[335BOY]

Originally Posted by g18galvin

For fun I wanted to see what the 1 series owners thought of the 2 series,
I went over on the forum and searched m235i and started reading a few threads and I was surprised to see all the hate of the 2er. Although our cars got relatively good reviews across the experts, The 1ers hate the look and the biggest complaint was the electric power steering felt numb and most would never trade their e82.

I'm coming from an M roadster, although I miss the light nimble car,I feel my m235i is superior.

Your thoughts?

See post #3. Same everywhere.

[Delnari]

Love is blind

What would you expect from a bunch of entry level BMW owners, hehehe,

[Cavpilot2k]

There is some vitriol there, but for the most part I find it pretty objective (I come from that site and still drive a 135).
I started hanging on the 2 site because my 135 lease is up in march and I wanted to learn a bit about the pros and cons of the 235. Then I test drove one.
My two cents: I think fans of the 1 get annoyed that the 2 is proclaimed as the successor to, or the "perfected" 1. Well it isn't. It's bigger, heavier, (both negatives to myself and a lot of 1er fans) and has inferior steering as well as increased body roll. It is simply another car, and not the successor to the 1er that many of us love, so part of it is a backlash to the marketing of the car.

On the plus side, the 235 is faster and corners slightly better despite the increased body roll (but most of us don't like that because body roll FEELS sloppy, regardless of how effective it is), plus it is a little more stable (the upside to the increased dimensions and weight).

Looks: it's a draw. The front and definitely headlights of the 235 are better looking. The profile view is a draw, and the rear of the 135 looks better (mainly due to the blandness of the 235's butt).

For me though, to call the 235 a "perfected" 135 is laughable. I will most likely not be getting a 235 when my lease is up because I don't think the 235 is enough of an upgrade to warrant the cost of a new one versus a lightly used CPO 135, and is, in fact, a downgrade in a few areas.

Don't get me wrong. The 235 is a great car. I like it. So too is the 135.
For me, the upgrade will come in the form of the M2. THAT should be a noticeable difference.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Love is blind

What would you expect from a bunch of entry level BMW owners, hehehe,

It always bugged me that the 1er was called the "entry-level" BMW, because my 135 stickered at $44k+. The 328 is and was much cheaper. Sure, there was the 128, which came in slightly less than the 328, but not by much.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, but $44k is not entry level for BMW (back in 2012).

[hyperzulu]

It depends how you look at it. Is your BMW a toy you use to carve out a track or the highway on your way to work with occasional thrill seeking? If it's your track car, the 135 has the right recipe (especially if you have one with the N54). Modified and tuned, I don't think any 2 series right now could beat it on its best day. But if the car is your daily driver, the 2 series is going to feel like $50k...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by abirmaher

As someone who came from a 135i, they are right on the steering feel. I preferred how the 1 felt. In every other way though I prefer the 2. Thats my 2 cents.

I would agree, and also say that I preferred the "unrulyness" overall of the 1er. And the suspension felt stiffer to me - the 2 is very floaty and squishy.

At least mine is.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

There is some vitriol there, but for the most part I find it pretty objective (I come from that site and still drive a 135).
I started hanging on the 2 site because my 135 lease is up in march and I wanted to learn a bit about the pros and cons of the 235. Then I test drove one.
My two cents: I think fans of the 1 get annoyed that the 2 is proclaimed as the successor to, or the "perfected" 1. Well it isn't. It's bigger, heavier, (both negatives to myself and a lot of 1er fans) and has inferior steering as well as increased body roll. It is simply another car, and not the successor to the 1er that many of us love, so part of it is a backlash to the marketing of the car.

On the plus side, the 235 is faster and corners slightly better despite the increased body roll (but most of us don't like that because body roll FEELS sloppy, regardless of how effective it is), plus it is a little more stable (the upside to the increased dimensions and weight).

