[Ron Jeffries]

The 2021 veloster n will have an 8 speed DCT. the vw golf r has a DSG. I can't get one on my 2-er and I am sad.

[Dylan86]

Those are the brand's higher tier models, which is why they offer DCT.

If you want DCT in an Audi, you need an "S" or "RS" car, mostly. Same goes for BMW, if you want DCT you need their top tier model line, which is the "M" cars.

We're lucky they sometimes slide a DCT into an MP middle model but since the ZF8 has come about, I'm not sure many would want any different? I like DCT, personally, but MT in this car is the only route for me.

[stein_325i]

You can, its called the M2... But I do agree with your point, BMW eliminates DCT's in favor of Autos is just another aspect that is a turn off (although there is still one superior trans choice #SaveTheManuals) even Albert Biernmann was unhappy with the choice of ZF in the new M5.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

If you want DCT in an Audi, you need an "S" or "RS" car, mostly. Same goes for BMW, if you want DCT you need their top tier model line, which is the "M" cars.

Surprisingly its starting to be the other way around. The normal A4/5/6/7 all have DSG's, but the S and RS versions of those cars all have (poorly tuned) ZF transmissions.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Surprisingly its starting to be the other way around. The normal A4/5/6/7 all have DSG's, but the S and RS versions of those cars all have (poorly tuned) ZF transmissions.

That’s interesting.

My understanding is that torque converters are good at handling just that: torque (and lots of it at that.) conversely, they’re generally not great at dealing with lots of revs. The automotive landscape has shifted and a lot of modern cars have tons of torque but not necessarily a ton of revs, which favors traditional automatics.

Also they’re really good these days.

[pikcachu]

Just get a Model 3 ... 1 gear

[K8_M235i]

Bmw went from a dct in f10 m5s back to zf8s in f90 m5. I just suits the use of the car better, f90s won't be tracked that much where the dct would be better, but they will be launched a bunch where the zf8 is much better.

Another thing is that bmw sells a lot of automatic f22s to very normal people that don't want to deal with dct services.

There's probably so many people that buy gtis and s3s to commute in that have never had a dsg service done, when in reality they should be done every 35k.

[USA-RET]

I love the ZF in my 2'er. I cannot imagine any automatic transmission performing better. Admittedly, I have not driven a car with a DCT for any length of time (only test drives), and did not notice anything appreciably better with the DCT. It's my understanding (from forums and articles) that a DCT isn't the best choice for around town commuting compared to ZF's and others due to it's jerkier/rougher performance in everyday use.

I traded my 2015 C7 in for the 2'er only because the A8 automatic transmission was so horrible. It was jerky and would surge when coming to a stop making me not want to drive the car. GM was fighting that problem across their product line w/ A8 autos. The ZF was stellar in comparison.

I was all in with the DCT when I first read about them and thought they would be a great transmission to have in my daily driver. But after experiencing the ZF, it smooth performance, hard shifts under power, engine braking when rolling to a stop light and their proven durability, I not sure I can do better?

[Ron Jeffries]

the ZF is good, and smoother than the DCT on my 135is. since i wanted xDrive to get down to an all-season car, it was an OK compromise. but the DCT is discernibly a gearbox, not an automatic, and i miss it. i also miss my exhaust pops and burbles. just a kid at heart.

[morphomeman]

The ZF8 is the most highly praised transmission of any type of the last decade.
It is also made by the Zeppelin company of Friedrichshaven.
Yet, that Zeppelin company and they still make airships.
Can you say that about any other tranny manufacturers?
This is the first automatic I have used as a personal car since the Taurus wagon that held five kids. Now that was an ironically dreadful transmission!

[Ron Jeffries]

Buick Dynaflow was nice ...

[JonOhh]

As good as BMWs calibration of the zf8 is, I think there's a lot of advantages to the torque converter auto. It's not slushy, it stays locked almost all the time (unless slipping a bit offers some advantage, such as being in second gear at very low speed and rolling onto the throttle...so actually an advantage since very little wear occurs) ,and the the shifts are clutch to clutch (one shift element releases, and another engages to complete a shift...sound familiar?) and timed near perfectly. Another advantage of planetary autos is the ability to go from any gear to any other gear with no hesitation, something which isn't always the case on a DCT where the physical engagement of gears must occur before the clutch can do any of that magic.

The only real shortcoming is the off throttle downshifts on the n series + hp45 setup. On the b series platform with the hp50 they've done a lot to improve the quality of the downshifts.

[Ron Jeffries]

Having driven nearly the same car both ways, my 135is with DCT and M240i xDrive with ZF8, I can say confidently that the engagement of the gears on the DCT feels much more direct, like a manual, than does the ZF8. The ZF8 is darn good, mind you, but it really doesn't feel as locked as the real gears do.

[ggggbmw]

I'm happier with the true auto ZF8.

I hated the DSG in the VW GTI I test drove. The shifts were harsh and clunky, and the low speed behavior was really glitchy. One of the reasons I didn't pursue a Golf R. Also have a Ford Focus in the family with a DCT. That particular model has needed a ton of service (although Ford did cover it), and it still feels harsh under many circumstances. Many VW DSG's have been maintenance nightmares also.

Under full throttle track conditions a DCT will give _marginally_ quicker/faster response than the ZF8. And you can still get one in the track toy M2.

But for 99.9% of driving the ZF8 is the better choice. And even on the track, with Sport mode paddle shift behavior, I find the ZF8 is incredibly quick and direct.

[TonM3]

Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries

The 2021 veloster n will have an 8 speed DCT. the vw golf r has a DSG. I can't get one on my 2-er and I am sad.

You can't go wrong with the ZF unit in BMWs. It is quick shifting, smooth and robust.
It won't impress the kids at cars and coffee but really no automatic should. If you are trying to impress, get a manual.

[Ron Jeffries]

I took a very long solo test drive in a Golf R with its DSG or whatever TLA it uses. I really rather liked it. If I had a stable instead of one slot in our garage, I could imagine having one, although I really find the M240ixDrive is pretty fine.

[khoa@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Ron Jeffries

Having driven nearly the same car both ways, my 135is with DCT and M240i xDrive with ZF8, I can say confidently that the engagement of the gears on the DCT feels much more direct, like a manual, than does the ZF8. The ZF8 is darn good, mind you, but it really doesn't feel as locked as the real gears do.

I see your point. I've driven both ZF8 and DCT and I gotta say DCT feels more raw and direct.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

The ZF8 is the most highly praised transmission of any type of the last decade.
It is also made by the Zeppelin company of Friedrichshaven.
Yet, that Zeppelin company and they still make airships.
Can you say that about any other tranny manufacturers?
This is the first automatic I have used as a personal car since the Taurus wagon that held five kids. Now that was an ironically dreadful transmission!

Too cool, thanks for the history trivia. And good to know that the greatness of the ZF was immortalized through the lyrics of that Greatest of All Car Songs:

Ooh, trouble-free transmission
Helps your oil's flow
Mama, let me pump your gas
Mama, let me do it all.....

[yadda yadda s/t about blown head gaskets, failed water pumps, and hundred-mile bearing service intervals, not relevant to the BMW experience]

Oh yes, fully automatic
Comes in any size
Makes me wonder what I did
Before we synchronized....