[craigdeguz]

Hi everyone,

Still a bit shocked and emotional but had a slight ticking sound and some bucking and dropped the car off the dealership (where I purchased the car). Just got news today that they are recommending replacing the engine due to a bearing issue ($25k). The car is not under warranty and obviously insurance doesn't cover mechanical issues.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can do? This is pretty insane, the car only has 27k miles on it. How can a car be completely totaled after 27k miles??? I might lose a large amount of money for "randomness"

[spidy512]

Heya,

First off, super sorry to hear this. I too am a bit surprised to hear about the bad motor with only 27k miles. BUT, as you said, random things can happen.

A few questions.
Are you the original owner?
If not, was it a BMW dealer you bought it from?
Did they expound on what exactly the "bearing" issue is?
Is the car tuned? Or any aftermarket mods?
How about the last oil change? Did you do it or someone else?

Also, $25k is right for a new motor, but do you absolutely need a new motor? Did the bearing issue really toast the entire thing? Or is that price for just a rebuild?

Sorry for all the questions. The more info you can provide the more this group can help. This is a very knowledgeable group given lots of info....

Good luck! And keep us posted...

josh

PS Have you checked with your insurance? Some folks insurance may cover something like this. At least total it out....

[craigdeguz]

I am not the original owner, but I purchased this car CPO from the same dealership with 14,700 miles, so I've only put on about 13k miles.

They just said something is wrong with the bearings and there is some metal fragments in the oil. Basically if I want to figure out how this happened, they would have to break down the engine which could cost a good amount. Also said something like this to fix is basically impossible.

The car is not tuned and nothing aftermarket. The last oil change was done by the same dealer, I have never touched anything in this car. The next oil change was going to be done at the same time they looked at it and it was due this month.

[golf4501]

I thought the CPO warranty was 5 years from the cars original in-service date. I would think you would have to be close to that date since it is a 2016. If you are over, perhaps BMW will do a good faith given the low miles. Will your dealer work with you at all on this?

[craigdeguz]

My warranty expired March 2021. I called BMW corporate and they are going to look into it. The dealership person was an asshole, there wasn't even a consideration of helping me with anything.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by craigdeguz

Also said something like this to fix is basically impossible.

Disclaimer: My knowledge of damaged engines relates to aircraft, so I'm posting this more to learn how auto engines are different than to give expert advice.

Was the oil filter checked? If it was not substantially plugged, then none of the metal particles should have got past it. (Usually there is a pressure relief valve that bypasses the filter when it plugs.) That can be confirmed by looking at the easiest to access bearing - possibly by pulling a camshaft. If it's clean, only the oil passages from the crankcase to the filter will be contaminated and need to be flushed and the oil pump might be damaged. The bearing that failed needs to be found and replaced if it's a ball bearing. If it's a plain bearing the device it supports needs to be checked for damage, ground undersize if damaged and a thicker bearing installed if available. If not the device needs to be replaced. Even if, for example, the crankshaft is not repairable this doesn't sound like 25k to me.

Few people would pay BMW shop rates to have an engine disassembled and repaired, so I imagine the dealership has little incentive to investigate far enough to provide useful advice.

[golf4501]

That's unfortunate your dealer is not working with you. They must not value customers long term.

My 335 was purchased CPO with 7k on it (dealer demo). It was burning oil at an excessive rate from the get go (no leaks/no blue smoke though). Finally got to the point where it was going thru a quart every 750 miles or so. Dealer had been watching it and when it got to that level, they called in a corporate engineer. They found a casting issue with my block (had a small burr in it) so I got a new engine. If I recall right that bill was around 18k and they had my car for like 3 weeks, as it sat there once the issue was identified.

Hope it works out for you!

[pikcachu]

Did they ever replace the Oil filter housing gasket ?

if that is not done right and purged the oil before starting the car it will eventually seize the engine

[craigdeguz]

So there is a possibility that in my last service at the same dealership, they could have made a mistake? Even if that happened, I don’t think I have any way to prove it.

I have no way of knowing if they didn’t replace the gasket. I’m also going to assume they are potentially removing any evidence that their prior service created this issue.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by craigdeguz

So there is a possibility that in my last service at the same dealership, they could have made a mistake? Even if that happened, I don’t think I have any way to prove it.

I have no way of knowing if they didn’t replace the gasket. I’m also going to assume they are potentially removing any evidence that their prior service created this issue.

the OFHG is not something they do on an oil change... it's something specific that takes about 3hs or so and about $900....

You can ask for the service history and it would show up there if they did it...

They don't really care to remove evidence.... for them is the same if BMW NA pays for it or you pay for it...so no incentive to delete anything

[Shovelman]

As Albert said, repair should be possible and less expensive than a new engine.

When they pull your old engine it will not be tossed in the dumpster. It should have high value.

Definitely get an opinion from an independent and consider finding another dealer.

[craigdeguz]

Originally Posted by Shovelman

As Albert said, repair should be possible and less expensive than a new engine.

When they pull your old engine it will not be tossed in the dumpster. It should have high value.

Definitely get an opinion from an independent and consider finding another dealer.

I guess the question is should I be driving the car around to an other mechanic or dealership? Or do I have to tow it to each place?

[TAZ007]

I would suggest looking at a local INDY shop. A rebuild there would be cheaper and a second opinion would not hurt at all.

