[focal]

A lot of the added cargo space of the 2at seems to be from the height and not floor space.

I had a X1 loaner and it was easier to put stuff in but with the seat angles you didn't get as much usable floor space with boxes Coming from from the e60 that was a great trunk. The f30 trunk isn't fully flat (sides are raised and the trunk ramps up towards the seats). also messing with loading stuff. The x3 is noticeable bigger but you would be driving a ute. The best of all worlds is the touring.

[i3illol]

It's not bad looking for a mini van I guess... but for the love of god I just can't believe it's a BMW..!

[Qunadry]

If I want a Hyundai, then I will buy a Hyundai, not some over priced BMW Hyundai clone. Never thought I'd be saying this! Profits rule!

[SCOTT26]

M-Sport might make the difference?

[Neph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

M-Sport might make the difference?

Hahahah
Pig. Lipstick.

[Tåst]

Hey relax, they will make money whit Active Tourer. More money to invest CF technology and make more special M-models.









at worst they just kill the brand. M2 active tourer, lol not! ever

[bim_power]

Modern day 'Station Wagon'. Not too far off to the X1, IMO. The x1 sits just a bit higher is all.

[stefan]

BMW has made a larger Hyundai Accent.

[Qunadry]

Originally Posted by stefan

BMW has made a larger Hyundai Accent.

And much more expensive.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Holander

Hey relax, they will make money whit Active Tourer. More money to invest CF technology and make more special M-models.

Yup.

Like all mass-market manufacturers, BMW is being forced (mostly through regulation) to produce high-MPG/low-emission vehicles to offset the lower-MPG/higher-emission (read: performance) models.

Maybe if more people realized this it would help them cope with the reality of a BMW AT coming to market?

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Yup.

Like all mass-market manufacturers, BMW is being forced (mostly through regulation) to produce high-MPG/low-emission vehicles to offset the lower-MPG/higher-emission (read: performance) models.

Maybe if more people realized this it would help them cope with the reality of a BMW AT coming to market?

What are you talking about? Don't you know? BMW is exempt from complying with such rules. If BMW wanted to make any car they want, they could. The MINI brand is going to subsidize and keep them afloat as a safety net. BMW is so big and successful that they don't need volume sellers like Audi and Mercedes!

/s

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Holander

Hey relax, they will make money whit Active Tourer. More money to invest CF technology and make more special M-models.

at worst they just kill the brand. M2 active tourer, lol not! ever

Ha. The revenue from these new fwd cars will go to pad the bottom line of the "i" program. The i-cars looking to be very low volume cars. For the huge amount of money they have invested the "i" program, they need some extra revenue from somewhere.

[zarehs27]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

M-Sport might make the difference?

