[Edslittleworld]

I would like to have the dealership install the BMW certified accessory LSD into my 2017 M240i. What's stopping me is not the expense as much as trusting the dealership to perform differential work to include setting the proper gear backlash and such. I always felt that work was better suited to a specialty transmission shop. Anybody out there had that work performed and did it work out well?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Edslittleworld

...trusting the dealership to perform differential work to include setting the proper gear backlash and such.

Don't they simply remove the open diff and replace it with this LSD unit: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=03_1127?

[msej449]

My local dealer did my M Performance LSD retro-fit and I was very happy with the work. Like @dradernh I wasn't aware there were any adjustments to be made fitting a MP LSD: I read the BMW Service Notes and saw no mention of this.

In fact, mine was the converse view: that the premium I was paying was in part to get a professional installation, with liability, that didn't break my general warranty. Last thing I wanted was 3rd-party vs BMW finger-pointing if anything went wrong subsequently.

The dealer loaded the original standard differential into the trunk, plugged and wrapped-up, and suggested that there was a reasonable market on eBay for these units, for accident repairs, if I wanted to claw back some of the cost.

[RvR]

It took them the better part of a workday, but it turned out great. I don't believe the dealer had done one, or very many LSD installs, before. They had their best tech "Luke" do it. I have an outstanding BMW local dealer.

I love the M Performance LSD, it transformed the car, just as other posters have noted. I have had zero issues with the LSD, I just enjoy it every time I drive the car.

My only complaints are the usual ones, I should have had it installed earlier/right away, it should be a factory installed option, BMW charges 3X of what Porsche does for an installed LSD, etc.

An E46 330Ci ZHP (what I was aiming for with my F22 build) didn't have an LSD option, I don't believe, so I shouldn't complain too much. At least the F22 has a OE LSD available through BMW with full warranty, etc.

[RvR]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Don't they simply remove the open diff and replace it with this LSD unit: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=03_1127?

They just swap the entire "pumpkin" in a plug-and-play way. Bolt the new one up, and make sure the factory oil flll is at the correct level. No gear lash adjustments to make for the dealer, Drexler (the LSD OEM) did all that at the factory.

I didn't watch them do mine, but I did see the new pumpkin in a plastic bag, sitting inside its wooden shipping crate.

[chattanooga240]

The better question is, why wouldn't you?

[Feddersen]

It is a simple pumpkin replacement so all can do it.

However - I don't know about the B58 drivetrain but for the N55 drivetrain some coding is involved as well. That's enough reason to take it to the BMW dealership.

[Sportstick]

Dealers are independent businesses hiring the local talent they can find, albeit with appropriate BMW training. There is no proper generalization to answer the OP's question. It will vary by store and by technician, both for the dealer as well as for shops advertising themselves as transmission specialists.

[Phillymb75]

I pick up my new M240i at performance delivery this Friday, the LSD is going in at the dealership next week. I used the bmw code "bmw20" to get 20% off the lsd, they recommended about $500 for install and the dealer is using that quote.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

The better question is, why wouldn't you?

Cost and/or convenience are usually the reasons that owners use independents to work on their cars.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Cost and/or convenience are usually the reasons that owners use independents to work on their cars.

Also if you're still under warranty, often worth sacrificing a small amount of savings to avoid headache in the event of problem.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Also if you're still under warranty, often worth sacrificing a small amount of savings to avoid headache in the event of problem.

I guess I don't think much about the warranty. That's going to expire while I still have relatively few miles on the car, and except for fluids everything I've had done is aftermarket. I would likely have had the dealer install my LSD if it had been a BMW LSD, and for the reason you suggest. Since it wasn't a BMW LSD, though, I never considered it.

I haven't seen any reason to take aftermarket parts to a dealer. I'd much rather have the work done by outfits that do those sorts of installs all the time, and who I can watch do the work and discuss it with them while they're doing it.

For me, when I'm having work done it's less about cost than it is convenience. If I'm at the dealer for an oil change and I want the transmission fluid and coolant changed, too, I'll have them do it instead of driving over to the independent. Still, the independent has done more oil changes than the dealer.

In terms of where the labor expense has gone and will go while this car's under warranty, I expect it to end up around 90%+ indy.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I guess I don't think much about the warranty. That's going to expire while I still have relatively few miles on the car, and except for fluids everything I've had done is aftermarket. I would likely have had the dealer install my LSD if it had been a BMW LSD, and for the reason you suggest. Since it wasn't a BMW LSD, though, I never considered it.

I haven't seen any reason to take aftermarket parts to a dealer. I'd much rather have the work done by outfits that do those sorts of installs all the time, and who I can watch do the work and discuss it with them while they're doing it.

For me, when I'm having work done it's less about cost than it is convenience. If I'm at the dealer for an oil change and I want the transmission fluid and coolant changed, too, I'll have them do it instead of driving over to the independent. Still, the independent has done more oil changes than the dealer.

In terms of where the labor expense has gone and will go while this car's under warranty, I expect it to end up around 90%+ indy.

Yeah - I'm lucky my dealer is also an authorized performance shop for Dinan and many other aftermarket upgrades. Single throat to choke, all in one place. Some dealers won't install anything that's not OEM, that's a completely different discussion.

[4Hockey4]

I've chatted with BMW service manager and the actual tech who would do my SSK etc. In fact they are as open to watching/seeing/discussing as the indy shops. (walked me back and showed me on lift room for kit etc)

I have found a great local indie BMW specific shop, but like the BMW tech said on the chargepipe..."oh I've changed 100's of those in BMW's" Same with bushings, warranty downpipes and even the shifter.

