[AlexGT]

Hello my friends. I've been waiting and waiting for Wagner to have its downpipe with cat in stock since November... sent them several emails and no luck....

http://www.wagner-tuning.com/Downpip...cat_p_112.html

So, I'm kind of bored waiting, I see lots of owners in here had installed catless downpipe. Could you share with me the experience?

- What could go wrong with the car by using a downpipe without a cat? Is it eventually bad to go with catless dp?

- Is the catless downpipe better in therms of performance? By that I mean better than the one with cat.

- Will a catless downpipe make the car too much louder? (I have the MP Exhaust btw)

- How can I get rid of the CEL error that will come if I go with the catless dp? Once you get rid of the CEL, it won't come back again, right?

- Will the exhaust fumes stink?

I appreciate your response, as I'm almost considering purchasing this catless downpipe due to its price, but I need to be sure of the consequences of installing it before I do it, but I'm unable to make the decision unless I get your comments, many thanks.

[skitsos]

My answer most likely won't be the best right now based on the fact I don't have my catless dp on my M235i yet. But... This is what I know and have heard/seen on friends cars to make me want to go towards catless this spring...

So first off you will see the best HP gains from a catless, as it reduces back pressure to the turbo, which makes it spool up faster, as well I have heard of it also increasing the life of the turbo.

As of now i have not heard of any long term problems of using a catless dp.

Your car will definitely be louder but it depends really on how loud you want your car. Of what I have heard, I personally love the sound!

And now to the smell. You will definitely smell raw fuel every once in awhile, mostly when you are at a stop light or parked. I believe it's stronger with the windows down. For me it's not really that bad and I have a pretty damn good sense of smell.

Now to the CEL errors... Yes you will have them. There are 2 ways to get rid of this as far as I know. One is the solution most people use, which is to get a tune for your car, tunes will have software that will automatically cancel out CEL errors. The second one is to buy a catless dp with a cat simulator. As of now the only company I know of that makes these is Armytrix. It plugs into the sensor on the cars side to trick it into thinking it has a stock cat on the dp. It comes optional with the purchase of their exhaust system. By the way I am buying the Armytrix w/ catless dp w/ cat simulator this spring so that is how I know this.

So in my opinion, if you are considering catless, go for it!

[AlexGT]

Originally Posted by skitsos

My answer most likely won't be the best right now based on the fact I don't have my catless dp on my M235i yet. But... This is what I know and have heard/seen on friends cars to make me want to go towards catless this spring...

So first off you will see the best HP gains from a catless, as it reduces back pressure to the turbo, which makes it spool up faster, as well I have heard of it also increasing the life of the turbo.

As of now i have not heard of any long term problems of using a catless dp.

Your car will definitely be louder but it depends really on how loud you want your car. Of what I have heard, I personally love the sound!

And now to the smell. You will definitely smell raw fuel every once in awhile, mostly when you are at a stop light or parked. I believe it's stronger with the windows down. For me it's not really that bad and I have a pretty damn good sense of smell.

Now to the CEL errors... Yes you will have them. There are 2 ways to get rid of this as far as I know. One is the solution most people use, which is to get a tune for your car, tunes will have software that will automatically cancel out CEL errors. The second one is to buy a catless dp with a cat simulator. As of now the only company I know of that makes these is Armytrix. It plugs into the sensor on the cars side to trick it into thinking it has a stock cat on the dp. It comes optional with the purchase of their exhaust system. By the way I am buying the Armytrix w/ catless dp w/ cat simulator this spring so that is how I know this.

So in my opinion, if you are considering catless, go for it!

Thanks skitsos , your opinion is very valuable and very useful, I appreciate it.

I'm installing the RaceChip piggy back, but I truly don't know if that box is capable of getting rid of the CEL error

Now the Armytrix options sounds nice, but that DP is only available for purchase if I buy the exhaust system as well, right? They don't sell it separate?

Many thanks again!

[skitsos]

Originally Posted by AlexGT

Thanks skitsos , your opinion is very valuable and very useful, I appreciate it.

I'm installing the RaceChip piggy back, but I truly don't know if that box is capable of getting rid of the CEL error

Now the Armytrix options sounds nice, but that DP is only available for purchase if I buy the exhaust system as well, right? They don't sell it separate?

Many thanks again!

