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      12-10-2018, 12:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
It brings people out of working poverty.
Raising minimum wages also creates either a deficit (which is not allowed in the EU) or a bad economic competitive market.
If you raise minimum wage, the chance becomes bigger that that work will be relocated to a country with lower wages.
If you want to bring people out of working poverty, you have to see to it that they can do different, more skilled work. That way the economy becomes more competitive with other, higher paying economies.
And if you fund higher wages with money coming from higher tax brackets that you raise, more people in these tax brackets will leave the country, eventually resulting in a brain drain (which happens to a lot of eastern european countries).

These yellow vest demonstrators (not only the ones in france but also other countries) want more money without actually doing something about it. Because its easier to demonstrate and vandalizing a town and holding up your hand than study or try your best to make something of your life. Its lazy anarchistic scum and (especially) france is full of that.
Such demonstrations costs society a lot of money and is absolutely unproductive. Thats not going to make an economy grow and make it better.


I dont hear any argument of the yellow vests that actually points to a political aspect that would give an individual an increasing chance to grow and excel above his current situation. Like cheaper (of subsidized)or more study oppertunities, or tax cuts for starting businesses so that they have a bigger chance to succeed. No, they want to do the same stupid simple jobs that they have (or not even have....) and still get more money, because the people that do work hard and try their best to excel (and make money) apparently have succes in this economy.
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      12-10-2018, 12:13 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Ahhh I get it, poverty is all about attitude...change it and you can be whatever you want to be.
Yeah a lot of it has to do with attitude. If you ever lived in a neighborhood that can be labeled as "poor" you would quickly see that a lot of these people have bad attitudes and seek someone to blame for their lot in life. Those who do get out know that their circumstances are fucked up but only see it as a temporary situation.
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You can detect right away those that are going to be shaky, and that will fall behind and those that are very hungry, and that hunger you will have to develop. You gotta create a goal for yourself whatever that may be, a short term goal and a long term goal and you gotta go after that. And if you donít see it, and if you donít believe it, who else will?
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      12-10-2018, 12:21 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Yeah a lot of it has to do with attitude. If you ever lived in a neighborhood that can be labeled as "poor" you would quickly see that a lot of these people have bad attitudes and seek someone to blame for their lot in life. Those who do get out know that their circumstances are fucked up but only see it as a temporary situation.
Wow! You just solved poverty. All these people need is a copy of Tony Robbins' latest book.
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      12-10-2018, 12:24 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Wow! You just solved poverty. All these people need is a copy of Tony Robbins' latest book.
Dude I grew up in a shitty little apartment in Newark, NJ. It was cold in the winter and hot as fuck in the summer because we had no AC. I went to inner city schools, was in the military, and used the GI Bill to pay for my college. Now I make a 6 figure salary. Will meet way. So don't preach to me about poverty.
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You can detect right away those that are going to be shaky, and that will fall behind and those that are very hungry, and that hunger you will have to develop. You gotta create a goal for yourself whatever that may be, a short term goal and a long term goal and you gotta go after that. And if you donít see it, and if you donít believe it, who else will?
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      12-10-2018, 12:26 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Ahhh I get it, poverty is all about attitude...change it and you can be whatever you want to be.
Nope, you have to be willing to act too. You can have the right attitude all you want, but it is only worth so much.

Are you suggesting that the majority of those in these circumstances are not there because of poor life choices made along the way (and likely continued poor choices to this day)?

Because you and I would not agree if so. I completely agree and would support a program that would retrain / provide incentive for anyone in poverty to get the education to get a better job, learn a trade, provided they actually go out there and do it. And if you don't do it, a penalty should apply (which might seem unfair, but it keeps the incentive to actually follow through)

I'd happily pay higher taxes even to set up this program initially, with the expectation that taxes drop in 4 years lower than what I'm paying now (4 years being an average university degree). Do you know why? Because we'd have less people on welfare, and more contributing to society and more paying taxes. So taxes should drop. It would be a great investment and it would help the country.

