[OldCrow7xx]

Hey team- I know very little about suspension but I am learning it was alot of the reason I loved my Honda Civic Si 4 Door.

My car is pretty fast on the street now, so much so I think it may be time to take it to the track or the strip to get my fix safely.

To that end, does anyone here put roll cages in their cars? does it improve performance and safety? I would like to do some 1/4 mile pulls, and learn to drift it now that it is rear wheel drive.

Any advice is appreciated.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

To that end, does anyone here put roll cages in their cars? does it improve performance and safety? I would like to do some 1/4 mile pulls, and learn to drift it now that it is rear wheel drive.

Any advice is appreciated.

They're generally not put into street cars. They make getting in and out a bit of a chore, and there's always the risk of hitting some part of your body on the cage (esp. your head! ). I wouldn't even want to contact roll bar padding in a wreck.

They do improve safety, and they'll improve performance by making the car's chassis stiffer. They also add quite a bit of weight.

Here's a nearby shop that might be worth stopping by so you can discuss the subject with qualified professionals: http://www.rrtautomotive.com/perform...e-fabrication/

[K8_M235i]

There are no "off the shelf" roll bars for our cars that actually improve safety in the event of a rollover.

Studio rsr bars aren't tight to the headliner. I'm sure if you're not tall at all you could get below it, but being 6'3" my head would be above the bar.

I spoke to the cage builder that built the cage in my e36 race car. He said it would be difficult to build a roll bar for someone my height and maintain the ability to have a passenger.

[OldCrow7xx]

Originally Posted by dradernh

They're generally not put into street cars. They make getting in and out a bit of a chore, and there's always the risk of hitting some part of your body on the cage (esp. your head! ). I wouldn't even want to contact roll bar padding in a wreck.

They do improve safety, and they'll improve performance by making the car's chassis stiffer. They also add quite a bit of weight.

Here's a nearby shop that might be worth stopping by so you can discuss the subject with qualified professionals: http://www.rrtautomotive.com/performance-services/rrt-racing/cage-fabrication/

Im wondering if at this point my car is crossing over from street car / daily driver into race car / toy car?

I feel like improving it any further it seems senseless because its just too much power for the busy city streets. Is it time to make it full time race car and get something else for the daily?

I paid 26k all in for the M235 and have put about 3k of upgrades into it. Would it be more or less expensive to build a track car from the start vs. converting this daily driver?

Just trying to figure what the next move is.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

I paid 26k all in for the M235 and have put about 3k of upgrades into it. Would it be more or less expensive to build a track car from the start vs. converting this daily driver?

Oh, that's an easier question! Start over from a more track-friendly platform. Something that doesn't weigh as much as a land whale, has room for tires, and has proper racing parts developed for it. E36/E46 are good for that these days.

To give you an idea of costs, turning an F22 in a moderately capable track car can easily cost more than the car new in upgrades (ask me how I know). In comparison, the NASA ST4 national champion car (happens to be an E36; which usually blows past me on the local tracks) recently sold for way less than what you paid for the M235.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

Is it time to make it full time race car

Just trying to figure what the next move is.

^ This.

The 2 series is a poor choice for a serious track/race car. It's simply much too heavy, and nothing short of cubic dollars can fix that. Maybe look for an M235i or M240i Racing if the 2 series is what you feel you have to have.

[Maynard]

This is one of those areas where the 'conventional wisdom' is way behind the actual science. The real answer to this is that it is only safer to have a rollbar if you are also using 5+ point belts AND A HELMET. Rollbars without a helmet are much more dangerous in most every type of crash, especially those where the rollbar would help (rollovers, side impacts). No amount of conventional rollbar padding can mitigate the impact risk of the bar, and in a crash you will be thrown into it, either sideways or backwards. Picture somebody taking an aluminum bat to the side or back of your head. This is usually omitted or ignored in conventional discussions that I have seen, where the helmet is either assumed (i.e. all HPDE's) or the authors aren't well-versed (lots of subconscious denial around safety topics too). Conversely, there is some added risk to race belts without a bar, mainly in rollovers where you are held upright and then the roof collapses onto you (in a 3-point you roll forwards into the airbag, so there is room for roof compression w/o injury). This is not true for the Schroth quickbelts, as they have a feature to work like a 3 point in a crash. I worked almost 20 yrs in PM&R (TBI, polytrauma), and one of my criteria when shopping for this car was Gold Star crash safety - those BRZ's sure are light and nimble, but they can't take a punch (and in the safety arena, the only question they always answer with 'Miata' is "what not to be in if you crash"). Save your money and buy solid subframe bushings if you want to tighten up chassis flex (OK, probably won't save anything with that route, but you'll actually have noticeable improvement).

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Maynard

This is one of those areas where the 'conventional wisdom' is way behind the actual science. The real answer to this is that it is only safer to have a rollbar if you are also using 5+ point belts AND A HELMET. Rollbars without a helmet are much more dangerous in most every type of crash, especially those where the rollbar would help (rollovers, side impacts).

Also, not just any helmet is suitable. Most people at track days use a motorcycle helmet which is not designed for the edge contact protection needed. A proper motorsports Snell SA (or Euro equivalent) rated helmet is needed where there is any risk of head impact with a roll cage in an accident.

[Maynard]

Don't think motorcycle helmets are fire-resistant either. And in an airbag car, a full face helmet is a good idea for the chin bar, even if you leave the visor up. Getting hit in the face w/ an airbag is better than with a steering wheel, but it isn't pleasant.

[pikcachu]

If you have to ask... then you probably don't need one