First let me introduce myself: I am a product designer and have studied car design...but more importantly, I am a huge BMW fan (its the only brand I ever owned for 20yrs).
This intro is just to explain that what I'm about to say is not only based on personal considerations but, as well, on some knowledge of brands, brand identities, and consumer products.
SO, on with a long rant:
-Can please someone give or teach an english 101 course to the product managers or designers that appear in the product videos: They only use three words for every new model, Dynamic,sportiness and elegant. These adjectives are being abused!...If you just hear the presentation, there's no way you'll understand if they're talking about a minivan or a futuristic electric super car....It's almost better if they don't talk at all!
I do miss Chris Bangles, as he was able to convince you of the design choices even if the car was the ugliest car ever made by any company (*cough* 7series by adrian van hooydonk..). He was a highly educated man that knew what he was talking about. At the very least, if he was still around we would have each car with its own identity not the same headlights, tail lights, bumpers copy/pasted on multiple models.
-Second, please understand that I am not against a minivan, hell, BMW can make any model that has wheels and I'll find a way to want it and the more options there are, the better it is for the fans.
If i'm on the market for any kind of a car, I'd rather have it with a BMW logo, because I'm sure that t will be an engineering masterpiece and it would be a joy to drive in its category...BUT:
Why call this a 2 series???...it doesn't even have special letters behind these numbers ( a la 3GT, 4GC..) theres nothing that says this 2 series is different than the other 2 series...which, incidentally, is one of the best designs of late...these two cars are worlds apart...they are two completely different families..so even if the financial part makes it closer to the 2, theres nothing else that makes it "deserve" the name..so why not call it a 1AT or GT?....and then convince us that its more expensive because of that (even the 1 and 2 series are closer to each other, same interior, same side design, same spirit) than the 2 series and the..euh..other 4 doors minivan 2 series!
Theres no logical sense to it.
-The rumours are also saying the next Z4 would be a Z3...again, weren't the even numbers supposed to represent coupes and cabs??..would anyone complain if the next Z4 is less expensive than this one but still called z4 and not demoted to z3??
So make a 1 series, make a 2 series, make a GT, GC or X or Z from any number but make it in a way that makes sense.
-Concerning the design direction of all BMWs, there is a huge laziness, and this can only be interpreted as an incredible amount of disrespect to their fans and clients!: it's not normal to see the 2 coupe's m-sport bumper on the 2 minivan...it's not normal that 3, 4, and 4 gc look so much alike...it's not normal to have the same seats on 1,2,3,4 series...its not normal to have the same color and trim options on all these series...even worse, have less choice on a 4 than on a 1!!!!
-Even if they belong to the same family, each series should have an identity of its own..if I choose a 4 series, its because I want a luxurious sports car, interior, dashboard, seats and colour selection should reflect that!
-All 4 series should have had the same seats as the sports seats on the convertible, all m-sport should have the option of black leather with blue stitching (it becomes a signature).
-Exterior colour choices should be different from one model to another...
colour choice makes a client choose one model over another..
Colours represent characters: some colours are sportier..so more "sporty' colours for the coupes and GC and more luxury colours for sedans and GT.
Valencia orange (sporty colour) not available on m sport on 2 series does not make sense!
-I think all coupes should have disconnected headlights (including x4 and x6) just like the 2 and 6..and this might create a recognition for the coupe models, while the rest of their bodies would share some resemblance to their respective families.
-God forgives me for what I'm about to say: Mercedes is doing a great job at this, at highlighting the individuality of their models.
-BMW is still in my opinion the best driving machine and that is its core value and i dont think this is lost, but with the increasing number of models, my advice is that they should create a road map for each model, an identity for each series and a naming scheme that makes sense.
I wish I could explain more without sounding whiny but i guess this is already too long and I do apologise for that.

[Small Yellow]

Shouldn't this be a 1 series? They create a 2 series and then exploit the hell out of it.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Yup.

Like all mass-market manufacturers, BMW is being forced (mostly through regulation) to produce high-MPG/low-emission vehicles to offset the lower-MPG/higher-emission (read: performance) models.

Maybe if more people realized this it would help them cope with the reality of a BMW AT coming to market?

I'm sure all those reasons are to some extent real (although they could achieve the same goal by increasing volume of MINI as well, I would guess), but the "brand dilution" effect that you seem to scoff at is also clearly real, as demonstrated by the overwhelmingly negative reaction by people in this board. That may not be the most rational reaction to an introduction of a fairly harmless family hauler, but then paying $50K for what is essentially a compact car isn't exactly a rational decision either. It's a very emotional market is what I'm saying, and giving up on the idea that all BMWs are RWD with 50:50 weight distribution is NOT something that is trivial.

Furthermore, the "Cayenne" line of apology, that selling something like this would allow BMW to pour more money on the enthusiast cars that we all know are the cars BMW secretly care about, is frankly BS. What did Porsche do with all that Cayenne money? Did they use it to develop a more affordable or more purist sports car? Nope. First they used it to run an in-house hedgefund in the hopes of taking over VW, and after that backfired they used it to develop yet another SUV below the Cayenne. In the mean time, they also claim they can't afford to have another sports car below the ever expensive Boxster, which in itself has become more substantial but less pure.

So why wouldn't that happen to BMW? Does anyone really think that when these "new brand loyalist" that got brought in thanks to the 2AT would suddenly want to graduate to some raw feeling purist sports sedan? Of course not. They would want a sporty car that is still way more refined and comfortable than most enthusiasts would like. Then would BMW flip a bird to them and focus on the small number of enthusiasts? Of course not. They will chase the money then just like they are now. Nothing wrong with that, it's a business, but lets not kid ourselves that "expanding the customer base" will have no effect on their sportier offerings. It IS a dilution of what the brand used to be, and it WILL have an effect on their entire product line up in the long run.

Which is probably just what they need to be ever more profitable, especially given the Chinese taste in automobiles.