Looks: it's a draw. The front and definitely headlights of the 235 are better looking. The profile view is a draw, and the rear of the 135 looks better (mainly due to the blandness of the 235's butt).

For me though, to call the 235 a "perfected" 135 is laughable. I will most likely not be getting a 235 when my lease is up because I don't think the 235 is enough of an upgrade to warrant the cost of a new one versus a lightly used CPO 135, and is, in fact, a downgrade in a few areas.

Don't get me wrong. The 235 is a great car. I like it. So too is the 135.
For me, the upgrade will come in the form of the M2. THAT should be a noticeable difference.

You explained my feelings better than I did above. +1 on many of your counts.

The 2er is an upgrade in terms of smoothness and overall improved looks and cabin feel. I bought mine sight unseen and had to get something because my 135 lease was already extended - I had the first 2er in Indiana...if I had been able to drive one prior to taking delivery, I am not sure I would have gone through with it. I was expecting to feel superior to both of my 135s, and while I was excited and it's a nice car, my enthusiasm diminished quickly for it.

It hasn't lived up to the intense "hype", at least in my opinion. Still a good car. Just too soft, floaty, and uninvolved for me.

And the N54 in my first 135 was a better engine than either N55 I've had - in my 135 or 235 - in terms of driving pleasure. Used more gas, but always felt much stronger.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Love is blind

What would you expect from a bunch of entry level BMW owners, hehehe,

Classy

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

It hasn't lived up to the intense "hype", at least in my opinion. Still a good car. Just too soft, floaty, and uninvolved for me.

I would say that's how I felt too. I was supremely excited for the 235, but it just didn't deliver the goods for me (I want a small, fun DD, which is what my 135 is). I am now looking to the M2 to give me what I was looking for in the 235 (and then some) but didn't get.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

It depends how you look at it. Is your BMW a toy you use to carve out a track or the highway on your way to work with occasional thrill seeking? If it's your track car, the 135 has the right recipe (especially if you have one with the N54 and DCT). Modified and tuned, I don't think any 2 series right now could beat it on its best day. But if the car is your daily driver, the 2 series is going to feel like $50k...

I use my 135 as a daily driver. Honestly other than mild updating, I don't see much difference in the cabins of the 135 vs 235. They are almost identical other than the sense of extra space in the 235, which I personally couldn't care about. If I wanted space, I would get an Escalade and call it a day.

[Qunadry]

I do no hate the 2 series. To me,the 2 series is basically the "new" 3 series or at least what the 3 series was when I bought my first BMW, a 2000 323Ci. My next BMW was a 2007 335i coupe and I was not very pleased with it, much larger and softer than the 323Ci. The 135i provided the driving pleasure of the 323Ci, which was lacking with the 335i. I see the M235i as the successor to the 2007 335i. It will appeal to many and is the finest BMW produced today. It just is not the car for me.

[CreativeFuel]

I'm one of the crazy people that like both. For me, finding a 1 series with low miles and a manual transmission was like finding a needle in a haystack. There were simply none in my area for sale, and I'm too OCD to buy one long distance.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I use my 135 as a daily driver. Honestly other than mild updating, I don't see much difference in the cabins of the 135 vs 235. They are almost identical other than the sense of extra space in the 235, which I personally couldn't care about. If I wanted space, I would get an Escalade and call it a day.

Sorry I was remembering the pre-LCI interior of the e82. I don't have a lot of seat time in the newer 1 series. From the looks of it, you may be right. Under the skin there are other improvements, but I don't know that they'd warrant the need to go and sell your 1 series for a 2 series. On a lease, it's a toss up. I think if you're going from a 1 to a 2, it could be disappointing. You bought the 1 for what it was and the 2 is few of those things.

I think I agree with the above post, the 2 is the new (old) 3. It's a bit smaller than an e92 and perhaps a hair lighter, but overall not by much. I think it's the e92 for those who think the f32 is too big and felt the e82 was too small. At least that is how it fits me. I felt the e92 was slightly too big, but never felt quite right in an e82. Just right for me - a more tossable e92.

