[ehosca]

I had outfitted my M240i with with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires in a staggered layout :

225/40 ZR 18 front 245/35 ZR 18XL rear

In hindsight and with about 10k miles of driving later I'm beginning to think that particular setup is perhaps suboptimal for NYC/LI driving in the snow and rain. Specifically, last year I had an incident where I had to drive back from the city during a snowstorm that had just begun to fall and there was virtually no useful traction from the tires. I barely made it home after disabling traction control and a few stressful close call moments.

I noticed similar traction issue (nowhere nearly as bad as driving in snow) during a recent rain storm which caught me by surprise with the downpour.

It would be nice to be able to drive my M240i in moderately inclement weather with occasional light to medium rain/snow

I welcome any suggestions on how to go about addressing this issue.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ehosca

I had outfitted my M240i with with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires in a staggered layout :

225/40 ZR 18 front 245/35 ZR 18XL rear

In hindsight and with about 10k miles of driving later I'm beginning to think that particular setup is perhaps suboptimal for NYC/LI driving in the snow and rain. Specifically, last year I had an incident where I had to drive back from the city during a snowstorm that had just begun to fall and there was virtually no useful traction from the tires. I barely made it home after disabling traction control and a few stressful close call moments.

I noticed similar traction issue (nowhere nearly as bad as driving in snow) during a recent rain storm which caught me by surprise with the downpour.

It would be nice to be able to drive my M240i in moderately inclement weather with occasional light to medium rain/snow

I welcome any suggestions on how to go about addressing this issue.

Ultra High Performance All Season tires tend to be the solution. This is what Tire Rack has in the category that fit your wheels and car: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...SortCode=53950. The Michelins and Continentals seem to be popular on this board.

I bought a set of Michelin Ultra High Performance All Season tires for late-October to early-April duty and run Pilot Sport 4S during the warmer months. I don't drive when there's snow on the ground, though, so someone else will have to weigh-in on how well the UHPAS tires work when the white stuff is on the ground. I got them because they're much better than summer tires when the temps drop below around the mid-40s.

[designatedposter]

you could get a second set dedicated to winter driving for best performance in cold temps and snow.

or if you want to stick with 1 set of tires, then you can get all season tires, but these will be just okay snow performance. if you like michelin, they offer the as4 tire. continental has the dws 06. both of these are considered high performance all season tires.

wow, almost same exact answer as above

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

you could get a second set dedicated to winter driving for best performance in cold temps and snow.

or if you want to stick with 1 set of tires, then you can get all season tires, but these will be just okay snow performance. if you like michelin, they offer the as4 tire. continental has the dws 06. both of these are considered high performance all season tires.

wow, almost same exact answer as above

What's the old saw...something like "Brilliant minds think alike"?

[ehosca]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Ultra High Performance All Season tires tend to be the solution. This is what Tire Rack has in the category that fit your wheels and car: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...SortCode=53950. The Michelins and Continentals seem to be popular on this board.

I bought a set of Michelin Ultra High Performance All Season tires for late-October to early-April duty and run Pilot Sport 4S during the warmer months. I don't drive when there's snow on the ground, though, so someone else will have to weigh-in on how well the UHPAS tires work when the white stuff is on the ground. I got them because they're much better than summer tires when the temps drop below around the mid-40s.

thank you for the reply,

so basically it comes down to picking one of these?

[designatedposter]

My personal experience is with the as3+ (predecessor to the as4) and now dws06. As3+ better turning response and stiffer sidewall. Not good in snow (but manageable). Dws is softer sidewall and turn response shows. Much better snow performance. Better wear.

Summary.. As3+ was sportier. Dws is more all season. If as4 is better in snow than as3+, I'd consider getting that as my next set.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ehosca

thank you for the reply,

so basically it comes down to picking one of these?

For our tire size combination, and when buying from Tire Rack, those tend to be what's popular with 2addicts forum members.

There may be other tire brands out there that Tire Rack doesn't carry that manufacture UHPAS and HPAS (High Performance All Season) tires in our size combination.

The Rack doesn't show any HPAS tires in the staggered sizes that go on our cars. That seems odd, but it may be an availability issue due to the pandemic. Someone else here mentioned recently that there were tire availability issues and people looking for non-summer sets would be wise to buy them as soon as possible.

FWIW, the people at Tire Rack are extremely knowledgeable about the products they carry and are always happy to answer questions.

[ehosca]

Originally Posted by dradernh

For our tire size combination, and when buying from Tire Rack, those tend to be what's popular with 2addicts forum members.

There may be other tire brands out there that Tire Rack doesn't carry that manufacture UHPAS and HPAS (High Performance All Season) tires in our size combination.

The Rack doesn't show any HPAS tires in the staggered sizes that go on our cars. That seems odd, but it may be an availability issue due to the pandemic. Someone else here mentioned recently that there were tire availability issues and people looking for non-summer sets would be wise to buy them as soon as possible.

FWIW, the people at Tire Rack are extremely knowledgeable about the products they carry and are always happy to answer questions.

