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      04-12-2019, 01:16 PM   #67
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pro tip... never take a counter offier; thats how you become a slave
*You'll become a slave because other companies want you.*


Are you sentient or a bot that works for his robot dad?
taking a counter offer at a current work place has 2 great dangers

1) the company knows you're a flight risk and may only be retaining you temporarily

2) now that u did accept; they can use and abuse you as your other offer has already disappeared and again they have the upper hand
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      04-12-2019, 01:16 PM   #68
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pro tip... never take a counter offier; thats how you become a slave
I feel the same....once I make my mind up to leave, it's a done deal. I look at it as if I am worth more money when leaving, why weren't they paying me what I was worth to begin with.

So by that point I'm done although I do it professionally and have never burned any bridges. In fact I am working now at a company I worked for years ago that kept me on as a consultant when I left.

When they heard that my new company had been sold, they called me and asked if I would be interested in coming back...in a new position of course.
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      04-12-2019, 01:34 PM   #69
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taking a counter offer at a current work place has 2 great dangers

1) the company knows you're a flight risk and may only be retaining you temporarily

2) now that u did accept; they can use and abuse you as your other offer has already disappeared and again they have the upper hand
Possible or you have legitimate problems with the current job, you discuss it with them, they fix it and things are ok.

I recently tried to keep an engineer who said he was leaving because he had to travel too much and he wasn't paid enough. I offered to cut his travel and raise his pay. He decided to leave anyway but none of what you are saying would have happened to him, he was a good employee and we wanted him to stay.

"knows you're a flight risk" - almost every good employee is a flight risk, if they find a better job there is a risk they will leave. Really bad employees are the least likely to be a flight risk, they suck and everyone knows it.

"they can use and abuse you" - every employer could do that also but good employers don't do it to good employees as they know there is a risk they will leave. Nothing stopping all "use and abuse" for every employee other than the flight risk.

You make is seem like once you stay at your current employer that all options to ever leave are gone and the employer believes it.
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      04-12-2019, 03:45 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
taking a counter offer at a current work place has 2 great dangers

1) the company knows you're a flight risk and may only be retaining you temporarily

2) now that u did accept; they can use and abuse you as your other offer has already disappeared and again they have the upper hand
Possible or you have legitimate problems with the current job, you discuss it with them, they fix it and things are ok.

I recently tried to keep an engineer who said he was leaving because he had to travel too much and he wasn't paid enough. I offered to cut his travel and raise his pay. He decided to leave anyway but none of what you are saying would have happened to him, he was a good employee and we wanted him to stay.

"knows you're a flight risk" - almost every good employee is a flight risk, if they find a better job there is a risk they will leave. Really bad employees are the least likely to be a flight risk, they suck and everyone knows it.

"they can use and abuse you" - every employer could do that also but good employers don't do it to good employees as they know there is a risk they will leave. Nothing stopping all "use and abuse" for every employee other than the flight risk.

You make is seem like once you stay at your current employer that all options to ever leave are gone and the employer believes it.
personally speaking... most people leave for a reason... either better opportunity or feel they havent been treated right... everytime i've been countered and moved on; it was for the better... strictly personal experience
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      06-06-2019, 09:55 PM   #71
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Is talking behind everyone's back a common thing in all businesses?
I've been working here (as an intern) for about a month now and holy shit it's WAY too much complaining about other teams but no one has the balls to openly communicate the issue or to tell the higher ups to hand it to them either it's just an unending cycle of bitching
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      06-07-2019, 05:51 AM   #72
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Is talking behind everyone's back a common thing in all businesses?
I've been working here (as an intern) for about a month now and holy shit it's WAY too much complaining about other teams but no one has the balls to openly communicate the issue or to tell the higher ups to hand it to them either it's just an unending cycle of bitching
Unfortunately it is.

Our production teams are like this. We have 9 different teams that alternate shifts.

And lucky me....since I keep such strange hours, I get to interact with all of them and have become the "sounding board" for all of their complaints against each other. For some reason they trust me implicitly. It's because they know I will keep anything they ask in confidence.

But I also tell them that if the matter pertains to the "health" of the company, they have no anonymity as I will bring something to light personally...so they need to "tread lightly" when they confide in me.

But most of the time it's just them needing to get petty stuff off of their shoulders without worrying about repercussions if it were to get back to someone else.

I tell them if they have legitimate concerns, they need to go to their manager, and if that doesn't get anything done...go to the next step.

