[Taskmaster]

The more I think about it, I'm not interested in that much more power with this car.

I mean, if it was there, I wouldn't say no - but the primary concern here for me is actually a power curve that's shifted more to the right (building progressively until redline) versus the massive impact of torque from low mid range that tappers off at 6500.

And before any more power can be added, I'm really focused on dialing the suspension on this car. It feels soft, and the wiggle that it gets when it comes on power, the lean in corners, the bouncy rear suspension.

I like the car, but these things...makes it feel a lot less sporty

[Texan2er]

I am starting to feel the same way. Only have about 2k miles in mine, so giving myself another 3k or so to get used to how everything handles before altering the suspension. The suspension is definitely closer to what I want as-is than my previous WRX was out-of-the-box, which is nice.

Considering I can already spin the tires into 2nd if I give too much throttle, I want to work towards getting more of that power down, especially in cornering. Still playing with the throttle out of corners to get a smooth exit.

I wish that there were more suspension options that would allow for maintaining the configurable suspension option for some of these rotten Houston roads that my wife rides along with me for...

Since I got my car used, I will probably still get a JB4 first, more so I can actively monitor things better.

[Texan2er]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

...the bouncy rear suspension.

Just reread this part and... wow, yeah, front seems decently planted and then the back is just twerkin out from under me.

[WolfGTI]

LSD in the rear is a great first step - really makes a difference.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Texan2er

Just reread this part and... wow, yeah, front seems decently planted and then the back is just twerkin out from under me.

I get on it and it just causes the traction control to kick on and the car to really twerk. It’s unnerving.

[TakoMako]

improvement with sway bar is huge. Installed Dinan ones, cost me about $2000

[Texan2er]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

LSD in the rear is a great first step - really makes a difference.

That will probably be the next expense (after I grab an extended warranty, because... BMW).

[Texan2er]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

I get on it and it just causes the traction control to kick on and the car to really twerk. It’s unnerving.

It has been a long time since I had a RWD car, so losing traction all the way through 1st is, as you aptly stated, unnerving at times. The nigh instant amount of torque you get at any time below 6k RPM in 1st - 5th still catches me by surprise coming from a car tuned to be extremely linear in power.

Originally Posted by TakoMako

improvement with sway bar is huge. Installed Dinan ones, cost me about $2000

I've been wondering if that would help significantly.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TakoMako

improvement with sway bar is huge. Installed Dinan ones, cost me about $2000

Is it really? But I heard they are a pain to install and it doesn't change the soft/under damped rear suspension

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

LSD in the rear is a great first step - really makes a difference.

Does it take care of the rear end shimmy and shake?

Originally Posted by Texan2er

It has been a long time since I had a RWD car, so losing traction all the way through 1st is, as you aptly stated, unnerving at times. The nigh instant amount of torque you get at any time below 6k RPM in 1st - 5th still catches me by surprise coming from a car tuned to be extremely linear in power.



I've been wondering if that would help significantly.

Same, glad it's not just me.

[ScottAndrew]

I have the “poormans” model which in England is an unnecessary luxury car but now that I’ve got that out of the way... the other day I went from 20 mph to the 50 mph limit of an average speed zone in what felt like less than three seconds. Track days here are populated almost exclusively by dicks, and good driving roads that aren’t clogged solid are 50+ miles from here. I am completely nonplussed at what I’m going to do with more power!

[RotorOver]

Wavetrac LSD, MPS4S 265 rears along with Dinan performance springs solved all the shenanigans in the rear for me, at least the way I use the car. Even with a shorter final drive (by 10%, 3.08 in the ZF auto) installed, I no longer spin the tires. It's a completely different (better) car now.

Oh, and I'm running a Dinan stage 1 tune with their CAI to boot.

[Texan2er]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Same, glad it's not just me.

Not to say I don't thoroughly enjoy the car!

[Texan2er]

Originally Posted by RotorOver

Wavetrac LSD, MPS4S 265 rears along with Dinan performance springs solved all the shenanigans in the rear for me, at least the way I use the car. Even with a shorter final drive (by 10%, 3.08 in the ZF auto) installed, I no longer spin the tires. It's a completely different (better) car now.

Oh, and I'm running a Dinan stage 1 tune with their CAI to boot.

Is the Wavetrac the same LSD that BMW uses, or do they still have a Quaife? Looks like that's a more affordable path than going through BMW, but then warranty...

I have also sadly made the switch to the ZF with this car. Missing the manual, but for the commute it is a better option currently. Your setup may be pretty close to the path I end up heading down.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by RotorOver

Wavetrac LSD, MPS4S 265 rears along with Dinan performance springs solved all the shenanigans in the rear for me, at least the way I use the car. Even with a shorter final drive (by 10%, 3.08 in the ZF auto) installed, I no longer spin the tires. It's a completely different (better) car now.

Oh, and I'm running a Dinan stage 1 tune with their CAI to boot.

Is it simply the softly sprung rear? Tires? Lack of LSD - maybe the subframe bushings?

