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      11-10-2019, 07:50 PM   #1
dradernh
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Central Side Jack Points

This past summer, I had a shop install a jack point in the center of each side of the car. Below are photos of the passenger-side jack point.

Before going further, the reason I had these installed was that I like to be able to quickly and easily get my cars up on four jack stands.

As I generally remember it being explained to me, this is the process the shop used to create the jack points:

1) Remove the underbody panels
2) Remove the rocker panels
3) Rivet a pair of shaped-to-fit pieces of flat stainless steel stock to the car’s unibody structure above where the rocker panels sit (I don’t know the length of those pieces, or the number of rivets used)
4) Weld the rectangular stainless steel jack points seen in the photos below to the riveted SS pieces (length: 10”; depth: 0.75”; capped at both ends)
5) Cut slots in the rocker panels so the jack points sit proud of the rockers
6) Cut the underbody panels so the jack points are accessible from below the car
7) Re-install the rocker panels and the underbody panels

I don’t have a shot showing how far away from the car you have to be before you can see the jack points hanging down below the rocker panels. It’s not that far, though, as bright stainless steel stands out against the background of the car’s body color and the shadow cast onto the ground by the car. Personally, I find it kind of cool when I see it while standing away from the car, but another owner might well have chosen to paint the stainless steel flat black or even body color.

This is a shot of the passenger-side jack point up-close from the side: .

This shows the jack point from a quarter-angle below:


And this shows the jack point from below. You can see the opening cut in the underbody panel, as well as the rocker panel sitting above it at the left-bottom of the jack point.
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2017 M240i: 23.6K, MT, Sunroof Delete, 3,432#, EB, Leather, Driving Assistance Package, Heated Front Seats | Sold: E12 530i, E24 M635CSi, E39 520i, E30 325is, E36 M3 (2)
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Last edited by dradernh; 11-11-2019 at 07:30 AM..
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      11-17-2019, 05:44 PM   #2
dradernh
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Managing Jack Pads

This post is a bit off-topic, but the general subject is the same, so I thought I'd post it here. In the first two photos above, you can see that I'm using jack pads* between the rubber pads on my ESCO jack stands and the jack pads# attached to the car. See photo and link below to distinguish between the two.

I've got three sets of these jack pads that fit into the car's jack pad openings and provide a flat spot for my jack stands' rubber pads and for the lift pads at the shop. Their principal purpose is to keep shops' lift pads from tearing up the car's jack pads. While the car's jack pads are pretty sturdy plastic, shops' lift pads don't have too much trouble mangling them. Maybe it's operator error...I don't know.

* =


# = Part No. 51717169981 – https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Supp...717169981.html

I'm sure many members here are familiar with jack pads like the one in the photo immediately above, and it's those pads and their use that this post is about. The issue is that it can be a bit of a chore fooling around with them as you are about to drop the car down onto both stands on a side.

This subject comes up regularly at the track, and another driver showed me his solution earlier this year. He's using plastic jack pads (i.e., the * pads between the jack stand and the car's mounted jack pads), and what he's done is to glue them in place. Bingo - no more playing around with jack pads.

A couple of things come to mind with that solution: how long will the glue hold, and will the distance the jack pads hang down below the car's jack pads affect the ability of a shop to fit its lift pads under the jack pads? Even if the glue doesn't hold indefinitely, the pads can probably be pinned to the car's jack pads, and then they'll remain in position until they're removed. And if the pads are too low for a shop's lift pads to fit underneath them, then the shop will have to roll the car up onto blocks to make room. This is already a common necessity with lowered cars that weren't very high to begin with.

An M4 driver suggested he might have the base/footing of his jack pads shortened/cut-down so that they don't hang down quite as far under the car's jack pads. Rather than using glue, he was thinking he would in some fashion permanently attach his jack pads to the car's jack pads.

Has anyone else given any thought to this or come up with a solution to get around playing with jack pads when setting the car down onto jack stands?
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TC Kline Coilovers; H&R Front Bar; Wavetrac; Al Subframe Bushings; 18X9/9½ ARC-8s; 255/35-18 PS4S (4); Dinan Elite V2 & CAI; MPerf Orange BBK; Schroth Quick Fit Pro;
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Last edited by dradernh; 11-17-2019 at 05:50 PM..
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      11-18-2019, 12:43 AM   #3
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I thought that adapters like you pictured had those orange bits to hold them in place (friction fit to hold it up in the socket while you position the jack or stand) - do those not work, or did you grab a stock photo of a different unit? I got a cheapo solid metal adapter w/o those, and already see the benefit of something to jam in the socket to hold it up in place.
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      11-18-2019, 01:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
I thought that adapters like you pictured had those orange bits to hold them in place (friction fit to hold it up in the socket while you position the jack or stand) - do those not work, or did you grab a stock photo of a different unit? I got a cheapo solid metal adapter w/o those, and already see the benefit of something to jam in the socket to hold it up in place.
It turns out that the car's jack pad pocket openings are not precise in their sizing. Given what they are, that makes sense when you think about it.

So the reverselogic units don't fit precisely. I have two of them; one doesn't fit perfectly, but it does stay up in the jack pad pocket (at an angle), and the other is just a tiny bit too large and is best held in place by hand while the jack stand is placed underneath it. To get the latter to work, the car needs to be jacked to within (I'd say) about a ½" window so that the jack stand holds the pad in place when placed below it. After doing this a handful of times, I've developed a routine that works reasonably quickly. Still, it will be nice when I no longer have to fool with these things.

I've got the cheapo metal (and plastic) units, too, and it's pretty much the same drill: jack to the right height, put the jack pads one at a time into each of the car's jack pad pockets on a side while slipping each jack stand underneath, and then lower the car the inch or two necessary to drop the car's weight on that side onto the jack stands.

