[dradernh]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

Thank you - the differences are interesting.

Including the base measured numbers, I think.

[USA-RET]

Yes, base dyno on .v1 shows 369Hp/415TQ and base .v2 shows 381hp/401TQ - so the dip in torque on the .v2 starts w/ a -14 based on the date the dyno was run.


It would be interesting to see the number of issues being reported w/ the Stage 1 vs. the number of units sold. 10% w/ CEL's 20% with CELs etc.

You cannot get an accurate sense of this by looking at posts to forums. Generally, you hear about issue while those w/o a problem rarely say a word. That is pretty normal w/ all car forums, rattling this or leaking that, gets posted and a reader starts to think all the cars have similar issues.

That being said, if it is shown that the Stage 1 has way too many issues and those cannot be resolved, will Dinan offer some kind of trade-in program for the Stage 1's for the V2 if that one is trouble free?

While the numbers look to be decent for the V2, it is a shame that torque takes a rather big hit compared to the Stage 1. Torque is when you really sense the power of the car rather than HP. However, if the V2 will be trouble free and still leave everyone w/the right hardware to go to Stage 2 when offered, it may be worth taking the torque hit.

I really like my Stage 1, but since my one CEL, I'm nervous that I will get more as I add more miles to the car. Down the road 2-3 years from now), each visit to the dealership to resolve a CEL issue will be out of pocket which really should not be a on-going issue/expense w/ a properly engineered Tuner.

Just wondering if Dinan will offer some kind of buyback/trade-in if the original Stage 1 is found to be faulty.

[WolfGTI]

Also wondering if a Stage 1 owner never had issues / issues are resolved with the harness change - will they still support upgrading to Stage 2 on the original Stage 1 unit?
Hopefully they chime in.

Originally Posted by USA-RET

It would be interesting to see the number of issues being reported w/ the Stage 1 vs. the number of units sold. 10% w/ CEL's 20% with CELs etc.

You cannot get an accurate sense of this by looking at posts to forums. Generally, you hear about issue while those w/o a problem rarely say a word. That is pretty normal w/ all car forums, rattling this or leaking that, gets posted and a reader starts to think all the cars have similar issues.

That being said, if it is shown that the Stage 1 has way too many issues and those cannot be resolved, will Dinan offer some kind of trade-in program for the Stage 1's for the V2 if that one is trouble free?

While the numbers look to be decent for the V2, it is a shame that torque takes a rather bit hit compared to the Stage 1. Torque is when you really sense the power of the car rather than HP. However, if the V2 will be trouble free and still leave everyone w/the right hardware to got to Stage 2 when offered, it may be worth taking the torque hit.

I really like my Stage 1, but since my one CEL, I'm nervous that I will get more as I add more miles to the car. Down the road 2-3 years from now), each visit to the dealership to resolve a CEL issue will be out of pocket which really should not be a on-going issue/expense w/ a properly engineered Tuner.

Just wondering if Dinan will offer some kind of buyback/trade-in if the original Stage 1 is found to be faulty.

[Fasteddy1]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

Dinan_Engineering can someone please explain to us what is going on?

I am a stage 1 owner who is/was waiting on stage 2.

Why has stage 1 been pulled from the market?
What is the purpose of the v2?
Why have the number of connections been reduced from 4 to 2? Is this because of all the failures on stage 1? If so, as a stage 1 owner, should I be concerned?

Your responses would be greatly appreciated.

I would like these questions answered as well. If there is 44 pdft of less torque, is the V1 still safe?

After I had the Dinan harness and computer fully replaced it seems a little down on power compared to before it went bad. I wonder if the last programming they sent out was the V2?

Are they changing it to less sensors because of the harness issues?

Is there less power because they are using fewer sensors?

Lots of questions...

Pat

[TakoMako]

I just wish we can have the option to upgrade to it.

[tennisfreak]

Called Dinan_Engineering and no answer.

Starting to get concerned.

I sent an email to support.

[TakoMako]

Maybe they find out some stability issue after replacing my engine?

[tennisfreak]

No answer to threads here, no answer to emails directly, no answering of the phone.

What is going on Dinan_Engineering ????

[USA-RET]

Could be they are getting the "ducks" in order before answering any questions.

[USA-RET]

I just ordered the CF intake through my BMW dealer. Should be here by next Wed (Nov 21). Told them to hold until Dec when my annual svc is done and will get it installed at the same.

Took Dinan forever to pickup their phone (parts guy wanted to make sure it wasn't on BO). I mentioned to the parts guy at BMW that there is much talk about the Stage 1 V2, vs. the original and questions about why, and how come things were changed, etc.