I cross checked with Consumer Reports and this is what they recommend for the UHPAS and HPAS categories (as of Sept 2021)

[freakystyly]

I'm a bit surprised summer tires aren't illegal in the winter (where applicable of course). They're a proper hazard.

I did get caught up at the first snow once and learned my lesson to get the winters on sooner.

Stay safe out there!

[overcoil]

would the op's disappointed performance in the rain be from reduced tread depth wear as opposed to summer / all-season tread ?

[ehosca]

I'd genuinely doubt it. It was the first thing I checked.

The Michelins that are on it just broke 10k miles and still grip like a gorilla in dry/warm weather.

The service advisor I spoke to at the dealership also said nice things about the Continentals so I'm leaning towards getting a set of DWS06+

I really would prefer a dedicated snow/winter tire but I don't have the garage space to store the extra set.

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

would the op's disappointed performance in the rain be from reduced tread depth wear as opposed to summer / all-season tread ?

[VAcurler]

If you go with the DWS06 keep an eye out for the wear bars on them. You'll see a separate D W and S at start. Once the S wears away you have a 3 season tire and they are no longer suitable for light snow. So your tire will have plenty of tread left but if you are buying them for use in snow YMMV after that. I had the original DWS on my e90 and they were crap in 3 inches of snow once the S went away to the point that the next day I ordered proper snow tires. My e90 has the new Michelin AS4 for the summer and X-Ice snow for the winter and I'll swap them once we get the first real snow. I'm looking into getting Michelin AS4 on a separate set of wheels for the winter on my F23 and keeping the summers.

[delvec03]

I used to be an A/S3+ fan, but they'd only last me 20-25k miles. I'm now on Goodyear exhilarates and they're lasting much longer. maybe close to double. they're not as grippy, and maybe a tad louder. much more cost effective imo.

[aerobod]

Normally the minimum tread depth markers for snow use are at 4.5mm (6/32"). One issue with "high performance" all-season tyres that are used in snow is that the tread depth new is typically 8mm (10/32), but performance winter tyres are typically 9mm (11/32").

This means that a proper winter tyre has about 25% more tread wear possible to get to the minimum tread depth usable in snow (bearing in mind that the grip is better in winter conditions over the usable range anyway). Typically it is cheaper running summer tyres which can be safely be worn down to 3mm (4/32") when used in the wet or 1.5mm (2/32") in dry conditions, in combination with a proper winter set that can only be worn down to 4.5mm. If you are lucky, one set of all-seasons could be worn to 4.5mm by the end of the winter, then further worn down before replacement before the next winter, but timing is everything to avoid tyres with less than 4.5mm for winter use.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Normally the minimum tread depth markers for snow use are at 4.5mm (6/32"). One issue with "high performance" all-season tyres that are used in snow is that the tread depth new is typically 8mm (10/32), but performance winter tyres are typically 9mm (11/32").

This means that a proper winter tyre has about 25% more tread wear possible to get to the minimum tread depth usable in snow (bearing in mind that the grip is better in winter conditions over the usable range anyway). Typically it is cheaper running summer tyres which can be safely be worn down to 3mm (4/32") when used in the wet or 1.5mm (2/32") in dry conditions, in combination with a proper winter set that can only be worn down to 4.5mm. If you are lucky, one set of all-seasons could be worn to 4.5mm by the end of the winter, then further worn down before replacement before the next winter, but timing is everything to avoid tyres with less than 4.5mm for winter use.

Excellent summary - thank you!

I've found that to optimize day-to-day tire performance it's generally easiest, if not cheapest, to change tires out at 6/32nds. As a matter of course, I do that with both winter and all-season tires.

For non-winter tires, that regime allows for greater control when it's especially wet out. I'm a tire nut and can make almost anything work, but for the wife I want deep tread in the event she's out during a thunderstorm and there's deeper than ordinary water on the surface. Just as brakes and seat belts are, tires are a principal safety device.

[msej449]

@dradernh Yes, this is in line with typical summer performance tire wear profiles such as below, where the stopping distance degrades in a non-linear fashion i.e. there's a tread depth - way before the legal minimum - where the stopping performance starts to get much worse:



So I do the same as you and replace my summers somewhere between the 4mm and 3mm mark. In the above example, at 2.5mm (3/32") on hot tarmac, compared to 4mm (5/32") the car took an extra 12 feet to stop (if I recall the report, this was only at 50mph). A lot of people think that you can wear summers down to their legal minimum and because conditions are warm and dry, it doesn't matter, but it does - especially for performance tyres where the manufacturer often assumes that if the owner can afford the car in the first place, they're going to replace the tires well before they legally have to. Which is fine, until the model gets older and subsequent owners may well be working on a tight budget.

As mentioned, winters also degrade significantly in terms of snow traction below 4mm as well. I have separate winter wheels and tyres but have the luxury of having the storage space to accommodate them. For me, with a high-performance RWD car, the compromise of all-seasons in summer is too great to make it worth the benefit of not having to swap twice a year. But I appreciate that for many people, storage is not an option and/or they have other vehicles for challenging winter conditions and haulage tasks. But I actually get my winters mainly because they have much higher resistance to hydroplaning than summers/all-seasons, as we get a lot of winter rainfall with standing water on the coast where I live.