[dezzracer]

The non "true M" owners are in the wrong forum anyway. It clearly states M3/M4.

Edit: oops forgot this thread was posted on the news board. Carry on.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Your replies are somewhat confusing, Dezzracer and I weren't talking about brand positioning of the three shelby vehicles or which is the "top dog" we were specifically referring to badging outside of the performance division.

The GT500 is the top of the line, although the 350 and 500 serve different purposes, but some argue the GT350 to be more fun as a road car due to the manual transmission, higher redline from the NA engine, and better steering feel.

You're confused, I'm confused? The GTR350 has a starting price that is more than the GT500 but less in specs it appears, which is the better car is it the GTR because it's more expensive?

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...

[cbertels]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Nowhere, love the M cars, and love educating you ///M fairies with deep pockets who know nothing about BMW mechanics and engineering.

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me why the specifications of a "true" ///M is light years beyond a track rated M340i? 30 pages and nothing, just feel, essence, perception and "bespoke" lol. Is it the 3rd party manufacturer parts? Or because it has 3 buttons that make you "feel" like a it's Porsche cockpit that A) "electronically" tightens the steering wheel B) Changes the dampening and rebound on the average M3 coilovers or maybe it's C) the Sport+ that really gets you hard as it flashes across the digital cockpit that just changes the gear ratios and turns off DTC.

Track rated? I think you mean service loaner.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

give it a rest man. everyone is entitled to their opinion;

it even says on the website its inspired by BMW M.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

You're confused, I'm confused? The GTR350 has a starting price that is more than the GT500 but less in specs it appears, which is the better car is it the GTR because it's more expensive?

My argument is does the new M340i that's developed by the M division (which is apparently the main caveat for the ///M fanboys) with M division parts, sacrilegious to to have the M badge on its end when BMW GmbH themselves say so?

No one ever on the thread questioned that it's the premium M version. Its just funny to see /// M guys so offended because their car is getting watered down, what else could it be? Any real BMW person knows what's the premium car.

Is an Audi S5 which is the original Audi sport car now a less of a car even though the more recently developed RS5 line is the premium sport line of Audi? Who cares, don't get OFFENDED, love your car, don't hate on the brand(ing)...

GT350 = Road car that can also hold its own on the track. Aimed for the enthusiast, with a NA V8 (that sounds glorious), 6MT only, RWD, etc. Similar to that of an M car in regards to the hierarchy of Mustangs. It is a fantastic sports car, drove one recently and I still can't get it out of my head.

GT350R = A GT350 that is buttoned down for hard track duty. Lighter weight includes many mechanical upgrades, can be optioned without radio, ac, backseats, etc., and is limited production, not really a road car. Similar to that of a CS/CSL. Here's more info on the R (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...s-a-999-extra/)

GT500 = Drag strip star, was always meant to be the fastest, while still retaining a front-engined V8 with RWD layout, thus why it only comes with an auto now, but also still be able to handle track duty.

Funny story, Shelby always said the meaning behind car names was useless, what was more important was that people remembered the name. So 350 is in reference to the amount of steps between Shelby's buildings, and 500 doesn't mean anything

This video is pretty good at going over some of the Shelby Mustang history, and is also just a pretty entertaining watch and has the ever so immature and funny but incredibly knowledgeable Jason Cammisa.

Regarding the M car naming scheme, it doesn't effect me, so I could care less, plus I own a fake AMG and love it, and I pretty much saw the whole thing coming with Mercedes following suit from Audi, and BMW tends to follow Mercedes a lot for certain things so, it was pretty inevitable. We should all be worried about BMW's styling department and sterilization of their cars more than their marketing plans of the M brand

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

GT350 = Road car that can also hold its own on the track. Aimed for the enthusiast, with a NA V8 (that sounds glorious), 6MT only, RWD, etc. Similar to that of an M car in regards to the hierarchy of Mustangs.

GT350R = A GT350 that is buttoned down for hard track duty. Lighter weight includes many mechanical upgrades, can be optioned without radio, ac, backseats, etc., and is limited production, not really a road car. Similar to that of a CS/CSL. Here's more info on the R (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15349969/ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-gets-its-back-seat-back-as-a-999-extra/)

GT500 = Drag strip star, was always meant to be the fastest, while still retaining a front-engined V8 with RWD layout, thus why it only comes with an auto now, but also still be able to handle track duty.

