[matt@bavsound]

I think what BMW is trying to do here is to fix the fact that in these cars (and really nearly every car in the world besides a BMW Isetta and a McLaren F1), you're not sitting anywhere near the sweet spot of the speakers, so your imaging is always going to be terrible out of the box.

In home audio systems, you have the option of being directly between the speakers (in the sweet spot), so a center channel is definitely not good for music. There was a time in the car audio industry where adding center channels was a thing in an attempt to "correct" the car's environment, but it never works well without processing. Seems like BMW simply did a bad job here of setting up the amp and head unit to send proper signals to the center channel speaker.

So for what it's worth - any good audio system should make it seem like the vocals (given that a track is recorded well) are coming from an imaginary point midway between the speakers (center of the vehicle in a car environment), and somewhat distant from you. In a car, at least the top of the dash, if not past the windshield (sounds weird, but it's totally possible in a properly set up system). The rest of the instruments should be spread across the "soundstage" so that if you close your eyes and forget where you are, it's totally believable that you're hearing the song as performed, instead of it being recorded and reproduced...

I'll have to try this out in one of our mules and see how I feel about BMW's attempts!

[bmw_fascinated]

less is more
Easy mod and great improvement

[idc]

Sharing my thoughts, not intending to start a debate. Tried the disconnect, easy to do, totally hated it after one day of driving. Connected it back and feel ok. I never had the ear to distinguish great audio equipment, very happy with the standard center speaker

[Audioholics]

Hey Guys, I see a lot of discussion here about how "center channels aren't usually a good idea" especially for music. Science is not on the side of that argument and I wanted to point out why:
http://www.audioholics.com/room-acou...steners-prefer

That said, I also own an M235i with the H/K system and it's pretty subpar. I don't like the fact that it doesn't have Harman's Logic 7 processing and instead just sums L+R to the center with no gain adjustment. Very Lame!

I will try the center delete too but I'm ultimately working on an aftermarket solution with DSP control with JL Audio to revamp this system. Hopefully it's feasible else I may just spend more time listening to the wonderful sounds of the N55 engine

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Audioholics

Hey Guys, I see a lot of discussion here about how "center channels aren't usually a good idea" especially for music. Science is not on the side of that argument and I wanted to point out why:
http://www.audioholics.com/room-acou...steners-prefer

That's a very technical but ultimately telling piece on several fronts:
- Omnidirectional sound is fundamentally better. This principle is why I laugh at everyone who claim that rear speakers in a car are overkill.
- The 2K dropoff effect. This is made worse with the kind of OEM DSP that exists in our cars' system, which is scooped at and around this frequency. It's no wonder talk radio is barely intelligible at highway speeds.
- Center channel speakers only work properly if they have a specific channel of source material dedicated to them. This is impossible in our cars.
And the big one:
- There is no such thing as the "perfect listening environment". There's also no such thing as the perfect system to reproduce all music perfectly because the source recording varies in quality and tonal emphases as much as end systems do in reproducing those recordings. You can't shoot a 59 every time you play golf, ya know ... and, frankly, in a car, you're gonna shoot above par most of the time because it's about as imperfect a platform as a listening space gets.

[Audioholics]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

That's a very technical but ultimately telling piece on several fronts:
- Omnidirectional sound is fundamentally better. This principle is why I laugh at everyone who claim that rear speakers in a car are overkill.
- The 2K dropoff effect. This is made worse with the kind of OEM DSP that exists in our cars' system, which is scooped at and around this frequency. It's no wonder talk radio is barely intelligible at highway speeds.
- Center channel speakers only work properly if they have a specific channel of source material dedicated to them. This is impossible in our cars.
And the big one:
- There is no such thing as the "perfect listening environment". There's also no such thing as the perfect system to reproduce all music perfectly because the source recording varies in quality and tonal emphases as much as end systems do in reproducing those recordings. You can't shoot a 59 every time you play golf, ya know ... and, frankly, in a car, you're gonna shoot above par most of the time because it's about as imperfect a platform as a listening space gets.

Thanks for the great discussion. Check out the other pages of that article as I think you will appreciate them.

Sadly my 07 Acura TLS was the only OEM system that I was aware of that did true discrete 5.1 audio. I miss listening to my Steely Dan and Porcupine Tree DVD-As on that system. Even though it wasn't the greatest, at least it was discrete 5.1.

[BEM-S4]

At the end of the day it's a car and FAR from an ideal listening environment. Assuming you do nothing else to the system - disconnecting the center and shifting the balance to the right maybe 2-3 notches to compensate that as the driver you're sitting much closer to the left should yield a substantial improvement. Not so much for passenger but screw em.

