[Jamesjedi]

Are any of these lowering springs an actual performance improvement?

They will change suspension geometry, and the dampening is unchanged.

Are they aesthetic only?

[Ajowhan]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

Are any of these lowering springs an actual performance improvement?

They will change suspension geometry, and the dampening is unchanged.

Are they aesthetic only?

Lowering springs usually have higher spring rate, which equates to stiffer spring. stiffer spring also usually results in less body roll. I have not heard anyone that complains of no changes upon installing lowering springs.

The same can't be said of this trend back when I was younger in some country I won't mention of cutting the spring of the car to lower the car...........

[WolfGTI]

The fastest way to lower lap times is improving the driver. Unless you're maxxing out the stock suspension @ the track you don't need springs - unless it's for looks.

[Ajowhan]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

The fastest way to lower lap times is improving the driver. Unless you're maxxing out the stock suspension @ the track you don't need springs - unless it's for looks.

You are saying that given the same driver at the same day driving 2 car with the only variant being the different spring, he/she wouldn't clock have a higher chance of clocking better time with the stiffer spring?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Ajowhan

You are saying that given the same driver at the same day driving 2 car with the only variant being the different spring, he/she wouldn't clock have a higher chance of clocking better time with the stiffer spring?

I think WolfGTI is suggesting that if you wish to go faster around a race track (or autocross course), you'll achieve that goal more quickly by learning to be a better track driver. Further, after you've become the best track driver you're able to be, and then only when you're driving the stock car as fast as it can lap the track, does it make sense to begin changing parts.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet than no more than 0.005% of track drivers follow that route to fast lap times. But I'm not a betting man, so who knows.

[MassNerd]

Originally Posted by dradernh

then only when you're driving the stock car as fast as it can lap the track, does it make sense to begin changing parts.

I would dispute that comment because it makes sense to change parts that increase safety (better brakes / less fade) and reduce tire wear (camber plates, more neg camber) even if you aren't the best driver you can be. These things also help you go faster of course, but there are other benefits that need to be considered.

[Jamesjedi]

So, even though the dampening and geometry has not changed has the car become faster?

Geometry and dampening on a track car are very important.

[aerobod]

I would agree with dradernh, best to concentrate on driving the car well around a given track before deciding what changes to the car are needed. At our local track, the “Fit Challenge” is an unofficial game that some of the best drivers take to post the best time in a stock Honda Fit with good summer tyres such as RE71-Rs on it. The best time is similar to an average driver in a Corvette C5 (or M240i for that matter) after their first year of track experience.

[MassNerd]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

So, even though the dampening and geometry has not changed has the car become faster?

Geometry and dampening on a track car are very important.

The stiffness of the spring will change the geometry while turning (suspension under load/compression).

[XutvJet]

With most aftermarket springs which lower the car too much on the stock adaptive dampers, chances are the car will be slower. It will look better doing it though.

[Jamesjedi]

“With most aftermarket springs which lower the car too much on the stock adaptive dampers, chances are the car will be slower. It will look better doing it though”

I was thinking the same, but there may be an improvement? Possibly at the expense of the car becoming unsettled over uneven pavement?

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

“With most aftermarket springs which lower the car too much on the stock adaptive dampers, chances are the car will be slower. It will look better doing it though”

I was thinking the same, but there may be an improvement? Possibly at the expense of the car becoming unsettled over uneven pavement?

Typically it will be underdamped on stock shocks with stiffer and shorter springs due to less shock movement, so will tend to wallow through corners and over bumps, upsetting the handling compared with stock overall. Best to only change springs with matched dampers to improve performance.

[Jamesjedi]

That makes sense.

That = $'s cubed

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

I would dispute that comment because it makes sense to change parts that increase safety (better brakes / less fade) and reduce tire wear (camber plates, more neg camber) even if you aren't the best driver you can be. These things also help you go faster of course, but there are other benefits that need to be considered.

I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree with it.

To keep my point front and center, I wanted to stick with the generalization and not get into details like those you've listed.

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

That makes sense.

That = $'s cubed

Perhaps, but it's just the way it is.

Again, you can advance quite a bit and have a lot of fun without doing anything or by doing just a few relatively minor improvements along the lines of what MassNerd suggested in post #6.

My take is that the reality of significantly improving the handling performance of a stock car involves spending quite a bit of money, and that's just for a basic build.

If you haven't seen it yet, this was my initial build, and it was anything but inexpensive: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1532418. I chose that route based upon many years of experience, wanting only to make the car safe on the track, much more willing to turn, and able to keep its rear tires hooked-up.

I went on to do more to my car, but only because that's my habit and my hobby. The initial build created the major transformation in the car's behavior that I was always going to have, no matter which BMW I bought.

[blkreaper]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

The fastest way to lower lap times is improving the driver. Unless you're maxxing out the stock suspension @ the track you don't need springs - unless it's for looks.

this is not what they asked

[WolfGTI]

Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by blkreaper

this is not what they asked

[ErikB]

Hi, new here. Thought I'd add a bit of my experience.

Springs alone can help a tiny bit when they aren't too low or too stiff. They need to stay within the ability of the strut to dampen them.

I have found the cheapest improvement comes from simply maximizing the contact patch. Camber and air pressure changes are easy (well, the F2x needs camber plates=$) but air pressure is free. When you add springs, you aren't changing the geometry, as a strut suspension still carries the king pin in the same arc of travel, but adding static negative camber will help. stiffer springs will reduce the body roll a hair, so camber may be a bit less aggressive with them. And if the tires are rolling too much, then a bit more pressure will be needed. Fun stuff to mess around with.

An autoX car might benefit a little from a tiny bit of toe out too for faster turn in. I am also not sure if trail braking helps the F2x chassis rotate (helped in my e36M3)

but yes, mild springs will help a little but the window of improvement is small and going too low or too stiff can negate gains. the slightly lower CG isn't really drastic enough to notice honestly, not in heavy cars 😁

[marcthedark]

And springs with a stiffer spring rate can ruin the cars behaviour on all but perfect roads.
Hop over into any UK board for the M135 M140 Hatch. They put harder springs in the back of the M140 > and that makes the M140 to loose grip etc. after fitting M135 springs the owners are much happier.
So shorter springs will most likely not decrease the lap times as they probably upset the car and decrese traction etc. Exceptions might exist, but I don't think springs are the suspensions weak(est) point.

[Info@mad-us.com]

A good alignment would probably help more.

[Jamesjedi]

Truth is always better. That said, I wish the springs performed better. From a price point, they are difficult to not want. The question is; are the coilovers really worth it?

If money was not an object...unfortunately it is.