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      09-11-2018, 07:18 PM   #23
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Except wet braking - nothing against the P4S but my experience on track and real world - I'll stick with the Contis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post

The PS4 is just a better tire and the OP is asking for the best summer tire. TireRack's test data doesn't lie. It beats the Contis in everything.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=223
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      09-11-2018, 10:43 PM   #24
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Hopefully the PS4S is better than the PSS when very hot on the track. The PSS would become greasy after a few hard laps and then wear very quickly (a few hundred kilometres or one track day to completely wear out the tread). As they are both only Max performance tyres compared with Extreme performance tyres such as the RE-71R which wears much less on the track, then this may just be the compromise that has to be accepted for the great all round road performance.
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      09-12-2018, 01:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosseau View Post
Most of you are probably RWD MT, and especially with modified cars, that's pretty impressive. Twenty to thirty years ago, was never able to launch WOT without time-robbing wheelspin, even with lousy 265-310hp Mustangs/Camaros. I guess it must be the new rubber and my lack of finesse.

So I have two nice tire choices and will probably go on price in the "Spring." With xdrive, I assume I should not stagger the tires, right? Thanks!
Check the owners manual for your 240. My 2016 235 owners manual says the staggered is acceptable with xdrive. If I would have ordered the MMPS from the factory, they would have come staggered.
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      09-12-2018, 01:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
How much snow do you get? What’s the typical snowfall in a single storm. I ask as the F22 site pretty close to the ground, and the M sits even closer. The Michelin AS are great but not if the snow is too deep for the car to get through. That said, I bought dedicated snows (Blizzaks) and wheels from tire rack for my E46. Never got stuck; used to pass AWD cars and hat had summer tires.
Same here for my 2 rear drive S2000's. I loved to drive in snow. Also got them and the wheels from Tire Rack.
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      09-13-2018, 12:17 AM   #27
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The current 2-series owners manual is not exactly a fountain of information. They should really add a supplement for the M-oriented cars. Nothing on staggering tires I could find.
Ah, the S2000. That car has probably gone up in value!

Right now, the Continentals are $200 less than a set of P4S. We'll see in the Spring. I appreciate your patience with my questions, and just blow me off as needed, as I don't want to become an annoyance on this forum. That said, here are more questions:

1. No track days, but including real world wet/dry performance. Rate a 1-10 my current P7 A/S RFT versus Conti and/or P4S. I'm trying to ascertain whether the hassle of a Spring change of tires is worth it in terms of non-hard core but maybe 8/10ths.

2. Same question on handling, but now the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus versus the P7 A/S RFT?

3. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus versus Conti/P4S. Result could mean just sticking with the A/S all the time unless big diff in handling.

4. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus versus P7 A/S RFTs in snow. I am coming to accept despite xdrive, it's really all about the tires.

5. What is the benefit or any drawbacks of staggering my 225/40/18s and what size(s) do you recommend?

Thanks again for any answers. This forum is already increasing my enjoyment of my new car.
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      09-13-2018, 07:46 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosseau View Post
The current 2-series owners manual is not exactly a fountain of information.
This car's manual is the worst I've seen in many years. The Japanese manufacturers' manuals that I have are much more thorough and informative.
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      09-13-2018, 10:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosseau View Post
The current 2-series owners manual is not exactly a fountain of information. They should really add a supplement for the M-oriented cars. Nothing on staggering tires I could find.
Ah, the S2000. That car has probably gone up in value!

Right now, the Continentals are $200 less than a set of P4S. We'll see in the Spring. I appreciate your patience with my questions, and just blow me off as needed, as I don't want to become an annoyance on this forum. That said, here are more questions:

1. No track days, but including real world wet/dry performance. Rate a 1-10 my current P7 A/S RFT versus Conti and/or P4S. I'm trying to ascertain whether the hassle of a Spring change of tires is worth it in terms of non-hard core but maybe 8/10ths.

2. Same question on handling, but now the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus versus the P7 A/S RFT?

3. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus versus Conti/P4S. Result could mean just sticking with the A/S all the time unless big diff in handling.

4. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 Plus versus P7 A/S RFTs in snow. I am coming to accept despite xdrive, it's really all about the tires.

5. What is the benefit or any drawbacks of staggering my 225/40/18s and what size(s) do you recommend?

Thanks again for any answers. This forum is already increasing my enjoyment of my new car.
Most any high performance all season or summer tire will be miles better than those absolute total steaming pile of crap P7 A/S RFT you have on there.

If you have winter tires already, then DO NOT get all seasons. It's a total waste and makes no sense. Summers will offer far more performance both in the wet and dry when temps are above 50-60 degrees.

If you want the best, the PS4 is it. I would most certainly pay an extra $200 for the best summer street tire on the market. Yes, MPSS and PS4s are not dedicated track tires (and I firmly believe if you track, you should buy track wheels/tires. PERIOD), but the MPSS/PS4s are absolutely the best summer tire out there. I've had tons of summer tires over the years and nothing compares to the MPSS and the PS4 is only better than that tire.