What would be very interesting is to see what percentage of the population would take advantage of this program, because again, I think attitude is one of the first things that needs to change, and I'm not sure people are willing to change.
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      12-10-2018, 12:29 PM   #94
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46499996
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46499996
8 hours ago - The "yellow vest" protests have been "a catastrophe" for the French economy, the finance minister says. France has seen four consecutive ...

Macron to speak to French on protests; But is it too late? - AP News
https://www.apnews.com/e3788b2dc7b14229be0eaadc7cc8b450
3 hours ago - PARIS (AP) ó French President Emmanuel Macron will be speaking to his nation at last Monday, after increasingly violent, radicalized protests ...

I hope things settle down and things return to normal. I like Macron much better than the other choices in the last french election.
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      12-10-2018, 01:20 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Dude I grew up in a shitty little apartment in Newark, NJ. It was cold in the winter and hot as fuck in the summer because we had no AC. I went to inner city schools, was in the military, and used the GI Bill to pay for my college. Now I make a 6 figure salary. Will meet way. So don't preach to me about poverty.
Do you recognize that their are people who don't have the opportunity, ability etc to do what you did?
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      12-10-2018, 01:21 PM   #96
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I really hope they bring it back.
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      12-10-2018, 01:58 PM   #97
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Got real boot strappy in here real quick
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      12-10-2018, 02:06 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Seems to be working fine to some degree in Canada, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, Belgium, etc to name a few.
What no France?? None of the countries you mention are socialist. Yes they have more of a socialist safety net than the US but they are not socialist, in fact they are very much capitalist.. For example Sweden has some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world in order to attract business. Funny how you left out Venezuela, which is a fully socialist country.
Apart from health care, what others "socialist safety net" does Canada offer more than the US?

I'm actually curious as the US seems to have so many welfare programs such as EI, food stamps, subsidized healthcare etc.
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      12-10-2018, 02:51 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Apart from health care, what others "socialist safety net" does Canada offer more than the US?

I'm actually curious as the US seems to have so many welfare programs such as EI, food stamps, subsidized healthcare etc.
See, our southern neighbours are just as 'socialist' as we are.
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      12-10-2018, 02:55 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Ahhh I get it, poverty is all about attitude...change it and you can be whatever you want to be.
Nope, you have to be willing to act too. You can have the right attitude all you want, but it is only worth so much.

Are you suggesting that the majority of those in these circumstances are not there because of poor life choices made along the way (and likely continued poor choices to this day)?

Because you and I would not agree if so. I completely agree and would support a program that would retrain / provide incentive for anyone in poverty to get the education to get a better job, learn a trade, provided they actually go out there and do it. And if you don't do it, a penalty should apply (which might seem unfair, but it keeps the incentive to actually follow through)

I'd happily pay higher taxes even to set up this program initially, with the expectation that taxes drop in 4 years lower than what I'm paying now (4 years being an average university degree). Do you know why? Because we'd have less people on welfare, and more contributing to society and more paying taxes. So taxes should drop. It would be a great investment and it would help the country.

What would be very interesting is to see what percentage of the population would take advantage of this program, because again, I think attitude is one of the first things that needs to change, and I'm not sure people are willing to change.
These programs already exist, but you shouldn't think of them in a federal level.

Every province has something of the like.
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      12-10-2018, 03:28 PM   #101
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Very strange, in 2014, entire democratic world supported armed revolution in Ukraine...






...and now, in Paris, the whole democratic world calls for stopping the riots, it is very strange...
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      12-10-2018, 03:45 PM   #102
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You really think that what the yellow vests protest against is similar to the situation in the Ukraine in 2014?
That situation involved a new constitution and a unanimous impeachment of the president....
At that moment putin decided to forcefully intervene (technically starting a war against a souvereign state without concent of the UN....) and do some land stealing....

