[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by ryem3

I've noticed this now and didn't see this particular comment. According to their site, the underseat woofer is 2 ohms. However, it seems that most, if not all, replacement units are about 4 ohms. The Focals are 4 ohms. It seems that these are recommended for almost every BMW application. Would it be harmful to run them? I understand running a 2 ohm speaker would increase the load on the amplifier. Would a more efficient speaker be harmful?

An ohm isn't a measure of efficiency; it's a measure of resistance.

That said, the reason most aftermarket replacements are 4 ohms is because there's a reasonable expectation that you'll be running the underseat drivers through an aftermarket amp, almost all of which operate best at 4 ohms.

You'll note on the Bavsound site that its Ghost underseat drivers are available in either 2 ohms or 4 ohms. This is because Bavsound's business model expects a certain amount of buyers to never upgrade the amp. BMW uses 2 ohm underseat drivers to maximize SPL with a minimum of power. The reason the Focals are dangerous to run with the HK OEM amp is that you'd be underpowering them, which can cause damage to both the driver and the amp if you turn the bass up too much to compensate.

[ryem3]

Thanks for the quick feedback!
If I understand correctly, damage would occur if the stock amp is driven to clipping, which could hurt the speaker. Wouldn't the most likely scenario be simply somewhat less spl, basically limited by the other speakers? I think that is the general result mentioned here as a result of all the speaker swaps - all of the replacements are less efficient, hence slightly reduced volume. (Although I'm mixing efficiency with resistance. ) Thanks for the help! I

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by ryem3

Thanks for the quick feedback!
If I understand correctly, damage would occur if the stock amp is driven to clipping, which could hurt the speaker. Wouldn't the most likely scenario be simply somewhat less spl, basically limited by the other speakers? I think that is the general result mentioned here as a result of all the speaker swaps - all of the replacements are less efficient, hence slightly reduced volume. (Although I'm mixing efficiency with resistance. ) Thanks for the help! I

The speakers won't limit SPL; the amp will. Why? Because the OEM amp is designed to drive the OEM speakers, which are all relatively high in efficiency (low 90s, IIRC) and are all 4 ohms. Drive lower-efficiency drivers with it, and the danger of clipping the amp becomes very real because you're underpowering/overdriving the speakers to achieve the same SPL.

This effect is far more pronounced regarding the underseat drivers. Remember that bass requires more power -- up to five times as much power -- to produce the same SPL as higher frequencies. A 2-ohm bass driver partially mitigates this by requiring less power to drive because its resistance is lower. However, the OEM amp is designed to drive 2 ohms on the underseat channels. Stick a 4-ohm driver in its place, and the resistance rises so the amp has to work that much harder to supply the current needed to drive the 4-ohm driver. Your amp ends up producing roughly 40 percent less power to those channels because of the increased resistance. The result? Getting any sort of bass means overdriving the amp, and poof! -- your entire system is toast.

[msa6]

I've done steps 1, 2, 4, and 5 as outlined in the initial post...and audio is vastly improved. Appreciate the help along the way.

My only remaining issue is volume level...my aging ears would love some more volume on Spotify. I have been relying on BT so far (using Spotify through iDrive, which is pretty weak, or the direct BT connection to the iPhone 7). I guess I should try the USB connection, and perhaps look at one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Dr...A3PO6K6MJQ13RE

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by msa6

I've done steps 1, 2, 4, and 5 as outlined in the initial post...and audio is vastly improved. Appreciate the help along the way.

My only remaining issue is volume level...my aging ears would love some more volume on Spotify. I have been relying on BT so far (using Spotify through iDrive, which is pretty weak, or the direct BT connection to the iPhone 7). I guess I should try the USB connection, and perhaps look at one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Dr...A3PO6K6MJQ13RE

Yes, if you are only concerned with volume a headphone amp would help. If you want better quality sound, not just louder, there are other steps that need to be taken. For the headphone amp something like this might be cleaner / easier. Keep in mind you will have to control everything though phone once you go this route.

https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Apple-Li...ywords=fiio+i1

[msa6]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Yes, if you are only concerned with volume a headphone amp would help. If you want better quality sound, not just louder, there are other steps that need to be taken.