Go with who you are comfortable with and take $$ in consideration. I'd have BMW do MP LSD.

(note: I've found BMW dealer hourly higher, but estimates for work time less, and evened out..maybe Indie shops pad more)

Maybe I got lucky with both dealerships here in Richmond.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

(note: I've found BMW dealer hourly higher, but estimates for work time less, and evened out..maybe Indie shops pad more)

They're both using the same flat rate book, and you should generally expect to be charged for the same amount of labor time, regardless of how long the job actually takes either type of shop to do.

If you look, you may notice that you're paying for more labor time than was actually spent by the shop on your vehicle. For example, you stop in at 9 AM for three things to be done while you wait, you get the car back at noon, and you're charged for 4.5 hours of labor. That's book rate labor in action.

In rural areas you can still find shops doing it the old way, where they charge you only for the time they actually spend on the repair or installation. However, there aren't many of those shops left. My last indy charged me actual labor and marked the parts up only 10% – I was certain I'd died and gone to heaven when I discovered him.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by dradernh

They're both using the same flat rate book, and you should generally expect to be charged for the same amount of labor time, regardless of how long the job actually takes either type of shop to do.

If you look, you may notice that you're paying for more labor time than was actually spent by the shop on your vehicle. For example, you stop in at 9 AM for three things to be done while you wait, you get the car back at noon, and you're charged for 4.5 hours of labor.

In rural areas you can still find shops doing it the old way, where they charge you only for the time they actually spend on the repair or installation. However, there aren't many of those shops left. My last indy charged me actual labor and marked the parts up only 10% – I was certain I'd died and gone to heaven when I discovered him.

That's typically how good mechanics make money these days, they charge the job rate then if they're done sooner they can use that time to work on something else. Conversely if they take forever the customer isn't overpaying for a job because mechanic was slow or inefficient.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Also if you're still under warranty, often worth sacrificing a small amount of savings to avoid headache in the event of problem.

That was my point as well.

The price is not going to be substantially different for this type of install. I'd rather BMW mess it up and have the hassle of replacing things than an independent.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

That's typically how good mechanics make money these days, they charge the job rate then if they're done sooner they can use that time to work on something else. Conversely if they take forever the customer isn't overpaying for a job because mechanic was slow or inefficient.

That's the standard argument for why book rate labor is fair.

Brake jobs can be an excellent example:

Owner A rolls in needing rotors and pads. His car is garaged and has never seen snow and rarely sees rain. The parts come off the car very easily and the new ones go on just as easily. From beginning to end, it took the mechanic 1.25 hours to do the job, and book rate labor is, let's say, 2.0 hours for the job.

Owner B comes in with brake parts practically welded together. His car sits outside year-round, and it takes the mechanic quite a bit more time getting everything apart. He spends additional time on cleanup and prep before he can put the new parts on. Total elapsed time...let's say 2.75 hours.

Both owners pay the same amount for labor. This is the typical dealer and independent model for how to charge for labor. Because I'm an example of Owner A, it's also why I'd prefer paying for the actual time the shop spends on my car.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

That was my point as well.

The price is not going to be substantially different for this type of install. I'd rather BMW mess it up and have the hassle of replacing things than an independent.

Here's where the price may be different (I don't use dealers enough to know). I had rear subframe bushings installed at the same time as I had a Wavetrac LSD installed. Combined labor was $600 at $100/hour.

Would a dealership have charged me book rate labor for each job, or would it have combined them as my independent did? If the latter, what's the process – ad hoc, something defined in the flat rate book, or something else; and what would that combined number of hours been? I don't know the answers.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Here's where the price may be different (I don't use dealers enough to know). I had rear subframe bushings installed at the same time as I had a Wavetrac LSD installed. Combined labor was $600 at $100/hour.

Would a dealership have charged me book rate labor for each job, or would it have combined them as my independent did? If the latter, what's the process – ad hoc, something defined in the flat rate book, or something else; and what would that combined number of hours been? I don't know the answers.

Hourly rates are all over the place and vary completely by city/state.

Sure, independent shops tend to have slightly lower hourly rates and may even use a slightly different quoting software. (there are about 5 super popular ones out there)

At the end of the day that job is going to be quoted within 1-2 hours either way, and between 90-$120 per hour of labor, the cost savings will not be huge either way.

I am not advocating for trusting a dealer by any means (or any independent for that matter either), but it does simplify things if an issue were to pop up to be at BMW, especially for an install like this.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

Hourly rates are all over the place and vary completely by city/state.

Sure, independent shops tend to have slightly lower hourly rates and may even use a slightly different quoting software. (there are about 5 super popular ones out there)

At the end of the day that job is going to be quoted within 1-2 hours either way, and between 90-$120 per hour of labor, the cost savings will not be huge either way.

I am not advocating for trusting a dealer by any means (or any independent for that matter either), but it does simplify things if an issue were to pop up to be at BMW, especially for an install like this.

I have no argument with your final point, especially for a BMW part.

I'm not too concerned about the dollar amounts. I was trying to get at the issue of why an owner is paying what he's paying, wherever he's going. And that, to me, comes down to the flat rate book being used by the shop doing the work.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I was trying to get at the issue of why an owner is paying what he's paying, wherever he's going. And that, to me, comes down to the flat rate book being used by the shop doing the work.

It definitely does, and varies.