[Audioholics]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

At the end of the day it's a car and FAR from an ideal listening environment. Assuming you do nothing else to the system - disconnecting the center and shifting the balance to the right maybe 2-3 notches to compensate that as the driver you're sitting much closer to the left should yield a substantial improvement. Not so much for passenger but screw em.

I will try that. What really bothers me about the system is how thin it sounds at low volume. They should have implemented an active loudness contour or something. My Lexus IS350F base system is far superior to the HK system of the M235i and that's not saying much

[P2]

After some experimenting, I have reconnected the center speaker. For music (XRT in Chicago for me) there was a little bit better separation with it disconnected in my view. But I listen to NPR half the time and had a difficult time understanding what they were saying.
I'm thinking about another upgrade to up the music quality but not sure what yet.

[Lew Carrum]

Its hard to believe that BMW would pay experts to design the sound systems and then fit a centre speaker for music. Stereo recording and broadcast has been with us for 50 years. Now if the centre speaker was utilised solely for nav instructions or traffic announcements ( with muting of music) then I can see its worth.

[mrfattbill]

I had my center speaker unhooked but ended up hooking it back up, with it unhooked on the highway with the windows down the audio is barely audible.

Bill

[Cumberlandjames]

OK, I buy the separation argument but as a convertible owner, how about the sound with the top down. II have the standard system but find it very poor. Sound from the rear even with the top up is weak and I assumed the center speaker was there to allow you to hear he radio while cruising topless.

[mdputnam]

Originally Posted by Cumberlandjames

I assumed the center speaker was there to allow you to hear he radio while cruising topless.

Yes, the sound is the first thing you notice when a BMW passes you topless.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by mdputnam

Yes, the sound is the first thing you notice when a BMW passes you topless.

Pray tell: In which BMW plant was that topless beauty built? I ask 'cause she's, well, BUILT ...

[mdputnam]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Pray tell: In which BMW plant was that topless beauty built? I ask 'cause she's, well, BUILT ...

Just good German engineering.

[snaketh]

Can you not post tits in threads or at least add a nsfw tag? I occasionally browse 2addicts on a work network and while I enjoy looking at tits I don't want to deal with HR.

[JDogSwims]

I just completed the advice given about how to remove the center speaker from my M240i and I am now a really happy camper. Awesome advice. The change in sound quality is truly amazing. I know HK and BMW wanted to provide surround sound so they included a center speaker, but that is a really big mistake for listeners of music. What driver listens to movies?! Anyway, thanks to everyone who made me so happy.

[bensanford]

Found the needed trim removal tools and finally removed the speaker cover with difficulty. Had to search for the proper star drive bit to remove speaker (10 minutes just for that), and then removed speaker. Hard to push the little blue lock part in, so I could remove the connectors, but finally got that. Taped the leads together so they wouldn't rattle, etc. Just left tweeter in place, but just put speaker into storage (will give it to next owner of car). Damn hard to push the speaker cover down flush. Maybe I will need to wait for a warm day when the little plastic tabs won't be as stiff.

Overall seems better, but I'm not going to bother with ever putting it back.

[gaushell]

So easy and sounds so much better! Worth the 10 minutes.

[VIN240i13]

Maybe I am tone death but after reading so many messages about the center speaker disconnect I thought I would give it a try myself. All advice was used, the trim removal tool made access to the speaker a breeze, and I used a very tiny flat head screw driver to push in the lock on the speaker connectors.

Two observations, one I did not notice much difference in the sound and/or separation quality, if anything I noted a slight reduction in audio level at the higher end of the volume. I took all the precautions to affix the loose ends so there was no post speaker removal rattle. Unfortunately there was, not a rattle so to speak but a creaking noise? Hard to describe the sound but it was definitely there when I drove over a bump. It was very annoying so I replaced the speaker and whatever it was is gone. I probably could have replaced the speaker in a disconnected state but decided against it.

[tiwahu]

Originally Posted by Cumberlandjames

OK, I buy the separation argument but as a convertible owner, how about the sound with the top down. II have the standard system but find it very poor. Sound from the rear even with the top up is weak and I assumed the center speaker was there to allow you to hear he radio while cruising topless.

Originally Posted by Cumberlandjames

OK, I buy the separation argument but as a convertible owner, how about the sound with the top down...

Serious question, I have HK and convertible, how is the sound on the highway with the top down after the center speaker delete?

[sdhasher21]

Did this the other day and wow it's a big difference. Getting way more bass and overall better sound. Wasn't a fan of the HK setup before. Not an audiophile, but like music with bass.