What are next steps? Cost?

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by msa6

What are next steps? Cost?

Well that's a whole different can of worms. Spotify is by nature compressed and streamed so not good source content. That's problem #1. Problem #2 is that the digital to analog conversion in the car is not great. You can solve both with a Digital Media Player (DMP) which also includes an amp to get you your desired volume increase. But you have to supply your own higher quality lossless files (FLAC or other) that you can buy, rip from CDs, etc. You then get something like a FiiO player that has lossless content, does the digital to analog conversion, and amplifies it. So all the "thinking" is done outside of the car then you just use the aux in. But you end up with another device to deal with.

If you stick with Spotify or Pandora etc. then the headphone amp will help you as much as you can be helped.

Finally you can get a headphone amp like the FiiO one I linked and store lossless files on your iPhone but then you cannot charge it in the car.

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

... You can solve both with a Digital Media Player (DMP) which also includes an amp to get you your desired volume increase. But you have to supply your own higher quality lossless files (FLAC or other) that you can buy, rip from CDs, etc. You then get something like a FiiO player that has lossless content, does the digital to analog conversion, and amplifies it. So all the "thinking" is done outside of the car then you just use the aux in. But you end up with another device to deal with. ...

I concur with BEM-S4.

I'd also add that I like to listen to music at a high volume level and I find that with the replacement speakers suggested in this thread I can crank up the volume up pretty high, listening to my lossless/FLAC files with no noticeable distortion. This is due in part to the fact that speakers suggested are well matched to the amp and can handle the load at a high volume level without strain.

BEM-S4 is right, though: you have to put your files on some device. I myself use just a USB, plugged into the Audio-in port. Adding files to a USB involves a bit of work but once you get the routine down it goes pretty quickly. And if you have a large source library, you can customize your disk to contain your favorite files only. This certainly puts a smile on my face. This solution also costs very little since large capacity USBs are cheap and you're working from CDs you already own.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by selmeralto

I concur with BEM-S4.

I'd also add that I like to listen to music at a high volume level and I find that with the replacement speakers suggested in this thread I can crank up the volume up pretty high, listening to my lossless/FLAC files with no noticeable distortion. This is due in part to the fact that speakers suggested are well matched to the amp and can handle the load at a high volume level without strain.

BEM-S4 is right, though: you have to put your files on a device. I myself use just a USB, plugged into the Audio-in port. Adding files to a USB involves a bit of work but once you get the routine down it goes pretty quickly. And if you have a large source library, you can customize your disk to contain your favorite files only. This certainly puts a smile on my face. This solution also costs very little since large capacity USBs are cheap and you're working from CDs you already own.

To vastly oversimplify and cut out all the technical jargon:

Streaming Spotify or Pandora via BT bad

Streaming via USB or Aux in better

Lossless files via USB very good

Lossless files via DMP best

The USB as you described has major advantages though. Can control with car controls, set up playlists and album art etc. I have that setup in Wagon for dad since it's easy and very good. DMP is better but more complicated and cumbersome to use.

[ryem3]

Thought I'd add some comments from my installation experiments. All has not quite gone perfectly.
Installing Focal pc100s in the rear shelf went pretty well. However, these are 4 tab speakers with substantial metal baskets, it took a jig saw to cut off the two extra tabs. Also, it seems to me like the feed to the rear channels is not the same as the front channels. I'm sure I'm wrong about that, but the sound just isn't that good. I've experienced this before in other cars too. Or it might be the speakers before they are broken in. Time will tell.

Focal direct replacement subs are now under the seats and they work well. The instructions are not that clear and different references confused me. With an HK stereo, you need to use spacer rings provided in the kit or they don't sit square in the slots. I initially installed them without the spacers and they were rattling, which I thought was some other issue. No issues, they are in and work perfectly.

