[dharo1]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Its an opinion based on my understanding of software. Wrong or right they did a poor job targeting me as a consumer by how they are marketing their device. Funny how I wrote up 2 different scenarios based on the marketing used by the 2 vendors and no one seemed to reply to it. As for me a regular joe is not going to convince me that I'm wrong. I understand systems integration. Anything that is manipulating sensor metrics for fake information to get the ECU to behave differently is not integrating. You are automating a bypass on tasks that typically would be used to see if something wrong with the car. If you think this is no big deal then go for it. If Dinan is doing the same thing I honestly don't care because here I'm buying a service (something goes wrong they "should" fix it). The other vendor is selling you a device that you need to remove prior to bringing in for a break/fix.

Again some of us understand things differently. Perfect example....look who's in office today how many fell for "change"

Please, please, no politics. Because although you have been responding and responding in this thread and sometimes praising your knowledge and understanding of the subject of discussion....your last comment shows your limited knowledge on how government in this country an around the world work...because people fell for WoMD and in the 2000s, Communism in 70s 80s, and we can go on and on...but the world is much more complicated.

[BLK235iNJ]

I purposely did that because I'm honestly getting sick of repeating myself. I'm a bit OCDish so I keep responding. I'm not big on politics I just don't want a TuneOMD.

m

Originally Posted by dharo1

Please, please, no politics. Because although you have been responding and responding in this thread and sometimes praising your knowledge and understanding of the subject of discussion....your last comment shows your limited knowledge on how government in this country an around the world work...because people fell for WoMD and in the 2000s, Communism in 70s 80s, and we can go on and on...but the world is much more complicated.

[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I disagree but I'm sure whatever I say it doesn't really matter.

It seems we all have our own logic for justifying our decisions. I'm a facts/math guy... there is a huge gap in your "boosting the turbo beyond its intended purpose" comment.... there's much more to it than that. This isn't my first time tuning a car. The tune is everything if not the most important piece. Do it wrong and you blow up the car.

Lets do a simple exercise. I'm in sales (i sell technology). If i were to come into your business and say.

1. Hey mr customer I have a product that will make your servers/computers work 15% faster than they do today. You will overclock the crap out of your processors. Our program tricks your servers into thinking they are running cool and efficient. Here's the only issue. If your server/computer breaks when you call HP/CISCO/DELL/ETC you have to remove my program. If they find it your support contract is voided. Good thing is that we are cheaper than the rest.

2. Hey mr customer I have a product that will make your servers/computers work 10% faster than they do today. You will safely increase the performance of your processors and memory. Our program works with the internal monitoring tools to ensure it is running cool and efficient. If your server/computer breaks when you call HP/CISCO/DELL/ETC let the support engineer know that you run our part or even better call us directly. We are not cheaper but we stand behind our product.

Which would you choose?

You nailed it. Perfect analogy.

[Cybertronic]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

You nailed it. Perfect analogy.

You haven't been reading the thread have you...

[dharo1]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I purposely did that because I'm honestly getting sick of repeating myself. I'm a bit OCDish so I keep responding. I'm not big on politics I just don't want a TuneOMD.

m

Lets keep the discussion going. I'm waiting for dyno results from someone with dinan tune...

[BLK235iNJ]

I should be getting this thing installed early next week. I have an obstacle:

1. Vendor 1 seems like the right choice only thing the guy is around $300 more expensive, local and a bit too busy (he's hard to even put a deposit down with). Not sure he'll get me done next week

2. Vendor 2 is in brooklyn and is promising to have the parts installed by early next week (pain in the ass to travel there). hard to believe (i have trust issues) by early next week. dinan has been slow processing my order. I'd hate to book in brooklyn and then have them tell me that the parts are delayed.

mother fr... nothing is easy. to top this my wife got my fn mustang hit today (car is in garage most of time).



I want this done next week since I'm traveling for business the following week (VMworld for my fellow geeks). On the 30th I'm bringing the car to a show.

Originally Posted by dharo1

Lets keep the discussion going. I'm waiting for dyno results from someone with dinan tune...

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Cybertronic

You haven't been reading the thread have you...

LOL. See what I meant several pages back about Dinan's target demographic?

[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. See what I meant several pages back about Dinan's target demographic?

Actually I'm MPPK's target demographic: I want factory quality, a no BS warranty, and I'm not terribly price conscious. The 435i is my DD, I have a 997S for weekends to get my speed/sportiness fix. I just want the BMW to keep up with traffic - albeit briskly. And, it looks beautiful and elegant

Mostly I believe that BMW knows best what the optimal stress level is for these engines. It's easy to introduce overboost, as cheap horsepower, when you don't financial back it. And...by "don't financially back it" I mean both the inexpensive piggyback vendors...and...those owners who choose to hide its existence.