[pikcachu]

Maybe sell it on Carvana and buy an M3.... those come with bearing issues from factory

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1865201

[XutvJet]

A rebuild will be tough because the rod bearing has spun. That means metal has been pumped all through oiling system, block, head, oil pump, turbo, etc. To get all that metal removed is nearly impossible and if you rebuild, there's a big risk that residual metal in the block could get into the rod bearing and spin it once again. That's why motors that have spun rod bearings typically have a short block and oil pump replacement, tank cleaning of the head, and oil cycling of the turbo at the least.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

A rebuild will be tough because the rod bearing has spun. That means metal has been pumped all through oiling system, block, head, oil pump, turbo, etc.

What allows you to be certain that metal particles got past the oil filter?

[craigdeguz]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

A rebuild will be tough because the rod bearing has spun. That means metal has been pumped all through oiling system, block, head, oil pump, turbo, etc. To get all that metal removed is nearly impossible and if you rebuild, there's a big risk that residual metal in the block could get into the rod bearing and spin it once again. That's why motors that have spun rod bearings typically have a short block and oil pump replacement, tank cleaning of the head, and oil cycling of the turbo at the least.

If this is the case, what do I do? is it worth it talking to independent mechanics or other BMW dealerships? Do I just have to hope that BMW Corporate will help some how?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by craigdeguz

If this is the case, what do I do? is it worth it talking to independent mechanics or other BMW dealerships? Do I just have to hope that BMW Corporate will help some how?

I'd wait and see what BMW Corporate says. If they aren't willing to help, then going to a reputable indy BMW shop and having them source you a used motor is probably the best and cheapest solution. Used M235 N55s will set you back $7K-9K and install another $2K-$3k. If BMW offers to help, my guess is they'd still make you be on the hook for a 1/3 to 1/2 of the quoted $25K price. Either way, you're likely going to be stuck with a $5K to $13K repair bill.

The prices BMW charges for their short blocks is downright bonkers. Why a N55 short block is $14-16K is quite laughable and makes no sense. It's not that special in terms of design, materials used, etc.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by albertw

What allows you to be certain that metal particles got past the oil filter?

There are lots of oiling channels in the block and crank that metal can get stuck in prior to getting back to the filter. If you don't get it all out, it could find it's way to the bearing after a rebuild. The clearance on the bearing is real tight.

Also, shops rarely these days rebuild motors after a rod bearing has been spun. It's almost always cheaper to replace the short block or replace with a used motor.

For most cars, a new short block from the dealer is $2K-$8K. BMW charges ~$14K-16K for an N55 short block. BMW acts as if it's motors and heads are made from Unobtainium.

If the bearing hadn't spun, replacing the rod bearings is "only" a ~$3K repair on an N55.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

There are lots of oiling channels in the block and crank that metal can get stuck in prior to getting back to the filter. If you don't get it all out, it could find it's way to the bearing after a rebuild.

Also, shops rarely these days rebuild motors after a rod bearing has been spun. It's almost always cheaper to replace the short block or replace with a used motor.

I'm just trying to understand this. If the oil filter is not damaged or plugged, any oil reaching a bearing direct from the oil gallery will be clean. I appreciate that some bearings receive oil from other bearings. For example, the wrist pin bearing gets its oil from the big end bearing, so if the big end bearing fails the passage up the connecting rod and the wrist pin bearing will be contaminated. That's a single item that needs to be cleaned carefully.

I still can't see how this contaminates other bearings. I can see that oil coming off the failing bearing will be contaminated and some of the metal might lodge somewhere before reaching the oil sump. Cleaning of the entire area might miss some of those particles, but after the repair they still have to pass through the oil filter to get to a bearing.

You seem to be saying that there are many bearings that not lubricated under pressure directly from the oil gallery or from another bearing, but are lubricated by oil flung off into the crankcase after spraying out of a bearing - ie, by splash. Is that what you mean?

I can see that if a new block can be purchased for a few thousand it's not worth doing the repair. But that's not the case for BMWs.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by albertw

I'm just trying to understand this. If the oil filter is not damaged or plugged, any oil reaching a bearing direct from the oil gallery will be clean. I appreciate that some bearings receive oil from other bearings. For example, the wrist pin bearing gets its oil from the big end bearing, so if the big end bearing fails the passage up the connecting rod and the wrist pin bearing will be contaminated. That's a single item that needs to be cleaned carefully.

I still can't see how this contaminates other bearings. I can see that oil coming off the failing bearing will be contaminated and some of the metal might lodge somewhere before reaching the oil sump. Cleaning of the entire area might miss some of those particles, but after the repair they still have to pass through the oil filter to get to a bearing.

You seem to be saying that there are many bearings that not lubricated under pressure directly from the oil gallery or from another bearing, but are lubricated by oil flung off into the crankcase after spraying out of a bearing - ie, by splash. Is that what you mean?

I can see that if a new block can be purchased for a few thousand it's not worth doing the repair. But that's not the case for BMWs.

You need to fully disassemble the head and block. You then need to clean all oil passages, most importantly, the crank oil passages which can be difficult. The turbo should be pulled a part and the bearings and seals replaced. The oil pump needs to be replaced. The VANOs systems closely inspected (likely replaced). You then need to inspect all bearing and rotating surfaces in the block and head. The crank and rod area where the bearing spun may need to be machined or replaced. The cost of all this cleaning, inspection, machining, and parts replacement (nuts, bolts, bearings, seals, gaskets, and oil pump) would be extremely pricey. Plus, the number of BMW shops capable of this in the US you can count on with one hand.

[albertw]

You keep repeating your position in greater detail without addressing my question. If the oil filter is undamaged and not plugged, how does the metal get past it and into the rest of the engine?

Since you refuse to answer that question, I suspect you are just repeating stuff you've heard and don't understand.