The Focal IF BMW-S component set for the fronts don't work with the F87. Don't think they'll work with a regular 2 series either. At first I thought hole placement wouldn't work because the rear shelf speakers have a smaller hole circle. Nope. The hole circle is larger than the ones on the rear shelf! How stupid is this? So, the hole locations are perfect, the Focals have speakers terminals in the usual place, at the back of the speakers. WELL, BMW has designed these speakers to be connected from the FRONT, as many of you probably already know. I was contemplating creating access for the cable to the rear, but I connected the Focal BMW compatible harness, and the speaker didn't work. I don't think it is wired correctly for this configuration. Very disappointing. If anyone has a 3 series and would like the set, let me know! Also, the hole in the door is too large for a typical 4" driver like a Focal pc100! Really bizarre! Not sure how others have installed typical 4" drivers in this location as they wouldn't seal properly to the door.

I've decided to go with the proven Etons for the fronts, as I can see they have the special connector locations on the front. I would probably prefer something a bit brighter judging from the comments, but I'll give them a try. At the moment, the system is very unbalanced with the much more efficient fronts compared to all the other drivers. Leaves me no choice but to swap the fronts for something and I don't want to mess with other speakers that might not be compatible.

[White Lightnin]

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1415374

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by ryem3

Leaves me no choice but to swap the fronts for something and I don't want to mess with other speakers that might not be compatible.

Since you're having trouble I would recommend checking out Bavsound before you continue on your current trajectory. Not sure if you can return what you've got or post it for sale in the classifieds. In any event you'll spend a bit more going the Bavsound route but it all fits and is plug and play, it's pretty much impossible to screw up.

[JerryW235]

+1 on the Bavsounds. Recently upgraded our Base audio M235i to their upgrade speakers for the H-K audio, and added the sail panel tweeters and a JL Audio amp, and couldn't be happier. The Bavsounds really are plug and play, not that other speakers may not be as well, but the Bavsounds fit perfectly, and all the original wiring is retained in case you want to remove it all later on.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by JerryW235

+1 on the Bavsounds. Recently upgraded our Base audio M235i to their upgrade speakers for the H-K audio, and added the sail panel tweeters and a JL Audio amp, and couldn't be happier. The Bavsounds really are plug and play, not that other speakers may not be as well, but the Bavsounds fit perfectly, and all the original wiring is retained in case you want to remove it all later on.

Another upside that has been mentioned before is they're actually sold in the US so no problem if you want to return, need a warranty repair, or just need help at some point.

[selmeralto]

There is a possibility that the Technic ASD bypass harness interferes with the SOS button functionality.

I'm working with the dealer to see if we can find out definitively whether there's a causal link here.

I've also started a thread to see if anyone has tried to use the SOS button after the ASD bypass install. Getting empirical data on this may be tough, though, since the set of people who have both done the bypass and have used the button may be small. This is also something that must be tested with care since if you press the button and no response is received, BMW may send out the police to deal with the emergency, or so I was told by the dealer.

Perhaps someone familiar with the respective circuitries or the functionality of the ASD can shed light on this possible causal link.

There's an important practical issue here. If you've installed the bypass and you or someone driving your car has a real emergency, thinking the button can be relied upon, you or he or she may be in trouble. This (the SOS fail) happened to a member of my family, on a highway, on the way to catch a plane. The car was disabled by a flat tire, the button malfunctioned, and the plane was missed. You can imagine worse outcomes.

If I get authoritative information on whether the SOS fail is related to the harness, I'll update post #1.

[ryem3]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Since you're having trouble I would recommend checking out Bavsound before you continue on your current trajectory. Not sure if you can return what you've got or post it for sale in the classifieds. In any event you'll spend a bit more going the Bavsound route but it all fits and is plug and play, it's pretty much impossible to screw up.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm starting to feel like a bit of an imbecile here, but such is the life of experimenting! I'll need to amend my prior post again.

I got the Eton B100's from Germany. Yes, they are certainly plug and play. I also would like to sell them, although I can likely return them to Extreme Audio, so reasonable offers considered.

