[Think-U-R-Mario-Andretti?]

I just had this terrible experience with buying a new 2017 M240 CV and I want to share what I found out.

I live in Marin County, north of San Francisco and on Fri. May 18th 2018 I went on a road trip to Monument Valley, AZ in my 2009 128 CV with 70,000 miles on it. At 3:30pm and 40 miles past Bakersfield, CA it broke down and after spending $1,800 and waiting 3 days they told me that the engine was gone. The piston in one cylinder had completely disintegrated. Replacing the engine with a used one would still have cost me $7,000-8,000 pretty much the value of the car, which didn't make sense to me. The car was 10 years old, but run great and had only 70,000 miles on it and for the engine to blow up like that is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS, but that is a different topic.

Background:
The car I really wanted is a M2 Convertible, but BMW is not building one and may never. A couple of month prior I went to BMW San Rafael and checked out the new M240 CV out of curiosity. When I checked it out I noticed that some cars came either with a setup of 225/40 tires all around and others with a staggered setup with 225/40 up front and 245/35 in back. I asked about it and they told me that the first came with All Season Run Flat tires and the second with high performance summer non-run flat tires and they may also have told me that the speed limiter was different for the 2 setups. I was not that excited about the M240 and basically decided to keep my 09 128 CV, which was running great, for another couple of years and wait if BMW comes out with a M2 Convertible.

Back to May 2018
It was Mo. May 21 when they told me that the engine of the 09 128 CV was gone and I looked around their lot and they had only one M240 Convertible on the lot, a 2017 in white, with automatic transmission. This car had the 225/40 all around setup and I knew from before that I didn't like this setup for some reason, but had forgotten why. I grilled the sales person about it, including what speed the limiter was set to, and the sales person affirmed that the limiter was set to 155mph. My 09 128 CV was limited to 155pmh and I had driven it to 150pmh and DEFINITLY did NOT want a car with anything less. I ended up buying the car right there and then and continued my trip. I don't like run flat tires and put the Michelin Super Sports of my 09 128CV on the existing wheels (the M Performance wheels of my old car didn't fit over the brakes of the M240, despite what the sales person told me)

Driving through the Mojave Desert the following day I opened up the car and when I hit 130mph it suddenly didn't accelerate anymore. I tried a couple of times and then it hit me like a ton of brick, that the damn car WAS LIMITED TO 130PMH and the sales person had not know or had lied to me and deceived me. I was absolutely furious.... on that trip I probably hit 130mph 20 times and each time cursed the sales person.... lol

Long story short....
I demanded that either the speed limiter was increased to 155mph or I wanted to return the car. After a long back and forth they found out that the limiter could NOT BE CHANGED and they ended up taking the car back and I ordered a 2019 M240 CV with the M Performance 19" wheel & tired set up Type 405.

This is what I FOUND OUT and the CONCLUSION I came to:
- DO NOT TRUST THE SO-CALLED EXPERTS (meaning sales & service people
at the dealerships) THEY DON'T KNOW SHIT!!! You have to research and
confirm EVERYTHING, preferably from multiple sources. Don't assume they
know or inform you correctly about any aspect, especially if you want
something out of the ordinary.

- There is a amazing degree of ignorance about the different setup and speed
limiter of the M240. I spoke to several sales people and a service manager
and they DIDN'T KNOW. They should, but they don't.

- The DEFAULT ORDER SET UP for the M240i is the non-staggered All Season
run flat tire setup.... DO NOT TRUST THEM WITH THE ORDER IF YOU
WANT YOUR CAR WITH A HIGHER LIMIT!

- When the car is ordered with the All Season run flat tires IT IS LIMITED TO
130mph and this cannot be change by BMW or Dinan, because the tires are
not certified for higher speeds and it is a legal matter.

- When the car is ordered with the STAGGERED setup and high performance
summer, non-run flat tires the limiter is set to 155mph (250 kmh).

- The setting of the limiter is NOT a matter of run flats vs non-run flats, but
of All Season vs High Performance Summer tires. The setting of the limiter
is dependent on the kind of tires not on if they are run flats or non-run
flats. There is confusion about this in this forum! I ordered my 2019 M240
CV with the 19" wheel & tire package and they come with high performance
summer run-flat tires vs All season run-flats and consequently the limiter is
set to 155mph.

- BMW cannot or will not change the limiter and Dinan told me that they do
not cannot either (as of June 18)

- There may be After Market ways to change or remove the speed limiter,
but they would invalidate the warranty of the car.

- One guy, who is a Dinan dealer, told me that if the car is under 1,000 miles
the limiter still can theoretically be changed, but after that the computer
encrypts itself and the limiter cannot be changed after that happens. I
DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS ACTUALLY TRUE?

I went through this INFURIATING ORDEAL with the BMW dealership in Bakersfield, which I don't wish on anybody. It took incredible amounts of time and nerves, before they agreed to take back the car and I ended up ordering a completely new car from Germany. There were endless lies and deceptions by the sales people and General Sales manager and only the General Manager had any idea of the meaning of INTEGRITY.