[tccox]

Originally Posted by CreativeFuel

I'm one of the crazy people that like both. For me, finding a 1 series with low miles and a manual transmission was like finding a needle in a haystack. There were simply none in my area for sale, and I'm too OCD to buy one long distance.

Naw, you're not the only one. As I said, if my 128 had been a manual I'd still be driving it. No need for anyone to trash either car.There were things I liked better on my 128, there are things I like better on my 228

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I think fans of the 1 get annoyed that the 2 is proclaimed as the successor to, or the "perfected" 1. Well it isn't. It's bigger, heavier, (both negatives to myself and a lot of 1er fans) and has inferior steering as well as increased body roll. It is simply another car, and not the successor to the 1er that many of us love, so part of it is a backlash to the marketing of the car.

Marketing is what BMW says. Their M235i marketing points to the 2002, not the 1 series.

The "successor" claims that are annoying you aren't marketing coming from BMW, but all of the independent reviews that have been done by car fanatics like those below. Of course many are drawing comparisons to the 1 series, but others feel it has a greater kinship to the 1 series M, E46 M3 or performance numbers matching the last model V8 M3.

These aren't biased/fanboy 2-series owner remarks below.
They're professional car reviewers. And there's a consistent message.

**************************************************
(copied from an earlier post)

Road and Track
"Actually, our biggest complaint about the old 1 Series was how it looked—and BMW definitely fixed that. The 2 is far better looking than the 1 Series it replaces."
"It’s quiet, and adaptive shocks mean this car doesn’t pogo down the road like the old 135i did. It also doesn’t seem to crash over big bumps. This is a major improvement."

Oliver Ganser, Product Strategy and Market Intelligence Manager at BMW
"What we have seen on our tracks is that this car [M235i] is faster than a 1M Coupe."

Car & Driver
"It’s simple math: The 2-series replaced the 1-series and it’s twice the fun."
"the M235i is neither a fully aggro M car nor just a day-to-day standard sports coupe. Its character is in between the two. And that’s . . . well, that’s perfect."

Motor Trend
"The M235i is one of the best-driving BMWs in recent memory, on par with the 1M and the last-generation M3 not only in performance standards, but also in how much it makes you smile. You no longer have to be jealous of orange 1Ms running around your neighborhood. Considering how much better the M235i looks, it might even go the other way around."

Auto Guide
"The new M235i may lack a smidge of the no-compromises performance found in the 1 M Coupe, but it is a better all-around package."
"Having yet to try the new M3 or M4, we can safely say the M235i is the most engaging car in the BMW lineup today."

Top Gear
"But didn't you eventually find the odd crack in the M135i's aura of perfection?
Yup, when we gave it pasting on really corkscrewing roads, it started to heave about and the steering got a bit hazy. But the M235i cuts through that fog. Even compared with the M135i, the springs and dampers are tautened, which cuts roll, keeps the body under better control and sharpens the steering to boot. This new Coupe is properly bolted to the road."

Foxnews
"The all-new M235i isn’t exactly a direct replacement for the 1-Series M Coupe, which was a truly unique specialty piece, but it delivers pretty much the same performance and is a much better car overall."
"The interior grows slightly, but it’s still not much more of a 2+2 with tight rear seats. The quality stuffed in there, however, is several generations better than the old 1-Series, which was all hard plastic and ho-hum trim."

Cars.com
"The BMW M235i subcompact coupe is bigger, better looking, faster and more fun than the 135i it replaces"

The Motor Report
"The 2 Series is the beautiful swan to the 1 Series Coupe’s ugly duckling."

CarbonOctane.com
"The BMW 2 Series replaces the 1 series and while the look of the BMW 1 Series was not to everyones cup of tea, this new BMW M235i is a stunner
"Words just fail to describe how good this car is…"

**************************************************

You may not agree with all of the above comments, but there is consistency above, regardless of publication or continent.
One thing you can't argue…the M235i has certainly gotten a lot of positive attention, both for the car and the brand.