When I pulled off the doors again, I had both sets of speakers to look at. I noticed from other posts, that there is actually easy access to the back of the speakers in the doors. There are plenty of holes in the door panels to route speaker wires. Also, the foam covering can easily be pulled off, accessing the holes and serving as a wrap for the speaker harness. Not sure what happened when I tried the Focals the first time; the second time the harness worked fine. The speakers have holes and a mount perfect for the 2 series. They fit right in and you route the speaker wires through a hole in the door. The tweeters are a perfect drop into the door sails.

I'll post pics at some point into this thread to show some of the install. Now I have Focal PC100s in the rear, Focal BMW subs and the Focal BMW components in the doors. The system is very balanced, nice midrange punch, good solid deep bass and sweet highs without being too bright. I still have the treble turned up most of the way and the bass up slightly. I expect to adjust these as the speakers break in. I'm actually not offering any real assessment yet, as these speakers typically change a fair amount as they break in and break in time for a car typically takes a while if it isn't a daily driver. Only thing remaining is a PC100 for the center channel. I got an extra set of these for that purpose, so happy to sell a single to anyone else on the board. I'll weigh these to compare with the stock speakers - they are solid! The PC100 is sold by Crutchfield for about $270 a pair! (I think the Focal component fronts are sold for about $450)

[norvegicus]

I am selling my ASD bypass harness if anyone is interested. $45 shipped to the US.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1416279

EDIT: sold

[selmeralto]

I'm happy to say that the SOS problem was a false alarm, as it were. The fault was not in the harness or the disconnected front speaker but rather in the telematics control unit. The TCU was replaced and all is fine. Continue to use your harness and enjoy the silence!

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by selmeralto

I'm happy to say that the SOS problem was a false alarm, as it were. The fault was not in the harness or the disconnected front speaker but rather in the telematics control unit. The TCU was replaced and all is fine. Continue to use your harness and enjoy the silence!

Awesome. Thanks for trouble shooting that!

[White Lightnin]

Originally Posted by White Lightnin

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1415374

Price lowered to $175 shipped.

[selmeralto]

If you have followed the recommendations in post #1 of this thread, including the dynamat installation, you may have noticed that with the enhanced and tighter bass, you may occasionally hear a rattle from the rear of the car. The culprit is/are the child lock latches. The easy remedy: pack the latches with foam packing peanuts. An easy and cheap solution that can be removed in an instant. Thanks Clemsonkev, who suggested this fix in another thread on the forum.

[Chipstix]

Excellent thread.

I had promised myself that I would not modify in any way my brand new 2016 M140i, and 1 year in it was all going so well....!

Anyway, this thread resonated with me (OK bad word to use), and I started by disconnecting the centre channel. 15mins, zero cost, instant improvement.

I already have the weather strips.

I am now planning the Eton B100W front speaker upgrade. I found a video of how to get the door card off.

Looks OK. I'm not a huge fan of working with trim and interiors (had had the door cards off on Audi A3, Honda Prelude, Mondeo mk3 ST220) and its not a process I enjoy but I've decided to man up and do it.



I checked and I also want the ETON B100W speakers for my F2.? Its looks all good from this list http://www.eton-gmbh.com/fileadmin/u...st_bmw_web.pdf

I will use "Silent Coat" in the UK as it seems very similar to Dynamat Extreme and about 1/2 the price. They do an 8 sheet door kit.

3 questions if I may:

1) Does anyone have photos of where they recommend installing the Dynamat specifically in this door (F20/21/22)? I have a smaller roller, a heat gun and trim tools.
2) Should the refitted ETON speaker mount through the sound deadening material? i.e. should there be sound deadening between the speaker and the door mounting positions?
3) I read somewhere that disconnecting centre channel deletes the ASD? i presume that is not the case? I actually want to keep my ASD (sorry!) as 'enhanced' or not, it sounds great to me (and I like the more aggressive 'engineered' sound of my 3.0L twin scroll straight six in sports mode. The hiss I only hear when stationary with music not playing. I am not going to modify exhaust or intake. In my limited driving so far, it sounds to me like engine sound augmentation is still active. Unless its a placebo effect, the hiss or noise seems less obvious or noticeable now that the centre channel is disconnected.


Thanks,

Chipstix

Nr Brighton, UK