I don't know for sure if they would let you purchase the dp separate. I believe you have to buy the exhaust to have the option to buy the dp. But if you wanted to know specifics, you could try contacting them, Armytrix is quick with their replies and they are very helpful.

[AlexGT]

Originally Posted by skitsos

I don't know for sure if they would let you purchase the dp separate. I believe you have to buy the exhaust to have the option to buy the dp. But if you wanted to know specifics, you could try contacting them, Armytrix is quick with their replies and they are very helpful.

Alright, will do, thank you man

[AlexGT]

skitsos , I've been reading more about catless downpipes, some people say that they are NOT good for automatic transmission cars, as they make to loose low end torque.....

So I guess I will wait for a Downpipe with 200cell cat. If you have automatic, take this into consideration

[kd0t]

I have catless downpipe on my automatic. Not sure what you mean by loss of low end torque.. Mine pulls pretty damn hard.

To answer your questions, yes it has a pretty big power gain.

Yes you will smell the fumes but it's not as bad. I was wondering how bad it will smell before I installed it and after I got it installed, I realized it's no where near as bad as I thought.

I'm not sure if it's bad for the car but I'd imagine it'll actually help the car "breathe" as the stock piping has a lot of air restriction.

Yes it will cause a CEL but I have JB4 so it automatically deletes the light.

Also, FYI - I've heard some of the catted downpipes still cause some sporadic CELs.

[AlexGT]

Originally Posted by kd0t

I have catless downpipe on my automatic. Not sure what you mean by loss of low end torque.. Mine pulls pretty damn hard.

To answer your questions, yes it has a pretty big power gain.

Yes you will smell the fumes but it's not as bad. I was wondering how bad it will smell before I installed it and after I got it installed, I realized it's no where near as bad as I thought.

I'm not sure if it's bad for the car but I'd imagine it'll actually help the car "breathe" as the stock piping has a lot of air restriction.

Yes it will cause a CEL but I have JB4 so it automatically deletes the light.

Also, FYI - I've heard some of the catted downpipes still cause some sporadic CELs.

Thank you for sharing your experience my friend, very useful for me! I was browsing youtube and found this video of an M135i that sounds amazing with the catless downpipe + the MPE, but on the comments section, they say they lost low end torque

I'm screwed with the CEL error then, I don't have JB4 and in my country I'm unable to find any shop (that is not the dealer) that can do the CEL error delete

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AlexGT

Hello my friends. I've been waiting and waiting for Wagner to have its downpipe with cat in stock since November... sent them several emails and no luck....

http://www.wagner-tuning.com/Downpip...cat_p_112.html

So, I'm kind of bored waiting, I see lots of owners in here had installed catless downpipe. Could you share with me the experience?

- What could go wrong with the car by using a downpipe without a cat? Is it eventually bad to go with catless dp?

- Is the catless downpipe better in therms of performance? By that I mean better than the one with cat.

- Will a catless downpipe make the car too much louder? (I have the MP Exhaust btw)

- How can I get rid of the CEL error that will come if I go with the catless dp? Once you get rid of the CEL, it won't come back again, right?

- Will the exhaust fumes stink?

I appreciate your response, as I'm almost considering purchasing this catless downpipe due to its price, but I need to be sure of the consequences of installing it before I do it, but I'm unable to make the decision unless I get your comments, many thanks.

If you are still waiting for the Wagner catted, why don't you just get the Evolution Racewerks catted DP?

Nothing can go wrong with using catless DP except loss of tracking because of the extra power

Catlless DP adds a very nice tone to the exhaust, not as loud as a muffler delete though

To get rid of the CEL, you need to use a JB4. You should start with a tune before getting dowpipes anyways

[AlexGT]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

If you are still waiting for the Wagner catted, why don't you just get the Evolution Racewerks catted DP?