This video is pretty good at going over some of the Shelby Mustang history, and is also just a pretty entertaining watch and has the ever so immature and funny but incredibly knowledgeable Jason Cammisa.

Regarding the M car naming scheme, it doesn't effect me, so I could care less, plus I own a fake AMG and love it, and I pretty much saw the whole thing coming with Mercedes following suit from Audi, and BMW tends to follow Mercedes a lot for certain things so, it was pretty inevitable. We should all be worried about BMW's styling department and sterilization of their cars more than their marketing plans of the M brand

Thanks for that insight. Finally got some actual intelligent specs/feedback and it's not even referring the cars in question lol.

And your "fake" AMG is awesome bro . Would love to get my hands on a C43, I'd make it into a total sleeper/killer.

[Bumpinjeep]

The fact that this thread even exists is a testament to the marketing team at BMW. Take a volume seller/service loaner, throw some stickers on it, and bam, you got people believing they have something truly special. The same thing happened to Mercedes when the C450 magically changed to the C43 the next year. I get it, imitation is the best form of flattery, but come on BMW, you can do better than Mercedes and Audi.

[dezzracer]

Not sure how this thread turned into a Mustang discussion but I'm a Mustang fan having owned several "real" Mustang Cobras including the legendary 04 Cobra Terminator. That video is fantastic. Would love me a GT500 !!

[JeremyDFW]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Nowhere, love the M cars, and love educating you ///M fairies with deep pockets who know nothing about BMW mechanics and engineering.

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me why the specifications of a "true" ///M is light years beyond a track rated M340i? 30 pages and nothing, just feel, essence, perception and "bespoke" lol. Is it the 3rd party manufacturer parts? Or because it has 3 buttons that make you "feel" like it's a Porsche cockpit that A) "electronically" tightens the steering wheel B) Changes the dampening and rebound on the average M3 coilovers or maybe it's C) the Sport+ that really gets you hard as it flashes across the digital cockpit that just changes the gear ratios and turns off DTC.

Well... it wasn't A, B, or C for me. It was simply the car I wanted. And nope, I didn't know much about BMW mechanics or engineering. It's funny, because I didn't remember BMW asking me for that when I went in and wrote the check for my M3, or my M2C. Wasn't sure if paying for a car outright qualified me for ///M fairy status or not?! (I tried to google "///M Fairy Status" but just came up with stupid quotes from Pinterest.)

I'll just tell you directly what easily half the guys on here are thinking after reading your responses- you're bitter. Why? Not sure exactly, but given your multiple reference to "deep pockets" or "corporate types" - I'm pretty sure it's a bit related to the notion they're in a position that you aren't. And no one owe's anyone (especially you) a response if they are starting to feel that changes to the brand (and associated product) will impact their future buying habits.

Give it a rest. And maybe spend a little less time on the forums and a little more time hustling if you aren't where you want to be...

And yeah, I'm cranking the douchebaggery up a bit...

[Tazmn Jr]

Originally Posted by JeremyDFW

Well... it wasn't A, B, or C for me. It was simply the car I wanted. And nope, I didn't know much about BMW mechanics or engineering. It's funny, because I didn't remember BMW asking me for that when I went in and wrote the check for my M3, or my M2C. Wasn't sure if paying for a car outright qualified me for ///M fairy status or not?! (I tried to google "///M Fairy Status" but just came up with stupid quotes from Pinterest.)

I'll just tell you directly what easily half the guys on here are thinking after reading your responses- you're bitter. Why? Not sure exactly, but given your multiple reference to "deep pockets" or "corporate types" - I'm pretty sure it's a bit related to the notion they're in a position that you aren't. And no one owe's anyone (especially you) a response if they are starting to feel that changes to the brand (and associated product) will impact their future buying habits.

Give it a rest. And maybe spend a little less time on the forums and a little more time hustling if you aren't where you want to be...

And yeah, I'm cranking the douchebaggery up a bit...

I second the douchebaggery and couldnt have said it better. Be happy with what you purchased and stop trying to compare with what you didn't buy.

[dezzracer]

If some of you are wondering why the 03/04 Cobrá's were legendary it was all about the motor. It was the first factory supercharged Mustang. 32 valve 4 cammer in an iron block with a forged crank (made in Germany) Manley rods with an Eaton roots blower on top and everything was bolted down with ARP head bolts. It was a stout motor that came with 9 pounds of boost from the factory but would easily swallow 15 pounds without grenadeing.