[BMW269]

I find the 2er more feminine in looks, M2 should solve the problem. Anyway most hate is irrational. It is more rational in M3 vs. M4 case, where it is more about FI I6 vs. NA V8.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by g18galvin

For fun I wanted to see what the 1 series owners thought of the 2 series,
-------------------------------

Your thoughts?

Fuggedaboutit. This is nothing compared to the hate we new Z4 owners got from Z3 owners back in early 2003.
Got a 228i xDrive ragtop on order - coming from a 1er ragtop and X1 .

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I would say that's how I felt too. I was supremely excited for the 235, but it just didn't deliver the goods for me (I want a small, fun DD, which is what my 135 is). I am now looking to the M2 to give me what I was looking for in the 235 (and then some) but didn't get.

Me too on the M2 - and I will at least have time in this instance to drive it and check it out more thoroughly first.

Let's hope for the best with the M2.

And to blade, on the list above - I wonder how many people compared the N54 135 to the 235. That, to me, is the comparison I care about, but yes - you're correct that the magazines and news outlets have been pretty complimentary of the car. Those compliments just don't coincide with my daily expereinces in the car they're talking about - that's all.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

There is some vitriol there, but for the most part I find it pretty objective (I come from that site and still drive a 135).
I started hanging on the 2 site because my 135 lease is up in march and I wanted to learn a bit about the pros and cons of the 235. Then I test drove one.
My two cents: I think fans of the 1 get annoyed that the 2 is proclaimed as the successor to, or the "perfected" 1. Well it isn't. It's bigger, heavier, (both negatives to myself and a lot of 1er fans) and has inferior steering as well as increased body roll. It is simply another car, and not the successor to the 1er that many of us love, so part of it is a backlash to the marketing of the car.

On the plus side, the 235 is faster and corners slightly better despite the increased body roll (but most of us don't like that because body roll FEELS sloppy, regardless of how effective it is), plus it is a little more stable (the upside to the increased dimensions and weight).

Looks: it's a draw. The front and definitely headlights of the 235 are better looking. The profile view is a draw, and the rear of the 135 looks better (mainly due to the blandness of the 235's butt).

For me though, to call the 235 a "perfected" 135 is laughable. I will most likely not be getting a 235 when my lease is up because I don't think the 235 is enough of an upgrade to warrant the cost of a new one versus a lightly used CPO 135, and is, in fact, a downgrade in a few areas.

Don't get me wrong. The 235 is a great car. I like it. So too is the 135.
For me, the upgrade will come in the form of the M2. THAT should be a noticeable difference.

I don't know that the 2 Series was marketed as the "successor" to or an improvement on the 1 Series. I understood it to be the car that replaced the 1 Series since the 1 was discontinued. I think you're right. It is a different car and therefore a head to head comparison like you might do with different MY's of the same car, is not really legitimate.

[dalrx]

I think my 228i msport is superior to my previous 128I in all but steering feel and engine sound. But those are small things..The 2 is just so much more on all levels.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

It always bugged me that the 1er was called the "entry-level" BMW, because my 135 stickered at $44k+. The 328 is and was much cheaper. Sure, there was the 128, which came in slightly less than the 328, but not by much.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, but $44k is not entry level for BMW (back in 2012).

Factor in the price of inflation, the 1 Series is actually worth MORE than a current F22.

Just to feed the trolls more.

[akuan99]

Originally Posted by dalrx

I think my 228i msport is superior to my previous 128I in all but steering feel and engine sound. But those are small things..The 2 is just so much more on all levels.

I'm not sure I would call steering feel and engine sound as being small things.
They are both big deal for me.
I'm still trying to find an effective way to improve engine sound of my 228i M sport.