BUt you're saying you don't have that squirrely behavior when you romp on it (even to over take)?

Awesome.

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

I have the “poormans” model which in England is an unnecessary luxury car but now that I’ve got that out of the way... the other day I went from 20 mph to the 50 mph limit of an average speed zone in what felt like less than three seconds. Track days here are populated almost exclusively by dicks, and good driving roads that aren’t clogged solid are 50+ miles from here. I am completely nonplussed at what I’m going to do with more power!

I have a long commute, but I'm just over speeding - too many tickets! I would do a track day (and hope to do one soon) but the car feels like a handful already!

Originally Posted by Texan2er

Is the Wavetrac the same LSD that BMW uses, or do they still have a Quaife? Looks like that's a more affordable path than going through BMW, but then warranty...

I have also sadly made the switch to the ZF with this car. Missing the manual, but for the commute it is a better option currently. Your setup may be pretty close to the path I end up heading down.

I have a manual, and it appears that the ZF doesn't give up much, if anything. I believe that the M LSD is a clutch type, but I hear it's not super aggressive.

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by Texan2er

Is the Wavetrac the same LSD that BMW uses, or do they still have a Quaife? Looks like that's a more affordable path than going through BMW, but then warranty...

I have also sadly made the switch to the ZF with this car. Missing the manual, but for the commute it is a better option currently. Your setup may be pretty close to the path I end up heading down.

I thought I read that Quaife made the M Performance diff, but I'm not certain. Both Quaife and Wavetrac are torque biasing, mechanical, helical gear LSDs. Wavetrac has a unique zero load capability that the Quaife doesn't have, but both have their fans. The ATB style is a good value for street performance in my mind- you don't need to spend more for a street car. As far as warranty, Wavetrac is lifetime on the LSD anyway and includes track use, so you can't lose.

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Is it simply the softly sprung rear? Tires? Lack of LSD - maybe the subframe bushings?

BUt you're saying you don't have that squirrely behavior when you romp on it (even to over take)?

Awesome.

I have a long commute, but I'm just over speeding - too many tickets! I would do a track day (and hope to do one soon) but the car feels like a handful already!

I have a manual, and it appears that the ZF doesn't give up much, if anything. I believe that the M LSD is a clutch type, but I hear it's not super aggressive.

You know, I think it's a combination of those things in the rear. I started with springs/bump stops then LSD, then wider tires/wheels and the car got progressively better!

Yes, M Performance LSD is a clutch unit, but I understand it's pretty good for the money ~$2k. I just liked the idea of a purely mechanical unit not tied to the nannies.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

The more I think about it, I'm not interested in that much more power with this car.

I mean, if it was there, I wouldn't say no - but the primary concern here for me is actually a power curve that's shifted more to the right (building progressively until redline) versus the massive impact of torque from low mid range that tappers off at 6500.

And before any more power can be added, I'm really focused on dialing the suspension on this car. It feels soft, and the wiggle that it gets when it comes on power, the lean in corners, the bouncy rear suspension.

I like the car, but these things...makes it feel a lot less sporty

Agreed to all of this. My only power adder is ~2psi (Sport setting) via the Dinantronics Sport. It's surprising how well the power delivery is with such a minor increase in boost. The Sport+ and Race settings often result in inconsistent power and/or lag. The Sport setting with 93 octane results in none of that.

I will say the suspension is actually pretty good on B road driving in Sport+ or DSC Off (i.e., stiff shock setting). Around town, it can feel a bit wonky and bouncy. You can tell the front end needs more tire.

Adding the MP LSD a few months back made huge difference in traction in all situations and makes the car feel much more stable and results in more forward thrust vs wheel spin and fun-killing nanny involvement (the LSD often works faster than the traction control nannies). This isn't to say that the car still doesn't lose traction under heavy throttle in 1st, 2nd, and occasionally 3rd, but more power makes it too the ground and the car/power is FAR easier to control. The LSD is the real deal and you really can feel it, more so than any other LSD I've owned or driven with. It's surprisingly aggressive at lock-up. The MP LSD is a must and should be the first thing on your list. The only downside to the LSD is that it makes you very aware of how soft the rear bushings are as the additional traction results in more apparent squirm in the body as the LSD does its thing.

I'm running 18X8 et43 Alutec Drive wheels with the OEM staggered MPSS tires. The Drive wheels allow me to run 245/35R18 with no clearance issues. Next spring the OEM MPSS tires will be replaced with a square 245/35 MPS4S setup. Running the 245/35 in the front vs the stock 225/40 will give me nearly 1.5" wider tread. That should help in grip and reduced roll.

Next spring I'll also be adding Dinan springs with the Dinan 1/4" rear lift spacers. But I'll only run the springs in the rear. Dinan rear springs are 30% stiffer than stock and drop the rear 0.75" with the spacer. The increased spring rate and reduced spring travel should help alleviate the rear axle pogoing and other better control. The front Dinan springs lower the front by 0.5" and only add 10% more rate which is nothing. I find the front axle fine and low enough in stock form. I'll see how the car behaves with the square tire setup, rear springs, and a more aggressive suspension alignment before considering to install the front springs.