But we also work with some very dangerous stuff...so no one can afford to be off of their game in this place or someone will get hurt very quickly!
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      06-07-2019, 07:14 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Turkish Pickle View Post
Is talking behind everyone's back a common thing in all businesses?
I've been working here (as an intern) for about a month now and holy shit it's WAY too much complaining about other teams but no one has the balls to openly communicate the issue or to tell the higher ups to hand it to them either it's just an unending cycle of bitching
Yep. I work for a HUGE tech company. But most of the time it's just complaining between my boss and I with stuff like, "If we are redesigning the UI for the 20.1 release, why even bother moving things around in the 19.2 release?"

"Why did they change a feature name in the 19.1 release without telling us?"


But I'm not going to complain too much. Monday, out of nowhere I found out I got a raise and another chunk of RSUs.
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      06-07-2019, 07:59 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish Pickle View Post
Is talking behind everyone's back a common thing in all businesses?
I've been working here (as an intern) for about a month now and holy shit it's WAY too much complaining about other teams but no one has the balls to openly communicate the issue or to tell the higher ups to hand it to them either it's just an unending cycle of bitching
Yes......it is. Sadly, if you don't join in you become like me, the outcast; then no one likes you. If you participate and say anything negative about anyone, that person will eventually tell the other person what you said, making you the bad guy. In the event that you don't participate, then you are viewed as uppity or whatever from the person who has initiated the negative banter.

Advice from someone who deals with it ALL DAY LONG (and it's actually happening as I type this) just ignore it. Some people never grow up. Most "adults" are only adults in theory of their age. Most never progress mentally after age 14. Some are able to deal with it and avoid being sucked into it, these people are the ones who typically become supervisors/successful (if that's what you want to call it). I prefer to work in small companies with like-minded individuals who are there only to make money. We don't have to be friends, just have the ability to communicate clearly and stay out of each others way when it comes to raking in cash. Unfortunately this is not the situation I am currently in, but it's safe from a financial standpoint.
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      06-07-2019, 08:10 AM   #75
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I work for a OEM turbine manufacture and I feel the same way, im very good at my job and work 150% harder than all around me but if your not in the buddy buddy click you don't move up, I been working here for five years and got pass a promotion to a newer guy that works less than me but he is buddy buddy with the inner group....

I feel stagnant in my development and current contemplating pulling the rip cord and find somewhere else...

I guess it happens to all of us
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      06-07-2019, 08:15 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
See my original post on the first page some time ago.



After hours of discussion, I stood strong and gave my final "no" a couple hours ago. On to the next!
I am also in engineering management (came up technically), and have had similar struggles. In the beginning, I just did more work because I didn't like how it was done by my reports. After a few years, I learned that while I may do it better or more efficiently, that was not sustainable, so I learned to delegate, even if the results are sub-par. It is a continual struggle though. For more critical things, I still tend to do 'other people's work.' The best way to handle it is to be able to coach them to do better, but that is idealistic (assumes the person is capable and willing - big assumption).

And you made the right choice. Unless you are strictly leaving for money, the extra money from the retaining effort only makes you happy for a month, and then you are unhappy again.

Last edited by Reborn_; 06-07-2019 at 08:23 AM..
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      06-07-2019, 08:26 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish Pickle View Post
Is talking behind everyone's back a common thing in all businesses?
I've been working here (as an intern) for about a month now and holy shit it's WAY too much complaining about other teams but no one has the balls to openly communicate the issue or to tell the higher ups to hand it to them either it's just an unending cycle of bitching
Unfortunately it is.

Our production teams are like this. We have 9 different teams that alternate shifts.

And lucky me....since I keep such strange hours, I get to interact with all of them and have become the "sounding board" for all of their complaints against each other. For some reason they trust me implicitly. It's because they know I will keep anything they ask in confidence.

But I also tell them that if the matter pertains to the "health" of the company, they have no anonymity as I will bring something to light personally...so they need to "tread lightly" when they confide in me.

But most of the time it's just them needing to get petty stuff off of their shoulders without worrying about repercussions if it were to get back to someone else.

I tell them if they have legitimate concerns, they need to go to their manager, and if that doesn't get anything done...go to the next step.