The supercharger whine on that motor was legendary. 35k MSRP. Spend another $1500 on a smaller blower pulley, cold air intake, exhaust , and a tune and you were at 500 HP easy. That was a lot of power in 2004. Talk about a poor mans hot rod. I loved that car so much i could not bare to sell it when I got my M3 so I passed it down to my son.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by JeremyDFW

Well... it wasn't A, B, or C for me. It was simply the car I wanted. And nope, I didn't know much about BMW mechanics or engineering. It's funny, because I didn't remember BMW asking me for that when I went in and wrote the check for my M3, or my M2C. Wasn't sure if paying for a car outright qualified me for ///M fairy status or not?! (I tried to google "///M Fairy Status" but just came up with stupid quotes from Pinterest.)

I'll just tell you directly what easily half the guys on here are thinking after reading your responses- you're bitter. Why? Not sure exactly, but given your multiple reference to "deep pockets" or "corporate types" - I'm pretty sure it's a bit related to the notion they're in a position that you aren't. And no one owe's anyone (especially you) a response if they are starting to feel that changes to the brand (and associated product) will impact their future buying habits.

Give it a rest. And maybe spend a little less time on the forums and a little more time hustling if you aren't where you want to be...

And yeah, I'm cranking the douchebaggery up a bit...

So why is it the car you wanted? All indication is "status", perhaps a little fun, and that you're actually one of the people on this thread that are bitter/offended that the high end cars you paid for with your 'big check' is being diluted by what you interpret as a knockoff. Typical entitled elitist consumer "I paid good money for this and they're diminishing the value of MY product and lowering the standards!" Which isn't accurate... and yeah that general perception about a "BMW owner" (or those Pinterest memes in this case) are spot on.

Humility goes a long way and there are tons of BMW corporate owners with deep pockets etc, even on this thread, that are as such. Lol I don't know how any of my comments got interpreted that I am envious of M owners because I don't own a M. I'm actually in the market for an F82. Even funnier is I will never buy a M340i either because it isn't the car for me, but from track experience of ripping the car around one doing the same an M3, M5 etc. it's one amazing engineering ingenuity that should be lauded and a testament to BMW.

[Tazmn Jr]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

So why is it the car you wanted? All indication is "status", perhaps a little fun, and that you're actually one of the people on this thread that are bitter/offended that the high end cars you paid for with your 'big check' is being diluted by what you interpret as a knockoff. Typical entitled elitist consumer "I paid good money for this and they're diminishing the value of MY product and lowering the standards!" Which isn't accurate... and yeah that general perception about a "BMW owner" (or those Pinterest memes in this case) are spot on.

Humility goes a long way and there are tons of BMW corporate owners with deep pockets etc, even on this thread, that are as such.

With the right modifications, I guess this is an M car too.....It has an M badge on it

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by Tazmn Jr

I guess this is an M car too.....It has an M badge on it

Not even relevant. That's ok, ignorance is bliss.

Another bitter ///M owner.

[M135iXdriver]

Holy... what's up with this frustration in here?

I got an M because I wanted one... it was one of my life goals.

IMHO, BMW will of course say something different today because of marketing and sales, the "new" M line or old M Performance line is not a proper M.

Man up and deal with it.

I remember BMW called it a few years back a "fine tune by the M GmbH".

I owned an M135i xDrive - I could not afford an M1 back these days... an M3 was far far away and an M5 a wet dream... thus I took the "smallest" one with the IL6.

And I neither regretted it nor did I ever felt hate or disgust against other M owners or these who stated it is not a proper M because they were simply right!

There are just too many differences to put them in the same bag - to state something different just to feel better is simply a lie.

We have a saying... opinions are like assholes, everyone has its own - this is my opinion.

[Ciber]

Originally Posted by cbertels

Track rated? I think you mean service loaner.

🤣

It's all fun and games until it overheats on the 5th lap.

[JeremyDFW]

Why?

1. Sedan, tons of aftermarket support beginning as it entered 2nd year of production. A friend of mine had an M4 and after seeing it - I wanted one. And yeah... Harris' review of it sold of ton of these cars, mine included.

2. I enjoy the hell out of driving and even in the harsh winter of Minneapolis - no issues with this car handling 12" snow with winter tires.