Even with the new car there were fuck ups and I felt DEFRAUDED, both by the General Sales manger and even BMW USA. I had to be incredibly alert and question everything I was told, otherwise I would have been taken for a ride. I negotiate endlessly and it was a frustrating and time consuming ordeal, but in the end I got a great deal on the new car, but it cost me.

Hope this clarifies and helps all of you on this forum...

[liebetrau88]

Vin of the old car?

[hwntime]

All you have to do is run the last 7 digits of the VIN and if has S840A High speed synchronisation as an option, you have a higher limit.

[MarkDemma]

I also had a bad experience with a dealer not really knowing about tire / speed limiter options. When I ordered mine, I was told that the 18" M Double-spoke bi-color wheels, style 719M with performance non run-flat tires were not available, if I wanted the bi-color wheels, I had to get the run flat all seasons. I didn't care for the all black 719Ms so I thought I'd just get the all seasons and swap out the tires. What I wasn't told was that the all seasons came with the non staggered 7.5 / 225 all around so I wouldn't have the option of replacing the rear with 245s. Honestly the 130 / 155 is more psychological than anything, BUT the smaller wheels means I'm going to have to get new wheels too ... and I do like the look of the bi color 719M. It's frustrating when you have a dealer that doesn't understand these things and can help you make informed decisions.

[orangeglim]

I can't see the limiter being 130 or 155 mattering any where other than on the track. Not legally anyway. That's probably why the dealer wasn't knowledgeable about it, because for 99.999999999% of customers being able to go 130 or 155mph is not something that ever happens or matters.

[XutvJet]

Man, that's a lot of money spent just to get the 155mph limiter LOL

Most anyone in their right mind wouldn't try and approach 130-155 mph on US public roads as it would mean a mandatory jail time in most any state except maybe Montana. Additionally, there probably are very few tracks in the US where someone could actually get their M235/M240 up to 130mph+ on a straight. Given that you've got a convertible, you're definitely not in the bucket of tracking your car.

Yes, the dealer was misinformed, but as the buyer, you should have done your due diligence as well. They unlikely were trying to mislead you. You sound like a rather difficult customer and are quite hard to please.

[Poochie]

Is it really that serious?

I swear, some folks here seem to run out things to bitch about and go off the deep end (Mazda Loaner )..

Here in New York City, 40mph over the speed limit could get you arrested, on the cop's discretion.. And the fastest speed limit in the city is 55mph.. Which matches most US states.. Do the math..

As long as I have enough passing power to hit at least over a 100, I am more than satisfied..

BTW, Bootmod has a tune to overwrite the top speed restriction, in case you feel the need to total your car..

[Ron Jeffries]

I imagine somewhere in nevada or something.you could hit 150 and kill only yourself, but not anywhere i'm likely ever to be.

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Is it really that serious?

I swear, some folks here seem to run out things to bitch about and go off the deep end (Mazda Loaner )..

Here in New York City, 40mph over the speed limit could get you arrested, on the cop's discretion.. And the fastest speed limit in the city is 55mph.. Which matches most US states.. Do the math..

As long as I have enough passing power to hit at least over a 100, I am more than satisfied..

BTW, Bootmod has a tune to overwrite the top speed restriction, in case you feel the need to total your car..

Bootmod doesn’t support the B58 yet.

(But Mission Performance does)

[makrop]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

I also had a bad experience with a dealer not really knowing about tire / speed limiter options. When I ordered mine, I was told that the 18" M Double-spoke bi-color wheels, style 719M with performance non run-flat tires were not available, if I wanted the bi-color wheels, I had to get the run flat all seasons. I didn't care for the all black 719Ms so I thought I'd just get the all seasons and swap out the tires. What I wasn't told was that the all seasons came with the non staggered 7.5 / 225 all around so I wouldn't have the option of replacing the rear with 245s. Honestly the 130 / 155 is more psychological than anything, BUT the smaller wheels means I'm going to have to get new wheels too ... and I do like the look of the bi color 719M. It's frustrating when you have a dealer that doesn't understand these things and can help you make informed decisions.

Same exact thing happened to me. They also told me that once I swapped on the higher rated tires, they could up the speed limiter. FALSE. So I'm stuck with the 130mph...

[Pray for Mojo]

Mine came with A/S runflats, stuck at 130 until magically BM3 deleted VMAX. Never hit 130 before the flash tune, and haven't since. I guess if you aren't driving like a felon its no issue. I'm amazed someone got a dealer to take a vehicle back based on not being able to drive double the limit.

[MarkDemma]

Agreed that if you aren't ever going to be driving on the autobahn (or track) then the whole 130 / 155 limit is pretty moot other than a psychological reasons.

I rented a 640 for a day around Bavaria and did get it up to 250 (kph). I had a 118d that I drove on a daily basis for a couple of months there past a bit of road that had the "bear claw" but I never felt comfortable driving the 1'er past 200 ... plus it had winter tires on so it wouldn't have been legal anyway.