But we also work with some very dangerous stuff...so no one can afford to be off of their game in this place or someone will get hurt very quickly!
For us its not slacking off or not being on their A game - it's stuff like this. The architects design something (its pretty too) but it's out of budget for the owner. Then at the owner's meeting they show it without telling us, and then the owner wants it (completely understandable). But no one tells them they cant afford it, so after the meeting the construction vs design war breaks out. It's annoying because if we coordinate before these meetings stuff like this wouldn't happen...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish Pickle View Post
Is talking behind everyone's back a common thing in all businesses?
I've been working here (as an intern) for about a month now and holy shit it's WAY too much complaining about other teams but no one has the balls to openly communicate the issue or to tell the higher ups to hand it to them either it's just an unending cycle of bitching
Yes......it is. Sadly, if you don't join in you become like me, the outcast; then no one likes you. If you participate and say anything negative about anyone, that person will eventually tell the other person what you said, making you the bad guy. In the event that you don't participate, then you are viewed as uppity or whatever from the person who has initiated the negative banter.

Advice from someone who deals with it ALL DAY LONG (and it's actually happening as I type this) just ignore it. Some people never grow up. Most "adults" are only adults in theory of their age. Most never progress mentally after age 14. Some are able to deal with it and avoid being sucked into it, these people are the ones who typically become supervisors/successful (if that's what you want to call it). I prefer to work in small companies with like-minded individuals who are there only to make money. We don't have to be friends, just have the ability to communicate clearly and stay out of each others way when it comes to raking in cash. Unfortunately this is not the situation I am currently in, but it's safe from a financial standpoint.
I mean I can be extremely childish too but I also know when to be and when not to be and it's not stuff like this. I'm not really looking to make office friends, a lot of the other interns are from my school too. The cool ones we hang out with outside of work anyway - I don't participate in the bad talking because I'm just an intern. Don't want to be labeled that right off the bat, but it's still pretty annoying to hear all this when all it takes is an email with the director or something CC'd...
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Hella happens dude
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      06-07-2019, 08:43 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Yep. I work for a HUGE tech company. But most of the time it's just complaining between my boss and I with stuff like, "If we are redesigning the UI for the 20.1 release, why even bother moving things around in the 19.2 release?"

"Why did they change a feature name in the 19.1 release without telling us?"


But I'm not going to complain too much. Monday, out of nowhere I found out I got a raise and another chunk of RSUs.















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      06-07-2019, 08:56 AM   #79
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Answering this question honestly - i truly am not sure what ‘happy in my job’ is.

I am good at my job, and i’m pretty secure and respected within my organization. I know my work is important and my company makes me feel that it (and i) are valued. Finally, i make a great wage and it keeps me in a lifestyle i’m happy with.

But i don’t love my job. It doesn’t inspire a feeling that i would define as happiness. What i’m really happy about is that it pays me well, and i don’t have to do it for unacceptably long hours...and that my income pays for me to do the things that do give me happiness.

But i don’t LOVE my work or get excited about coming to the office or any of that “luuurv what you do and you’ll never work a day in your life” bullshit. I kinda think that we do ourselves a disservice in expecting that in our lives, to be honest.

So i don’t know, am i happy in my current job? What’s the definition?
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      06-07-2019, 09:04 AM   #80
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Answering this question honestly - i truly am not sure what Ďhappy in my jobí is.

I am good at my job, and iím pretty secure and respected within my organization. I know my work is important and my company makes me feel that it (and i) are valued. Finally, i make a great wage and it keeps me in a lifestyle iím happy with.

But i donít love my job. It doesnít inspire a feeling that i would define as happiness. What iím really happy about is that it pays me well, and i donít have to do it for unacceptably long hours...and that my income pays for me to do the things that do give me happiness.

But i donít LOVE my work or get excited about coming to the office or any of that ďluuurv what you do and youíll never work a day in your lifeĒ bullshit. I kinda think that we do ourselves a disservice in expecting that in our lives, to be honest.

So i donít know, am i happy in my current job? Whatís the definition?
I don't think that concept of loving what you do and never working a day in your life really exists. You can really like your job, but no job is 100% free of stress. I have a few friends who own successful businesses doing what they love, but there is still stress in owning a business and managing a work/life balance, even though their actual work is something they love to do.