3. Because it's what I wanted.

It's a $75K car that's at best worth $35K today - even after the 15k or more of "stuff" that's been bolted on. So whatever status you think exists, I'm sorry to inform you... it's imaginary, no such thing. If anything - it shows how financially foolish some of us are over 4 wheels and an affinity for "cars."

You're the one preaching status by making claims of knowing about the engineering and blah, blah, blah.

Humility... take a hard look back. I'm responding with what your perceived projection has been of the "M owner" by the references you've made.

But whatever, hey - you do you. Enjoy that F82 and the "status"

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by M135iXdriver

Holy... what's up with this frustration in here?

I got an M because I wanted one... it was one of my life goals.

IMHO, BMW will of course say something different today because of marketing and sales, the "new" M line or old M Performance line is not a proper M.

Man up and deal with it.

I remember BMW called it a few years back a "fine tune by the M GmbH".

I owned an M135i xDrive - I could not afford an M1 back these days... an M3 was far far away and an M5 a wet dream... thus I took the "smallest" one with the IL6.

And I neither regretted it nor did I ever felt hate or disgust against other M owners or these who stated it is not a proper M because they were simply right!

There are just too many differences to put them in the same bag - to state something different just to feel better is simply a lie.

We have a saying... opinions are like assholes, everyone has its own - this is my opinion.

Yeah and I remember back in 2012 —and this is clear for all you E92 M3 owners myself included — that there was rumor of BMW M moving away from the sacred bespoke S65 V8 engine, that purrs like no other, towards an IL6 turbo engine. There were posts upon posts, in car meets/groups, magazines, you name it how sacrilegious and disappointing this move was. Lo and behold BMW really stuck it to everyone by unveiling the amazing S55 engine in the F80.

BMW GmbH makes bold defining moves that seems to always work out. I trust the brand. I'm questioning the facade of the G80 M3 but wouldn't be surprised if I ended up eventually liking it. I doubt true ///M owners who won't end up liking the design of the G80 M3 are going to buy it simply for the badge.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by JeremyDFW

Why?

1. Sedan, tons of aftermarket support beginning as it entered 2nd year of production. A friend of mine had an M4 and after seeing it - I wanted one. And yeah... Harris' review of it sold of ton of these cars, mine included.

2. I enjoy the hell out of driving and even in the harsh winter of Minneapolis - no issues with this car handling 12" snow with winter tires.

3. Because it's what I wanted.

It's a $75K car that's at best worth $35K today - even after the 15k or more of "stuff" that's been bolted on. So whatever status you think exists, I'm sorry to inform you... it's imaginary, no such thing. If anything - it shows how financially foolish some of us are over 4 wheels and an affinity for "cars."

You're the one preaching status by making claims of knowing about the engineering and blah, blah, blah.

Humility... take a hard look back. I'm responding with what your perceived projection has been of the "M owner" by the references you've made.

But whatever, hey - you do you. Enjoy that F82 and the "status"

Fair enough. Don't care about the status, care about the S55 potential and the F82 good looks

As far as the engineering it's pretty apparent alI I was looking for was a technical perspective or argument why the M340i isn't worthy of the M moniker even though it was produced by the M division. Something like "hey the M340i IMO isn't worthy because driving it like this, or overtime, this weak component X is going to fail and isn't up to M engineering standard." Or "it doesn't have this technical structure that differentiates and gives advantage to an M car". Or "I drove it, and IMO it oversteers and doesn't shift correctly, etc." Anything a synopsis, a technical spreadsheet, simple mechanical cross references between the two.

All I ended up getting was a pretty cool education on Ford Mustangs lol.

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by Ciber

🤣

It's all fun and games until it overheats on the 5th lap.

Or the crank hub can just simply fail on lap 1, an issue addressed on the B58 M340i

[Ciber]

Originally Posted by nicky dj

Or the crank hub can just simply fail on lap 1, an issue addressed on the B58 M340i

Have never had any issues with my car. Has been to track and the drag strip a bunch of times. Tuned since day one, used and abused every chance I get. 😁

I had a 135is before and the engine mounts among other things failed/had issues in less than 2 years of use from the hard driving.

[HyeM340i]

Anyone calling their M340i/M240i a real M is delusional. M performance is its own branch, just like the 1st M535i. M performance models are just a tad slower than their M counterpart but lose some of the performance aspects (harder sus, better steering, etc.) Imo the M340i is a way better road car, that can take a dump on 99% of cars on the road. An M3 is a different animal.