[hyperzulu]

This thread wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the stupid potshots people keep taking and the perception that what you buy means dick. "You guys paying for this overpriced crap are n00bs! Too much money, not enough brains." -- "You cheapo poor folks buying your cheapy tunes are going to blow up your engines trying to go the cheap route. Oh, don't you wish you were rich as me! I drive five million dollar cars. This BMW is just my pair of roller skates." STFU the whole lot of you.

[divisionbell77]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I disagree but I'm sure whatever I say it doesn't really matter.

It seems we all have our own logic for justifying our decisions. I'm a facts/math guy... there is a huge gap in your "boosting the turbo beyond its intended purpose" comment.... there's much more to it than that. This isn't my first time tuning a car. The tune is everything if not the most important piece. Do it wrong and you blow up the car.

Lets do a simple exercise. I'm in sales (i sell technology). If i were to come into your business and say.

1. Hey mr customer I have a product that will make your servers/computers work 15% faster than they do today. You will overclock the crap out of your processors. Our program tricks your servers into thinking they are running cool and efficient. Here's the only issue. If your server/computer breaks when you call HP/CISCO/DELL/ETC you have to remove my program. If they find it your support contract is voided. Good thing is that we are cheaper than the rest.

2. Hey mr customer I have a product that will make your servers/computers work 10% faster than they do today. You will safely increase the performance of your processors and memory. Our program works with the internal monitoring tools to ensure it is running cool and efficient. If your server/computer breaks when you call HP/CISCO/DELL/ETC let the support engineer know that you run our part or even better call us directly. We are not cheaper but we stand behind our product.

Which would you choose?

1. Because you made up the difference between one being safe and one not.

[divisionbell77]

Originally Posted by five3three

Yes, the ones I have seen have involved folks who were flagged in the system at some point and were denied when they went in for warranty work. If this happened during a service visit or a warranty visit makes no difference as they weren't told at what point they got flagged in the system. I never once claimed it was on the E90 forums either so your comment about activity there is pointless.

You claimed that nobody has ever had any problems with this...ever. How about you prove that?

To me it's also common sense. So, you want to believe that a dealer that will flag you for coming in for service work will turn a blind eye if they see you have a modification that would void your warranty because you are only in for a maintenance visit and not warranty work? Really? You have convinced yourself that?

To me a JB4 is worth nothing. I wouldn't put it on for free. I'm on this particular thread because I would like to see how the Dinan fares on its own merits. These sideline discussions have gotten pointless. I don't care how it stacks up to JB4.

My claim was for normal maintenance. Get it straight. I highlighted it repeatedly. Do NOT try to change it now that you can't provide a link.

e90 is one of, if not the, largest N54/N55 foum for turning. I have not in all my years there seen a single person say they were flagged for maintenance. The comment is hardly pointless and carries a load more than 'various forums people have been flagged.'

[rickinaz]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

This thread wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the stupid potshots people keep taking and the perception that what you buy means dick. "You guys paying for this overpriced crap are n00bs! Too much money, not enough brains." -- "You cheapo poor folks buying your cheapy tunes are going to blow up your engines trying to go the cheap route. Oh, don't you wish you were rich as me! I drive five million dollar cars. This BMW is just my pair of roller skates." STFU the whole lot of you.

Ouch! What brought this on? Me?

Honestly, I suspect that the Burger and Dinan tunes are almost interchangeable technically. To me it ALL comes done to integrity. If you bypass the warranty (which is basically the price gap between the two tunes), you are rolling the dice. Which is fine, unless you purposely try to defraud the manufacturer by repeatedly removing/reinstalling. Come on guys, those of you that do it know that it is wrong. I am not a perfect human being by a long shot, but I tend to stumble in to my imperfections, and try not to incorporate them into my behavior intentionally.

It's not about who is cheap, or poor. It's about honesty.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by rickinaz

Ouch! What brought this on? Me?

Honestly, I suspect that the Burger and Dinan tunes are almost interchangeable technically. To me it ALL comes done to integrity. If you bypass the warranty (which is basically the price gap between the two tunes), you are rolling the dice. Which is fine, unless you purposely try to defraud the manufacturer by repeatedly removing/reinstalling. Come on guys, those of you that do it know that it is wrong. I am not a perfect human being by a long shot, but I tend to stumble in to my imperfections, and try not to incorporate them into my behavior intentionally.

It's not about who is cheap, or poor. It's about honesty.

It's not you. The whole thread has been this way.

But to your point, and something I said previously, take for instance the case of someone who had a tune on their car which they ran modestly, took it in for service and the tech and SA flagged the car for having a tune because the customer left it on and the SA was feeling like being a boy scout. Customer removes the tune a year later and coincidentally has an issue with the car twelve months after that is completely unrelated to the tune being on the car. BMW denies warranty claim on the previous flag, which the customer was unaware of and is forced to enter into litigation to be made right. Is that fair?

[Delnari]

Stay tune for next week after my session with the Dyno on Thursday to see if the Dinan Stage 1 gives numbers as good or better than the removed "N55 Stage 1" (BMS updated naming). Will be doing the installation myself which makes me feel a lot better then having someone else do it. Hell, I hate it when I get my free oil change.