[3rdcoast228i]

Refreshing topic

I have a 4 pot and I'm really happy with the msport suspension. (Non tract pack) But I really think the rear would be much more planted with an LSD.

[Texan2er]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

Refreshing topic

I have a 4 pot and I'm really happy with the msport suspension. (Non tract pack) But I really think the rear would be much more planted with an LSD.

When I first started looking at the M235i as a potential new toy, I had assumed they would automatically put the LSD in... Was shocked when I discovered it was still only an option... an expensive, seemingly seldom-selected option.

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

I have a manual, and it appears that the ZF doesn't give up much, if anything. I believe that the M LSD is a clutch type, but I hear it's not super aggressive.

I mainly miss the involvement of a manual. The ZF is the best auto I've driven so far though, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by RotorOver

I thought I read that Quaife made the M Performance diff, but I'm not certain. Both Quaife and Wavetrac are torque biasing, mechanical, helical gear LSDs. Wavetrac has a unique zero load capability that the Quaife doesn't have, but both have their fans. The ATB style is a good value for street performance in my mind- you don't need to spend more for a street car. As far as warranty, Wavetrac is lifetime on the LSD anyway and includes track use, so you can't lose.

Lot of good info! Interested if I can find someone local who has the M Performance diff to see how it feels compared to the mechanicals I've had before. Did you order yours with the M Perf diff and then swap, or straight to what you have now?

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The only downside to the LSD is that it makes you very aware of how soft the rear bushings are as the additional traction results in more apparent squirm in the body as the LSD does its thing.

Makes sense. I've seen several recommendations to do the bushings at the same time as the LSD, I assume to immediately rectify this.

[stevenvillatoro]

Originally Posted by Texan2er

... I had assumed they would automatically put the LSD in... Was shocked when I discovered it was still only an option... an expensive, seemingly seldom-selected option.

Here's some potentially good news, since we're approaching the end of the year. Last year, BMW put the LSD on sale for 50% off during its holiday promotions.

If BMW repeats that promotion, it'd be heck of a nice savings.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Agreed to all of this. My only power adder is ~2psi (Sport setting) via the Dinantronics Sport. It's surprising how well the power delivery is with such a minor increase in boost. The Sport+ and Race settings often result in inconsistent power and/or lag. The Sport setting with 93 octane results in none of that.

I will say the suspension is actually pretty good on B road driving in Sport+ or DSC Off (i.e., stiff shock setting). Around town, it can feel a bit wonky and bouncy. You can tell the front end needs more tire.

Adding the MP LSD a few months back made huge difference in traction in all situations and makes the car feel much more stable and results in more forward thrust vs wheel spin and fun-killing nanny involvement (the LSD often works faster than the traction control nannies). This isn't to say that the car still doesn't lose traction under heavy throttle in 1st, 2nd, and occasionally 3rd, but more power makes it too the ground and the car/power is FAR easier to control. The LSD is the real deal and you really can feel it, more so than any other LSD I've owned or driven with. It's surprisingly aggressive at lock-up. The MP LSD is a must and should be the first thing on your list. The only downside to the LSD is that it makes you very aware of how soft the rear bushings are as the additional traction results in more apparent squirm in the body as the LSD does its thing.

I'm running 18X8 et43 Alutec Drive wheels with the OEM staggered MPSS tires. The Drive wheels allow me to run 245/35R18 with no clearance issues. Next spring the OEM MPSS tires will be replaced with a square 245/35 MPS4S setup. Running the 245/35 in the front vs the stock 225/40 will give me nearly 1.5" wider tread. That should help in grip and reduced roll.

Next spring I'll also be adding Dinan springs with the Dinan 1/4" rear lift spacers. But I'll only run the springs in the rear. Dinan rear springs are 30% stiffer than stock and drop the rear 0.75" with the spacer. The increased spring rate and reduced spring travel should help alleviate the rear axle pogoing and other better control. The front Dinan springs lower the front by 0.5" and only add 10% more rate which is nothing. I find the front axle fine and low enough in stock form. I'll see how the car behaves with the square tire setup, rear springs, and a more aggressive suspension alignment before considering to install the front springs.

This is interesting. Do you have any information on what the spring rates are currently?

Typically BMW's run low spring rates in the front (150lbs/in -170lbs/in) so you're correct, a 10% increase would be minor. My guess is they did just enough to prevent bottoming out during normal driving due to the decreased ride height.

One of the first things I want to do is move to a square setup, close to my E92 which was 255/40/17 all the way around (great for tire rotation too) and provided plenty of grip. The odd offsets on this car are actually really annoying, and I hate the thought of having to run a spacer.

Did you change the rear subframe bushings? Are the M2 versions any better than the M235is?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

Here's some potentially good news, since we're approaching the end of the year. Last year, BMW put the LSD on sale for 50% off during its holiday promotions.

If BMW repeats that promotion, it'd be heck of a nice savings.

Do you know the part number off hand?