He mentioned that Dinan has done changes like this in the past. Dunno. Seems strange to me to discontinue the Stage 1 and intro a v2.

Additionally, he said they had some BMW reps visiting the dealership recently and that BMW is going to up the power on their cars to near what you get w/ a Dinan (and other modules). He also mentioned that a number of the "BIG" BMW dealerships are not going to be carrying Dinan in the future because of this change.

This is all I was told, true? false?, I have no clue. But it it not inconceivable that there is plenty of "wiggle room" for BMW to make their cars much more powerful. If they do decide to tune near to or equal to an aftermarket module, it would make sense for dealerships to opt out of Dinan.

I'm operating on current knowledge, The Stage 1 Dinan tune (done), CF intake (coming) and the upcoming Stage 2 (when available). If BMW decides to make changes, those changes will not affect my 2017, so I'm staying w/ the Dinan game plan. Next time, that choice may change, but I am so happy w/ my M240i (and the low miles I drive), I expect to keep it for many years, unless I run into some serious issues w/ it.

[tennisfreak]

I am in a very similar boat to you USA-RET

I was just hoping to get some first hand information straight from Dinan.

[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

I am in a very similar boat to you USA-RET

I was just hoping to get some first hand information straight from Dinan.

I'm wondering that if Dinan found out after marketing the Stage 1, that there were too many issues w/ CEL's that could not be corrected without a re-design, how they tell that the current owners w/o creating some bad blood or offering some buy-back/trade-in and the financial consequences to them in so doing.

Speculating here, but otherwise, why a .V2 w/ less torque and fewer connections?

[marcthedark]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

Additionally, he said they had some BMW reps visiting the dealership recently and that BMW is going to up the power on their cars to near what you get w/ a Dinan (and other modules).

Yes they are upping the B58 output at least for new models (the Z4 has 382hp in US trim). My guess is that the particulate filter in Europe (and other emissions related issues) create the need to find some more hp to make up for the loss > and as the US doesn't need the restrictions we can have more HP than Europe (for the first time?)

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

Additionally, he said they had some BMW reps visiting the dealership recently and that BMW is going to up the power on their cars to near what you get w/ a Dinan (and other modules). He also mentioned that a number of the "BIG" BMW dealerships are not going to be carrying Dinan in the future because of this change.

This is all I was told, true? false?, I have no clue. But it it not inconceivable that there is plenty of "wiggle room" for BMW to make their cars much more powerful. If they do decide to tune near to or equal to an aftermarket module, it would make sense for dealerships to opt out of Dinan.

Somewhat confused about these statements. Like folks have mentioned, BMW have upped the HP in the B58 engine for new models such as the Z4 and new 3 series ... but the changes to the B58TU1 aren't just in the programming there are hardware changes as well ( https://www.autoevolution.com/news/b...ps-129912.html )

So it's unclear to me why there wouldn't still be a market for folks wanting to modify the previous generation of B58 for more power ... or for that matter new mods that could eek out even more power from the B58TU1. Are we saying that when you bring your M240i to the dealer for a Dinan mod they will try to sell you a Z4 or M340i instead? (Unless you are in CA, where Dinan apparently won't be offering ANY product for the foreseeable future because they have yet to submit the V2 for approval.)

Would seem to me more a matter of there being too many issues with reliability of the current crop of Dinan kit, Dinan not being as good about honoring warranty as it had been in the past or both.

[tennisfreak]

Update:

Just got off the phone with Dinan sales team and have an explanation.

Yes the Stage 1 has been discontinued and the V2 is replacing it.
This was done because of reliability issues with the harness and unit itself and not because if any issues with reliability to the cars engine or drivetrain.

Yes V2 makes less horsepower and torque but, as explained by the rep, the torque curve was moved down to make the car feel more responsive/quicker.

For those with a previous Stage 1:
You do not need to worry about upgrading or changing to a V2.
If you had problems in the past and your harness was replaced you should not experience any further problems, and furthermore you are still on a Stage 1.
Going forward if you experience issues on a Stage 1 you will most likely be swapped out with a V2.

When a Stage 2 is released:
Regardless of what version you have (Stage 1 or V2) you will only pay an upgrade/price difference to get the stage 2.

[USA-RET]

I was ruminating about the Dinan Stage 1 and the .v2. Lets suppose that there are some issues w/ the Stage 1 programing that can't be resolved easily. So Dinan releases a .v2 which eliminates the issues.

Now, people w/ the Stage 1 are asking questions about the change and Dinan has not responded (yet).