Just received the installation instructions (.pdf) with color photos showing the connections to the ECU and back to the Dtronic box. Looking at this I have to stop and wonder why the JB4 harness is not done this way. If would make those on the fence getting the JB4 jump at it given how easy the plug-n-play harness system is to install. Sure it might add another $100 to the cost, but seeing how easy it is to install and even uninstall it would be well worth it. I went with the N55 Stage 1 originally because it was like this install/uninstall and see no reason why BMS can't do the same type of harness.

[dharo1]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Stay tune for next week after my session with the Dyno on Thursday to see if the Dinan Stage 1 gives numbers as good or better than the removed "N55 Stage 1" (BMS updated naming). Will be doing the installation myself which makes me feel a lot better then having someone else do it. Hell, I hate it when I get my free oil change.

Just received the installation instructions (.pdf) with color photos showing the connections to the ECU and back to the Dtronic box. Looking at this I have to stop and wonder why the JB4 harness is not done this way. If would make those on the fence getting the JB4 jump at it given how easy the plug-n-play harness system is to install. Sure it might add another $100 to the cost, but seeing how easy it is to install and even uninstall it would be well worth it. I went with the N55 Stage 1 originally because it was like this install/uninstall and see no reason why BMS can't do the same type of harness.

Wait, so they let you do the install? No issues with warranty? If for whatever reason something goes wrong either because of human error or factory defect, what happens???

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by dharo1

Wait, so they let you do the install? No issues with warranty? If for whatever reason something goes wrong either because of human error or factory defect, what happens???

You remove it and ask the guys on N54tuning how to clear codes.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Just received the installation instructions (.pdf) with color photos showing the connections to the ECU and back to the Dtronic box. Looking at this I have to stop and wonder why the JB4 harness is not done this way. If would make those on the fence getting the JB4 jump at it given how easy the plug-n-play harness system is to install. Sure it might add another $100 to the cost, but seeing how easy it is to install and even uninstall it would be well worth it. I went with the N55 Stage 1 originally because it was like this install/uninstall and see no reason why BMS can't do the same type of harness.

It's obvious that Dinan's unit has more in common with Burger's Stage 1 than the JB4. Most simple, watered-down explanation why both the Dinan and BMS Stage 1 are plug-n-play because they are limited in what they do. The JB4 alters a few more paramaters and allows for a significant amount of monitoring and control, and therefor is a slightly more involved installation. You can't have JB4 capability and functionality with a plug-n-play unit.

[Delnari]

The Dinan connects to over 2/3 of ECU connections (116 pins out of 164 possible). How many are actually being used only Dinan can say for sure. Given the size of the Dtronic ECU I believe they are adjusting many inputs; more so than the few connections the JB4 uses in comparison. Remember too that with our modern BMW engines have drivetrains and suspension systems that also get adjusted electronically based on the engine parameters as well. With Bluetooth technology finally being introduced with the new Dinan system they too will be offering many features via the upcoming phone app.

[chaddy74]

Cool thanks what sensors does the Dinan solution plug into over the JB4? Does anyone actually know ?

Originally Posted by Delnari

The Dinan connects to over 2/3 of ECU connections (116 pins out of 164 possible). How many are actually being used only Dinan can say for sure. Given the size of the Dtronic ECU I believe they are adjusting many inputs; more so than the few connections the JB4 uses in comparison. Remember too that with our modern BMW engines have drivetrains and suspension systems that also get adjusted electronically based on the engine parameters as well. With Bluetooth technology finally being introduced with the new Dinan system they too will be offering many features via your phone app.

[Delnari]

Originally Posted by dharo1

Wait, so they let you do the install? No issues with warranty? If for whatever reason something goes wrong either because of human error or factory defect, what happens???

The Dinan system is plug-n-play enough that they feel your average wrench turner can do the install. The instructions are very specific about procedure of the install and which connections need to be removed and re-installed in a specific order. The last step involves checking for any engine fault codes that might appear after installation and how to clear them. Not the 5 minute N55 Stage 1 install, but I feel it can be done in 1 hour or less. And as confirmed earlier today, the system is transferable to another car (same software load if same make/model vehicle) so reselling after use is an option.

It is lot simpler then learning how to code your car for the first time. If you get really stuck on a problem you can call Dinan directly or take it to an authorized Dinan agent for help.

[Delnari]

Originally Posted by chaddy74

Cool thanks what sensors does the Dinan solution plug into over the JB4 ?

Again the Dinan connects to 2/3 of the possible ECU connections; 116 pins (not all are being used). The diagram shows the 3 banks of connections to the ECU, Dinan connects directly to the banks 2 and 3. Bank 1 is not being used by Dinan system.

[chaddy74]

Excellent thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Delnari

Again the Dinan connects to 2/3 of the possible ECU connections; 116 pins (not all are being used). The diagram shows the 3 banks of connections to the ECU, Dinan connects directly to the banks 2 and 3. Bank 1 is not being used by Dinan system.

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