As for staggering, your M235X came with 7.5" wide rims at all four corners. The RWD cars with the staggered setup come with 7.5" wide in the front and 8.0" wide in the back. You cannot fit anything larger than a 225 width tire on the 7.5" wide rim. 8.0" wide will allow you to fit 245s.

Staggering does not really improve handling performance and I'd argue it increases understeer. Seeing that you have a 150lb heavier M235X with much of that weight on the front half, staggering will only make handling worse. I'd suggest sticking with a square setup. Last year I bought Alutec Drive 18X8.0 rims for all four corners from my RWD M235. I'm currently running the OEM MPSS 225s in the front and 245s in the back. When I get the PS4s in the spring, I'll be running 245s at all four corners as the Alutecs have the perfect offset to run this setup with no modifications. The 245s are a whopping 1.5" wider than the 225s. The front end grip will improve nicely. Something to consider.



https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1370118
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      09-13-2018, 11:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
...If you have winter tires already, then DO NOT get all seasons. It's a total waste and makes no sense. Summers will offer far more performance both in the wet and dry when temps are above 50-60 degrees.
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1370118

When I had the summer tires I was picking up a lot of nail punctures and side-wall bubbles. With the Michelin A/S +3 I've have not picked up any nails, and don't think any tire bubbles - which could be, I guess, driver error, but I picked up bubbles on depressions and gaps between lanes, not from potholes or hitting curbs.

Could be coincidence or the sticky summer tires attracted nails.

I do want to go back to summer Michelins, the M235 on the PSS is noticeably a better car then on all-season.
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      09-13-2018, 12:24 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
When I had the summer tires I was picking up a lot of nail punctures and side-wall bubbles. With the Michelin A/S +3 I've have not picked up any nails, and don't think any tire bubbles - which could be, I guess, driver error, but I picked up bubbles on depressions and gaps between lanes, not from potholes or hitting curbs.

Could be coincidence or the sticky summer tires attracted nails.

I do want to go back to summer Michelins, the M235 on the PSS is noticeably a better car then on all-season.
I don't think that's the factor of the tires. Yes, the MPSS is sticky, but that makes it no different then any other tire if you hit a nail. Very small rocks can get embedded in the tread though, but that's pretty normal for most any summer tires.

I had 235/40R18 MPSS tires on my 2012 WRX for about 2.5 years and 25K miles and they didn't pick up any nails or had any other damage. I've got 2.5 years and almost 30K miles on my M235's MPSS tires and no nails/damage. Kansas City has some pretty rough potholes and pavement cuts, especially with all the road work going on in my area for the past 3 years.

My biggest gripe with the MPSS tire, any other summer tire for that matter, is that they get darty as they wear and the tread is finally giving up it's grip as the rubber has aged quite rapidly in the past few months. The MPSS is only good for about 2.5 years before the rubber is dried out and overly heat cycled.
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      09-13-2018, 04:22 PM   #32
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you can get xdrive with staggered setup. That's what I have. (7.5" in front, 8" rear)
I cannot agree more about more understeer with staggered setup in xdrive car.
It's almost like FWD car. (over 54% of weight in front.)

BMW should have put 245 square from factory (at least for xdrive model).
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      09-13-2018, 09:53 PM   #33
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Tire Rack is good, but you can't beat real-world experience even though every car/driver is different. However, I think I can make a decision based on this.

With winter and our low mileage per year (5k), I might be concerned about premature aging of rubber on a 3+ year old tire with good tread left, if that's a reality. They will also be stored in garage in temps as low as 25F worst-case.

XutvJet, I've got a white car and your looks better than my 2019 M240i that I just got ceramic coated. Had a young guy do it out of his garage for $120, so doubt he clayed it, etc. But was just looking for a sacrificial layer where bird**** could be hosed off.

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      09-15-2018, 12:36 PM   #34
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+1 for PS4S

Installed on my M235i RWD 2 months ago, best tires.
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      09-15-2018, 02:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosseau View Post
With winter and our low mileage per year (5k), I might be concerned about premature aging of rubber on a 3+ year old tire with good tread left, if that's a reality. They will also be stored in garage in temps as low as 25F worst-case.
That is a reality.

So that they're not exposed to extreme temperatures, I believe the way to manage multiple sets of mounted tires (e.g., a summer set and a winter set) is to store the set not being used in a temperature-controlled environment. I've always kept mine in the basement, double-wrapped in plastic tire bags, and then wrapped in Tire Totes for further separation from light and oxygen and for ease of handling. See: https://www.autoshopexpress.com/pltibag25.html and https://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=216.

My basements have generally been maintained at 55-65° F year-round. The humidity has been maintained with humidifiers in the winter and dehumidifers in the summer, but I haven't paid attention to the relative humidity readings. My guess is they've been somewhere in the 40-60% range(?).

I change out winter tires at tread depths of 5-6/32nds. Depending upon how many miles I've run up on them, the rubber may still be soft enough but the tread depth no longer has sufficient room after a moderate snowfall or buildup of slush. Without that, you don't have rubber on the road in the way you want unless you spin the tires to dig down to the surface. That will get you going, but you'll have the problem again at the next stop light.