Looking at this from Dinan's standpoint. Marketing a .v2 eliminates any more issues with new sales (of a Stage 1). Offering a buy back would not make good financial sense, however, if Stage 2 turns out to be a flash tune (no hardware to tuner build or replace), Dinan could offer a special discount to original Stage 1 owners if they upgrade to a Stage 2 flash tune.

Since we are only talking a software upgrade to the car, manufacture and parts cost to Dinan would be almost nil. Lets say 1/2 off the Stage 2 flash (to original Stage 1 owners) would go a long way to ease any problems/issues/bad blood experienced by the early adopters of the original Stage 1 tune.

From Dinan's standpoint, they could actually make some extra revenue by doing this (offering a 50% off incentive for the flash tune portion to all original Stage 1 guys to go to a full Stage 2 build).

Just thinking about how I (if I were Dinan) would handle a lingering issue was a piggy-back tuner.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

Update:

Just got off the phone with Dinan sales team and have an explanation.

Yes the Stage 1 has been discontinued and the V2 is replacing it.

So if they aren't selling the Stage 1 anymore then if you live in CA you are SOL if you wanted a Dinan tune.

From their email to me they said

The V2 is not CA legal because we have not submitted it to CARB yet. The intent is to submit it shortly but even then it will be 18-24 months before anything is approved given then current timeline of CARB approvals.

So basically if you are in CA you won't be able to get a Dinan tune for your B58 for the next two years.

I suppose if I wanted a Dinan tune I should grab up a Stage 1 now from someone who has it in stock if I want something that allegedly will have a decent warranty attached to it ... or are they not selling any anywhere anymore with the warranty?

Also, is this a normal timeline for Dinan getting stuff in for approval in the past? Seems odd that they have released a product to market but have yet to submit it for approval. Wouldn't a company have sent in a prototype for approval well in advance of offering it to market? Two years is a pretty long time to wait.

[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

Also, is this a normal timeline for Dinan getting stuff in for approval in the past? Seems odd that they have released a product to market but have yet to submit it for approval. Wouldn't a company have sent in a prototype for approval well in advance of offering it to market? Two years is a pretty long time to wait.

Unless this was a rush to replace the current Stage 1 and and get them pulled from the retail market.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

Unless this was a rush to replace the current Stage 1 and and get them pulled from the retail market.

Yes that was something I was thinking / worried about. I imagine the major cost outlay for them with each unit sold isn't the hardware itself but rather the R&D behind it and covering the warranty work. If the Stage 1 was causing too many issues they had to pay to fix then I can see them wanting them pulled ASAP.

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

...When a Stage 2 is released:
Regardless of what version you have (Stage 1 or V2) you will only pay an upgrade/price difference to get the stage 2.

Thanks for posting their response. I sent them an email through their site, but haven't gotten a response yet.
One of the questions I asked, but wasn't answered by your post is:
"Will it be possible to flash the stage 2 software onto the v1 units, or will an "upgrade" to a v2 unit be required?"
Did they address that question in their response to you?

[RotorOver]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

I was ruminating about the Dinan Stage 1 and the .v2. Lets suppose that there are some issues w/ the Stage 1 programing that can't be resolved easily. So Dinan releases a .v2 which eliminates the issues.

Now, people w/ the Stage 1 are asking questions about the change and Dinan has not responded (yet).

Looking at this from Dinan's standpoint. Marketing a .v2 eliminates any more issues with new sales (of a Stage 1). Offering a buy back would not make good financial sense, however, if Stage 2 turns out to be a flash tune (no hardware to tuner build or replace), Dinan could offer a special discount to original Stage 1 owners if they upgrade to a Stage 2 flash tune.

Since we are only talking a software upgrade to the car, manufacture and parts cost to Dinan would be almost nil. Lets say 1/2 off the Stage 2 flash (to original Stage 1 owners) would go a long way to ease any problems/issues/bad blood experienced by the early adopters of the original Stage 1 tune.

From Dinan's standpoint, they could actually make some extra revenue by doing this (offering a 50% off incentive for the flash tune portion to all original Stage 1 guys to go to a full Stage 2 build).

Just thinking about how I (if I were Dinan) would handle a lingering issue was a piggy-back tuner.

From what I've learned previous to the v2, there was an internal debate at Dinan as to what form a stage 2 would come in (piggyback or flash tune). But if history tells us anything, I think in either case you would still only pay the difference between stage 1 and 2 anyway, but that is pure speculation.

[marcthedark]

And somehow I can't see how a "stage 2" is needed for a CAI .... adding a DP or so is different but "more air" should be easy for the ECU to adapt to (as the CAI works with the stock ECU).
Are there really differences adjusting the piggyback to the CAI (did someone do JB4 + CAI Dyno and then fiddled with it and Dyno'd again) or is this a just a clever marketing scheme?