Liking what you do, having a good work/life balance, and being financially stable enough where you aren't a slave to your job seems to be the best combination.
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      06-07-2019, 09:53 AM   #81
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I mean I can be extremely childish too but I also know when to be and when not to be and it's not stuff like this. I'm not really looking to make office friends, a lot of the other interns are from my school too. The cool ones we hang out with outside of work anyway - I don't participate in the bad talking because I'm just an intern. Don't want to be labeled that right off the bat, but it's still pretty annoying to hear all this when all it takes is an email with the director or something CC'd...
There is a big difference between being an adult with child-like tendencies (being jovial and a pleasure to be around) versus a child in an adults body. Case in point, when the guy I work with on the side and I do security camera installs, we are constantly joking around and giving each other a hard time. Usually the people within earshot laugh their asses off unless they have a stick up their butt. All the while, we move quickly and work very efficiently together, make our money, educate the customer on their new equipment and get the hell out. We get complimented, referrals and more jobs based off our personalities and our level of professionalism when it comes down to getting the install completed and teaching the customer how to use their equipment in simple terminology all while making them laugh.

This is much different than someone who simply wants to complain, gossip and doesn't bother to communicate with others whose jobs/productivity is impacted by their negative behavior or general lack of concern for anyone other than themselves.

Nothing wrong with being child-like as long as the job/project is completed on time, inside budget and the end user/internal or external customer is satisfied with the result.
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      06-07-2019, 10:26 AM   #82
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everything in life has pros and cons, its how you deal with it.

i love my job, deadlines are stressful and people involve in projects makes it worse.
i deal with architects at different levels, rookies, premadonnas, old school etc. Overall is fun career with designs and development of house, apt, etc. I wish salary/raise was better, but my hours are flexible 7 to 3, i can work from home if i need to. None of that micro-managing crap. i keep all my design ahead of schedule since I am the only plumbing designer and been with same firm for 20yrs
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      06-07-2019, 10:49 AM   #83
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*the giant cheetoh*
I think we are the 2nd largest software company in the world, IIRC.
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      06-09-2019, 09:02 PM   #84
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Retired at 43. Worked a stressful job for 24 years, sold business now help non profits (volunteer) increase business. Wife’s always been bread winner so I take care of kids more although there’s one left at home and pretty much self-reliant
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      06-09-2019, 10:10 PM   #85
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Retired at 43. Worked a stressful job for 24 years, sold business now help non profits (volunteer) increase business. Wifeís always been bread winner so I take care of kids more although thereís one left at home and pretty much self-reliant
I like this. I always tell my wife that she has far more potential than me, and she should realize it soon so i can retire to a life of a gentleman of leisure.

She isnít quite with the program but iím working on it
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      06-13-2019, 04:40 AM   #86
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I wanna tell you a story of my niece. She'd been working as a teacher at school. First, she went along well but then she and her co-workers been forced to do the cleaning at school cause there ware no cleaners at all! They were cleaning desks and boards, vacuuming and doing other stuffs. Is it ok? Has anybody had the same situation?
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      06-13-2019, 08:07 AM   #87
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I guess I can bring a different perspective here.

Recently graduated in April 2018 with my BBA in Marketing. I have been "interning" at the same company since May 2017. I basically have a full-time load with no benefits, sick days, vacation days, etc. Needless to say it has been a lot of waiting.

We have been in the process of acquiring another company for 5.4B since Feb, 2018. There has been a hiring freeze since then. Multiple cuts, etc etc. Being the low man on the totem pole I have easily been passed over.

April, start of Q2, is finally opening up some positions. Hopefully this last year of waiting will be worth it!
Posted this 3 months ago. So, since then:

I ended up buying my first house (21) at the beginning of April, and the commute was 35 miles each way. This was really my big push.

Between May/June corporate has fired 20+ employees, complete shut down of marketing, engineering, and T&E spend. Only work is "business critical" and has to be approved by upper management. Corporate culture has gone down the drain along with our stock.

Happy to say I accepted a job offer in the Gas and Oil industry as a Sales and Marketing Development Representative. Basically start as inside sales with a push, and the goal to develop into outside sales quickly (6-8 months). Big bonus that my new job is only a 1/2 mile from my new house.

I believe I made the best decision for myself. If you aren't happy where you are at then make a change.
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      06-17-2019, 10:51 AM   #88
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My job is chaos but I thrive in chaos.

I recently got passed up for a promotion, where they went external. That kinda sucked.

President made all sorts of promises to keep me from looking outside the company and that I'll be part of the SLT soon.

I'm not actively looking, but also have recruiters reaching out to me every so often. I get paid well for the job I do, and there are a lot of future opportunities in the pipeline to keep me interested in staying with the company.

So to answer the question, I'm happy but not as happy as I could be.
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