If the tread depth on a winter set remains deep enough but the rubber no longer passes the fingernail test (i.e., the rubber is nowhere near as soft as it was when new), I change them out for a fresh set. If stored in the basement as described, this generally takes 4-5 years.

As always, this is my 2¢, and YMMV.
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      09-15-2018, 10:06 PM   #36
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Your $0.2 might have saved me a lot more. I don't have a basement right now. As long as I can keep the old Lexus running (ES330, 114k) that will be our winter car, although I know I need to run the BMW every two weeks, which should be doable.

So plan to burn through (or just remove) P7 A/S RTFs and get "best" A/S tire, which appears to be Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, but open to other options!

I would be driving on salted roads ideally not below 20F. Based on feedback:

1. Top notch A/S would provide a noticeable handling boost compared to P7.
2. No A/S will compare to a dedicated summer tire.

Going with the best A/S year-round is a compromise. Does it make sense for the money?
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      09-16-2018, 01:08 PM   #37
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Since you're settling on a high performance allseason non-runflat, here's an interesting comparison test:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=230

Just an idle thought at this stage, but I'm thinking of putting the PZero allseason non-runflat on the front for better steering feedback while keeping the Cinturato P7 runflat on the rear. (An additional benefit is that it should add enough traction to the front to put the balance of the car into oversteer, which I would like, but probably doesn't matter to you with AWD.)

The main reason for keeping the runflat on the rear is that all of my tire punctures in 55 years of driving have been on the rear. The best explanation I've heard for that is the front tire kicks up the nail and the rear hits it at an angle that drives it into the tire. If this combination works I will be comfortable without the compact spare taking up trunk space.

If it causes some handling issues I'll buy another pair of PZeros and get used to carrying the spare all the time.
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      09-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #38
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Maybe someone can give you feedback on that plan, or Tire Rack would. Unless the flat is local, the whole run-flat advantage is a bunch of BS.

We have already and plan to take the car on longer trips. So we get a flat outside of Boonville. 0% chance of a BMW dealer within 50 miles, so that gets us to a hotel ($100). Meanwhile, we lose another $100 on our destination hotel. So really, roadside assistance or a spare is only option. I also got the tire/wheel coverage, mostly for curbing a tire.

In 45 years, I have never even had to change a flat tire. Wife got two front flats at the same time once, but that was a fluke. But you can bet as soon as I go to a good A/S, my wife gets a flat and is stuck, right?
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      09-16-2018, 05:11 PM   #39
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I recently purchased a gently used (27K miles) 2015 228i for what I consider to be a below market price, and it came equipped with a new set of Continental ContiProContact 205/50 R17 tires. Am I going to be satisfied with them for 30K miles or should I already be budgeting to replace them? This car will be a daily driver in subtropical South Florida.
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      09-16-2018, 05:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosseau View Post
Unless the flat is local, the whole run-flat advantage is a bunch of BS.

We have already and plan to take the car on longer trips. So we get a flat outside of Boonville. 0% chance of a BMW dealer within 50 miles, So really, roadside assistance or a spare is only option.
50 miles is enough to get me to cell coverage when I'm driving for entertainment in the mountains.

My concern is leaving the car on a low traffic road, probably overnight while I try to hitch a ride to somewhere with cell coverage. For me the choices are runflats at least on the rear or putting up with a spare in the trunk.
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      09-16-2018, 05:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertw View Post
....or putting up with a spare in the trunk.
Exactly...bimmerzone.com
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      09-16-2018, 06:17 PM   #42
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That's a neat option buying what they should have given you in the first place, unless you're actually on a long trip and have suitcases.

What does roadside assistance do if you don't have a spare with no dealer nearby? I assume they transport you to a service station that puts on anything that will fit to get you going.

I realize RFTs are an industry issue, not just BMW, and I'm looking at a worst-case scenario that will hopefully never happen.

Last edited by Rosseau; 09-16-2018 at 06:18 PM.. Reason: spelling error
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      09-16-2018, 06:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosseau View Post
What does roadside assistance do if you don't have a spare with no dealer nearby? I assume they transport you to a service station that puts on anything that will fit to get you going.

I realize RFTs are an industry issue, not just BMW, and I'm looking at a worst-case scenario that will hopefully never happen.
My understanding (I've never tested it) is that roadside assistance will tow you as far as they can for free, then you pay for the rest of the miles to where you want to go.

Once you have non-standard tires a BMW shop won't be much help. I would have the car towed to the nearest real tire shop. If it will take several days to get the right replacement tire, I would have them install any cheap tire that will fit the rim and wheel well. With that on the front and three good tires I'd be able to get home from just about anywhere (only with RWD, of course).
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      09-16-2018, 07:05 PM   #44
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Makes sense. I bought the tire/wheel coverage and can only assume they'll give me a new P7 at a BMW dealer. Or maybe they'll cover any tire shop, although like you say unlikely they will stock a P7. Not much help in the scenario we're discussing unfortunately.
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