bolts are designed to stretch and lock) you need:

4 x M14 combination nuts, 33306787062, labelled 9 in the M240i diagram
2 x M12 Hexagon Screw 31106885777, labelled 8 in the M240i diagram
2 x M12 Hex screw 31106797237, labelled 11 in the M240i diagram
2 x M12 Hex Nut , 33326760668 labelled 12 in the M240i diagram

(The M2 pages have the same part numbers but are labelled differently:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1123 )
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      01-25-2020, 08:13 AM   #168
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And about the headlight level sensor if the car has LEDs, is it required in that case?
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      01-25-2020, 08:18 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pbdeed View Post
And about the headlight level sensor if the car has LEDs, is it required in that case?
Great question, I think that was my last little thing I had a question about. Seems like most people that have done this have m235i with xenons.
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      01-25-2020, 08:19 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonertial View Post
M240i:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_0942

If you want to replace the nuts and bolts, (which is mandated by BMW - and a good idea, these kind of bolts are designed to stretch and lock) you need:

4 x M14 combination nuts, 33306787062, labelled 9 in the M240i diagram
2 x M12 Hexagon Screw 31106885777, labelled 8 in the M240i diagram
2 x M12 Hex screw 31106797237, labelled 11 in the M240i diagram
2 x M12 Hex Nut , 33326760668 labelled 12 in the M240i diagram

(The M2 pages have the same part numbers but are labelled differently:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1123 )
You the man. Thanks much.
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      01-26-2020, 04:53 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcollier91 View Post
Great question, I think that was my last little thing I had a question about. Seems like most people that have done this have m235i with xenons.
I have an M240i with Xenons, but I don't think there is any difference.

This, the original M240i:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_0948

and this, the LCI:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_0948

say they all have the regulating rod.

Note that you only need the Ball part and nut of the joint from the M2 rod (PN: 37146752797) - it pops off the rod. You then use your original Regulating rod with the M2 ball + nut. The M2 ball is screwed to the LCA, the M240i one clips on, and won't clip onto the M2 LCA.

This shows the M2 part:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1126
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Last edited by Sonertial; 01-26-2020 at 05:09 AM..
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      01-28-2020, 10:48 AM   #172
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I installed the TS arms and I had my first track day on Sunday.
I had the LCAs for 2 years and i can see they independently affect handling. The LCAs added camber and a willingness to turn in.
So onto the TS arms..
I will confirm that stability underbraking is much better. I am much more confident in braking zones.
There is increased feedback during cornering. It is perceptible. It does move the wheel back just slightly and centers it. I have 245/40-18 RE71Rs that needed that .5 inch of movement towards the back.

So for the money this is very good modification. It is not expensive relatively and the changes are perceptible. It doesnt make the car faster - but the increasing the drivers confidence does increase your ability to brake and corner faster.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1533822 for my buttonwillow Progress thread
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      02-11-2020, 02:12 PM   #173
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2019 BMW M240i  [0.00]
These LCAs are not an exact match to the F22 chassis. Some fitment issues, pros and cons. Pros being better steering feel and more negative camber. Can you achieve the same thing with camber plates? Going with lowering springs and looking for some more negative camber for tire wear and to fit bigger tires up front. Street and daily driver, no auto x, yet.
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      02-14-2020, 02:33 AM   #174
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After reading any LCA related thread in the earth, today i'm installing both LCAs and TS (and also some brake improvementw: Ds2500, motul rf600 and steel lines).

I'll update with my feedback after driving with the new mods.
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      02-14-2020, 02:51 PM   #175
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Well, first impressions (maybe placebo, maybe not)

- The car seems to be eager to turn. More planted in the turns.
- Firmer steering in comfort mode (I really like it).
- Less dead zone

For the moment, a few km, I like the feeling.

I have some concerns, because in the alignment, they set this:

BEFORE

Front
- Camber: -0º 42' Left -1º 25' Right
- Toe: 0º 1' Left 0º 1' Right
- Caster: 6º 29' Left 6º 32' Right

AFTER

Front
- Camber: 1º 24' Left 2º 38' Right
- Toe: 0º 3' Left 0º 3' Right
- Caster: 7º 33' Left 7º 44' Right


The gain of 1º of caster is normal? I installed the TS too

The rear is OK (~ -1º 44' , -1º 49' and toe 0º 6')

The thing is the differente between left front camber and right front camber. The left is in the range I expected (~1,5 degrees), has 1 more degree than expected.

They told me that they spin all the wheels and they found that the front right wheel is lightly bent in a point (almost not appreciable for an human eye when it is in the car).
As I had not any accident, it probably is due to a big bumper that maybe bent the suspension.

They say that if tyre wear is ok, they wouldn´t change anything but, for me, it seems like a lot of difference and negative cambier (is my DD, and I usually do spirit driving , track very ocasionally). I guess I will wear the inner faster thant the outside...

What do you think?


UPDATE: left front side is side like 4mm lower than the right side

Last edited by Pbdeed; 02-14-2020 at 03:37 PM..
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