The only real beef with the dealer was that they gave me bad info on the size of the wheels I'd be getting.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

Agreed that if you aren't ever going to be driving on the autobahn (or track) then the whole 130 / 155 limit is pretty moot other than a psychological reasons.

I rented a 640 for a day around Bavaria and did get it up to 250 (kph). I had a 118d that I drove on a daily basis for a couple of months there past a bit of road that had the "bear claw" but I never felt comfortable driving the 1'er past 200 ... plus it had winter tires on so it wouldn't have been legal anyway.

The only real beef with the dealer was that they gave me bad info on the size of the wheels I'd be getting.

They probably they didn't even know they were giving you wrong info..

Last week I was asking my SA about the M2 Competition, just for small talk, she said "What?" I explained what it is and she just shrug like whatever..

Same reaction with her male co-worker..


They don't care or know as much of the nuances of the car that us enthusiast do, believe it or not..

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by Poochie

They probably they didn't even know they were giving you wrong info..

Last week I was asking my SA about the M2 Competition, just for small talk, she said "What?" I explained what it is and she just shrug like whatever..

Same reaction with her male co-worker..


They don't care or know as much of the nuances of the car that us enthusiast do, believe it or not..

Although I do have to say that the dealer I didn't end up getting my car from had this nerd there they called out when they got "one of those" in the showroom who read through all the tech manuals and whatnot who they would trot out when a customer would ask too many questions.

[ianp622]

The only place you should even think about going 130 is on the Autobahn. Given the danger you are placing yourself and others in I have 0 sympathy for you.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

You have got to figure, a lot of the finer details of each car, the average sales guy might not know. Unless you get an employee that is an enthusiast about that particular car, there are a lot of varying options and trims for each model, and there are lots of them.

I hate to say it, but ultimately the burden is on your to verify some things. They did the right thing and took the car back. But really I don't see the outrage, I have had the car for almost 5 years now, and I have not crossed 130mph yet... You just don't have anywhere to safely do it. I am not going to sit on my high horse and say speeding is bad, I have done 100+, but never to that extreme.

I did it plenty of times when I was living in Germany, even with a mini and I had a 120i Hatchback (which hi did wreck on the autobahn, but it was a 259 car pile up back in 09).

The roads are a lot smoother, and drivers are a lot better. I don't trust our highways here, or the other drivers to know what to do and how to behave. For the most part in Germany, they will know to get out of your way, and not to cut you off when you are going that speed. In the US someone is likely to cut you off causing a nasty wreck. Not to mention the pothole infested freeways and highways that could send you off in a nasty wreck.

Anyways, point being, as others have said, this is mostly a psychological thing, you could have probably negotiated the car down as a result or something, or just wait for a flash tune to remove it. But other than that, I honestly wouldn't sweat it too much unless it was a track car.

But I am also not sure why they didn't give dealers the option to change this, I suppose they would do it too often without proper rated tires or something? I don't know seems like an odd choice.

[aozer]

i thought it was possible to code to 155 before a certain mileage is reached, then it gets locked it

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by aozer

i thought it was possible to code to 155 before a certain mileage is reached, then it gets locked it

Some have said it is 10 miles, others have said you can't ever ... unless you flash the ECU, which will allegedly invalidate the warranty.

[ScottAndrew]

I simply cannot imagine the total DEVASTATION you must have felt when discovering that your back wheels were a bit narrower than the proposed spec.

[snaketh]

Lots of stress over something so innocuous. Little bit of research here could have stopped your 'pain'. Dealers are often full of it, they are selling cars primarily, they aren't all experts. 99% of their client base doesn't know the difference between staggered and square, or even tire makes for that matter.

If you get this stressed over a limiter you shouldn't need to remove, I'd be worried to see how you deal with a non 1st world issue.

Hope you take it easy on the public road, 130+ on US roads for any length of time is idiotic.

[USA-RET]

Yes, I found out after ordering the car w/ the "square" set-up, that my car was limited to 130 MPH. At first I was upset, but upon reflection, I'll likely only drive mine 129MPH, so it was not a huge issue.

The fact that when I ordered my 2017, that was not fully explained to me nor did I see anything or the 2017 configuator that jumped out at me that there was a top speed limit on my car, I went w/ the all seasons or longer tread life and ease of rotation. I found out about the top speed limit here on the forum.

As an aside, the speed Limit can be changed (upped) but it has to be done w/ less than 10 miles on the odo. I found this out through some research, and it makes sense for BMW to allow for this. As most arrive at dealerships w/ less that showing on the odo, tire and wheel swaps can happen should the customer choose and the upper limit adjusted. Again, one of those bits of info not readily available.

[bryan_G01]

when i got my m235xi awd, was told speed limiter was removed to 155.
First track day, on the str8, Dinan stage 3... 135mph... dead.
went home took off dinan, flash tuned it.

I applaud your efforts.