Nothing can go wrong with using catless DP except loss of tracking because of the extra power

Catlless DP adds a very nice tone to the exhaust, not as loud as a muffler delete though

To get rid of the CEL, you need to use a JB4. You should start with a tune before getting dowpipes anyways

Hey Mike, thanks for the remarks, you're completely right, I'm actually now quoting the Evolution Racewerks catted DP I'm just waiting for them to confirm is an exact fit for my car, I had an awful experience with aFe catted DP that they told me it fit and it did not , so now I'm more careful. Once they confirm it fits, I will purchase it, is like $125 more expensive than the Wagner but it has a good price

I'm installing the RaceChip tune box next week, but I will need to find out if it works like the JB4, by that I mean if it works for getting rid of CEL errors hehe

Cheers and thank you

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AlexGT

Hey Mike, thanks for the remarks, you're completely right, I'm actually now quoting the Evolution Racewerks catted DP I'm just waiting for them to confirm is an exact fit for my car, I had an awful experience with aFe catted DP that they told me it fit and it did not , so now I'm more careful. Once they confirm it fits, I will purchase it, is like $125 more expensive than the Wagner but it has a good price

I'm installing the RaceChip tune box next week, but I will need to find out if it works like the JB4, by that I mean if it works for getting rid of CEL errors hehe

Cheers and thank you

Let me know if you need any help, we are an authorized Evolution Racwewerks dealer and can get you all the info that you need.

[AlexGT]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Let me know if you need any help, we are an authorized Evolution Racewewerks dealer and can get you all the info that you need.

Oh great!! Didn't know that, so can I purchase it with you/your company? Could you assist on the purchase? PM if you can please, thanks a lot!

[Sp1ke]

Originally Posted by skitsos

Now to the CEL errors... Yes you will have them. There are 2 ways to get rid of this as far as I know. One is the solution most people use, which is to get a tune for your car, tunes will have software that will automatically cancel out CEL errors. The second one is to buy a catless dp with a cat simulator. As of now the only company I know of that makes these is Armytrix. It plugs into the sensor on the cars side to trick it into thinking it has a stock cat on the dp. It comes optional with the purchase of their exhaust system. By the way I am buying the Armytrix w/ catless dp w/ cat simulator this spring so that is how I know this.

So in my opinion, if you are considering catless, go for it!

Will the Armytrix pass emissions with the cat simulator?

[skitsos]

Originally Posted by Sp1ke

Will the Armytrix pass emissions with the cat simulator?

No it will not pass emission tests. The cat simulator that is on the DP is just a sensor harness that plugs into the cars end that tricks the car into thinking that there is a stock cat there, so you will not get any CEL errors from the car about the cat being removed, having problems etc. They even guarantee this on their website. The reason they have that is just if you don't do a tune for your car, or your tune doesn't cancel CEL errors.

[cbbplanet]

there's also another option of o2 sensor spacers which is the cheapest way to go at around $20 off of ebay. Downside is, you have to first find one that fits on the o2 sensor and it's not guaranteed to work.

[Sp1ke]

Originally Posted by skitsos

No it will not pass emission tests. The cat simulator that is on the DP is just a sensor harness that plugs into the cars end that tricks the car into thinking that there is a stock cat there, so you will not get any CEL errors from the car about the cat being removed, having problems etc. They even guarantee this on their website. The reason they have that is just if you don't do a tune for your car, or your tune doesn't cancel CEL errors.

Thanks for the response. Thats kind of my
major concern right now. Being able to add
a catless dp and still clear the cel and pass
emissions. Of course theres the catted route,
but even those sometimes throw a cel and
theres the power decrease compared to catless.

[Gate7]

The issue I have with jb4 is that it clears all the codes, not just your catless code. So if you have the autoclear option ON and you get check engine light for something else, it just clears it.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but is there a way around this?

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Gate7

The issue I have with jb4 is that it clears all the codes, not just your catless code. So if you have the autoclear option ON and you get check engine light for something else, it just clears it.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but is there a way around this?

You're wrong.

This thread is filled with so much face-palm.

[e46m3to335i]

Originally Posted by FC4

You're wrong.

This thread is filled with so much face-palm.

[BavarianMotorWorkz]

OP Armytrix offers a catless DP separate from exhaust. See here. Mike from XPH can hook you up, though I wouldn't personally dish out 1k+ for a DP. I went with the Fabspeed Catless & am never looking back Good luck to ya !

[AlexGT]

Originally Posted by BavarianMotorWorkz

OP Armytrix offers a catless DP separate from exhaust. See here. Mike from XPH can hook you up, though I wouldn't personally dish out 1k+ for a DP. I went with the Fabspeed Catless & am never looking back Good luck to ya !

I posted this 5 years ago, last reply was also in 2015. You revived a ghost post

[BavarianMotorWorkz]

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