[flyga3]

With FWD and 4-Doors, this fits the new even/odd number naming convention perfectly! Someone in marketing is using too much sauce and lost it. This should be a 1 series.

And HUD in this thing but not the M235 or 228? Boooooo!

But what's good is the interior. Like the gear shift its simplistic. The HUD is cool. Looks like they took one from the VW play book and placed the trunk release in the door. Looks like a Golf to me.

So is BMW chasing VW now?

[Mr Marcus]

It's clearly for people with more children than taste

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by Propagator

I'm sure all those reasons are to some extent real (although they could achieve the same goal by increasing volume of MINI as well, I would guess), but the "brand dilution" effect that you seem to scoff at is also clearly real, as demonstrated by the overwhelmingly negative reaction by people in this board. That may not be the most rational reaction to an introduction of a fairly harmless family hauler, but then paying $50K for what is essentially a compact car isn't exactly a rational decision either. It's a very emotional market is what I'm saying, and giving up on the idea that all BMWs are RWD with 50:50 weight distribution is NOT something that is trivial.

Furthermore, the "Cayenne" line of apology, that selling something like this would allow BMW to pour more money on the enthusiast cars that we all know are the cars BMW secretly care about, is frankly BS. What did Porsche do with all that Cayenne money? Did they use it to develop a more affordable or more purist sports car? Nope. First they used it to run an in-house hedgefund in the hopes of taking over VW, and after that backfired they used it to develop yet another SUV below the Cayenne. In the mean time, they also claim they can't afford to have another sports car below the ever expensive Boxster, which in itself has become more substantial but less pure.

So why wouldn't that happen to BMW? Does anyone really think that when these "new brand loyalist" that got brought in thanks to the 2AT would suddenly want to graduate to some raw feeling purist sports sedan? Of course not. They would want a sporty car that is still way more refined and comfortable than most enthusiasts would like. Then would BMW flip a bird to them and focus on the small number of enthusiasts? Of course not. They will chase the money then just like they are now. Nothing wrong with that, it's a business, but lets not kid ourselves that "expanding the customer base" will have no effect on their sportier offerings. It IS a dilution of what the brand used to be, and it WILL have an effect on their entire product line up in the long run.

Which is probably just what they need to be ever more profitable, especially given the Chinese taste in automobiles.

Bingo. 100% spot on.

[ezmaass]

Come on BMW! Enough! I'm sensing more and more selling out every day. Front wheel drive??? Three cylinder engines producing 130hp?? Sure, and let's slap some M sport with logos galore on that thing. How is anything "ultimate" about this car? Yes, I'm sure BMW will make the car nice for its class... but if they need to sacrifice things like a decent sporty engine and RWD to sell into this new market, then they're selling out IMHO. The fact that M logos should even appear on a three cylinder FWD car is beyond me... I'm seriously disappointed in BMW.

[ezmaass]

If I wanted to drive a brand that believes in one size fits all I'd go to Honda, Toyota, or even VW. BMW was never interested in satisfying the every man... but today they surely are, and they're willing to throw their heritage under the bus to do it. You can't be the "ultimate" driving machine if you're simply trying to offer a solution to everyone. FWD... 130hp 3 cylinder engine. That's fine for some, but it's in no way ultimate. Maybe once you slap 10 M badges on it that changes?

[fndrsn]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

If I wanted to drive a brand that believes in one size fits all I'd go to Honda, Toyota, or even VW. BMW was never interested in satisfying the every man... but today they surely are, and they're willing to throw their heritage under the bus to do it. You can't be the "ultimate" driving machine if you're simply trying to offer a solution to everyone. FWD... 130hp 3 cylinder engine. That's fine for some, but it's in no way ultimate. Maybe once you slap 10 M badges on it that changes?

I think if you lived in here Europe, where way more 520d's are sold than 550i's are sold, you'd understand that there's actually a huge market for this sort of car, they're only doing the logical thing by catering to the market.

I don't see what the fuss is about, it doesn't make any of the other cars in their range less great

[ADGrant]

Originally Posted by bim_power

Modern day 'Station Wagon'. Not too far off to the X1, IMO. The x1 sits just a bit higher is all.

Totally different car. The X1 is basically an E91 station wagon with slightly raised suspension and a little bit of SUV styling. It's available with an inline six and hydraulic power steering. It's the last semi affordable "real" BMW.