Luckily the 'whole democratic world' does understand the difference in these 2 cases....
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      12-10-2018, 03:46 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
You really think that what the yellow vests protest against is similar to the situation in the Ukraine in 2014?
That situation involved a new constitution and a unanimous impeachment of the president....
At that moment putin decided to forcefully intervene (technically starting a war against a souvereign state without concent of the UN....) and do some land stealing....

Luckily the 'whole democratic world' does understand the difference in these 2 cases....
That will always be only your opinion. There are other opinions out there...
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      12-10-2018, 03:52 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Ivanov View Post
Very strange, in 2014, entire democratic world supported armed revolution in Ukraine...


...and now, in Paris, the whole democratic world calls for stopping the riots, it is very strange...
Are you trolling the French?
The Ukrainians were wanting freedom, and freedom from Russia.

A small minority of French and anarchists are rioting because....they can.
So does Russia now invade since there were riots? You know, they have a habit there......

How would they deal with this in Russia? Green paint to the faces? Maybe some of the Syrian regimes idea of "tear gas"?
I do remember some discontent in your country over the retirement age, which many men won't even reach! I forget if ROMA mentioned that when he was talking about the Russian workers paradise........
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      12-10-2018, 03:53 PM   #105
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That will always be only your opinion. There are other opinions out there...
No its not an 'opinion' that the yellow vest movement demonstrates with different demands than the 2014 events in the ukraine..

Also how the riot police goes about differs quite a bit between the france establishment and the then ukrainian establishment. Havent heard yet about useage of live ammo and sniper rifles in Paris....
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      12-10-2018, 04:12 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
That will always be only your opinion. There are other opinions out there...
No its not an 'opinion' that the yellow vest movement demonstrates with different demands than the 2014 events in the ukraine..

Also how the riot police goes about differs quite a bit between the france establishment and the then ukrainian establishment. Havent heard yet about useage of live ammo and sniper rifles in Paris....
Ah I completely agree the motivations for the riot are different, and it is my opinion that what's happening in Paris is not asking for a deep change as some Ukrainians were.

I was referring to your opinion in regards to Crimea.
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      12-10-2018, 04:30 PM   #107
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I was referring to your opinion in regards to Crimea.
Ah right. well about that, in the next diagram of the world the countries that are coloured pink support the militairy actions from russia annexating crimea:


And the rest is opposed to their militairy intervention. I pretty much calll that the whole democratic world.
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      12-10-2018, 04:33 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post

I was referring to your opinion in regards to Crimea.
Ah right. well about that, in the next diagram of the world the countries that are coloured pink support the militairy actions from russia annexating crimea:


And the rest is opposed to their militairy intervention. I pretty much calll that the whole democratic world.
Perfect.

The only one that matters is Crimea itself. Since they're "pink", I'm good with that.

Or one wouldn't want to impose on what others want, would one?
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      12-10-2018, 04:43 PM   #109
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Perfect.

The only one that matters is Crimea itself. Since they're "pink", I'm good with that.
WTF?!?!?
No they're NOT!

Something tells me you dont even know where crimea is on that map

....Its DEFINATELY NOT pink on that map.

With russia invading crimea they violated their own signed accords from the early 90's and thus violating the borders of a souvereign state. In my book thats an act of war, stealing land from another country.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 12-10-2018 at 04:59 PM..
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      12-10-2018, 05:13 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
Perfect.

The only one that matters is Crimea itself. Since they're "pink", I'm good with that.
WTF?!?!?
No they're NOT!

Something tells me you dont even know where crimea is on that map

....Its DEFINATELY NOT pink on that map.

With russia invading crimea they violated their own signed accords from the early 90's and thus violating the borders of a souvereign state. In my book thats an act of war, stealing land from another country.
LOL sure, attack me and my knowledge or lack thereof. You win the debate. I'm sure your opinion isn't up for change.

But I'll leave you with a Wikipedia link (since you posted a Wikipedia image):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014...tus_referendum

PS: it's spelt "definitely".
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