I talked with the manufacturer of the reverselogic units, and his suggestion was this: since his jack pads are a tiny bit too wide, take something like an X-ACTO knife and shave off just enough of the orange silicone plugs to create a snug fit. I've yet to try that. One concern, of course, is that the car's jack pads get replaced at some point, the pockets of the new pads are just slightly larger, and the expensive reverselogic units no longer fit.

If I don't end up pinning or in some other fashion fixing pads into the car's pockets, I may just take the inexpensive jack pads and wrap them with something like Gorilla tape until they're sized to stay in the pockets.
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2017 M240i: 23.6K, MT, Sunroof Delete, 3,432#, EB, Leather, Driving Assistance Package, Heated Front Seats | Sold: E12 530i, E24 M635CSi, E39 520i, E30 325is, E36 M3 (2)
TC Kline Coilovers; H&R Front Bar; Wavetrac; Al Subframe Bushings; 18X9/9½ ARC-8s; 255/35-18 PS4S (4); Dinan Elite V2 & CAI; MPerf Orange BBK; Schroth Quick Fit Pro;
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      11-23-2019, 05:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
If I don't end up pinning or in some other fashion fixing pads into the car's pockets, I may just take the inexpensive jack pads and wrap them with something like Gorilla tape until they're sized to stay in the pockets.
I'm liking the tape idea. I'll have to try that the next time I jack the car. Only needs to stay in long enough to not fall out until they rest on the jack or stands. I'm a bit tired of pinching my fingers holding it in place while I run the jack up to them. For the money those Reverse Logic pads just seemed goofy. Be nicer if there was a more positive retention system.

dradernh , I thought you had the fancy Reverse Logic tilting block posts for those Esco jack stands? Or was it someone else? Those look real nice, but pricey, and I'm guessing a bit fiddly to deal with.

I've been using my cheap Northern Tool jack stands with the Y-shaped tops. They are just narrow enough so that one arm of the Y will fit in the jack pocket when the Y is oriented lengthwise to the car. I do have to be careful that the other leg of the Y isn't hitting anything. A bit tricky to place, but they lock in nicely when the weight is on them, and it doesn't seem to damage the lift pockets any.

Then again, I'm wondering just how critical it is to use jack pads anyway. My BMW dealer doesn't use them. Their lifts just have plain rubber pads they center on the lift points. The plastic seems to be strong enough that if the load is evenly spread around the lift point receptacle edge they don't deform. The flat rubber pads on the stock Esco jacks would seem to be fine.
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      11-23-2019, 06:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
I'm liking the tape idea. I'll have to try that the next time I jack the car. Only needs to stay in long enough to not fall out until they rest on the jack or stands. I'm a bit tired of pinching my fingers holding it in place while I run the jack up to them. For the money those Reverse Logic pads just seemed goofy. Be nicer if there was a more positive retention system.

dradernh , I thought you had the fancy Reverse Logic tilting block posts for those Esco jack stands? Or was it someone else? Those look real nice, but pricey, and I'm guessing a bit fiddly to deal with.

I've been using my cheap Northern Tool jack stands with the Y-shaped tops. They are just narrow enough so that one arm of the Y will fit in the jack pocket when the Y is oriented lengthwise to the car. I do have to be careful that the other leg of the Y isn't hitting anything. A bit tricky to place, but they lock in nicely when the weight is on them, and it doesn't seem to damage the lift pockets any.

Then again, I'm wondering just how critical it is to use jack pads anyway. My BMW dealer doesn't use them. Their lifts just have plain rubber pads they center on the lift points. The plastic seems to be strong enough that if the load is evenly spread around the lift point receptacle edge they don't deform. The flat rubber pads on the stock Esco jacks would seem to be fine.
First, thanks for posting, as you make many excellent points.

Re the tape approach: I won't be surprised if tape turns out to be the obvious solution to using jack pads in an easy-to-manage fashion. Sometimes, simpler is better, isn't it. The Reverse Logic jack pad solution would have worked better if the orange silicone plugs functioned more like a brake caliper piston; e.g., extending hydraulically by, say, pressing a button on the bottom of the pad after inserting it into the car's jack pad pocket. As in: slap the jack pad into place, push the button, slide the jack stand into place, and your'e good to go!

Re Reverse Logic's tilting block posts: yup, I'm that guy. I've used them once, and they're not a solution to the problem, as you still have to futz around a bit before dropping the car down. It was only after I had them in hand that I took the time to actually think about what I'd have to do to use them. Before I used them that one time I realized I needn't have bought them - they're just as fiddly (as you say, and well-said, too!) as the jack pads. Still, full marks to Reverse Logic for making very nice pieces, and I mean that sincerely. It's their pieces I'll tape if that's what I end up doing.

Re your Northern Tool jack stands: you know, in the end it's all about what each of us can find that works for us. I'm still determined to use my Esco jack stands, if only because I feel safer with my car's side(s) being up on stands with their footprint and top.

Re whether or not jack pads are even needed: This is an excellent point. I suspect a BMW dealer's equipment (and its techs) are much gentler on the car's jack pads than are many other shops. I bought extra (car) jack pads just in case I ever need them, and while they're certainly sturdy (easy to confirm when you're holding one in your hand), they're not going to stand up to the treatment they'll receive in some shops. A couple of mine have become very mildly misshapen since I bought my car (it's only been lifted at the dealer once, but quite a few times at my independent shop, even though based upon my observations that shop is exceedingly careful to not abuse customers' equipment), and I wonder with what frequency owners are having them replaced. But yeah, do we even really need to be fooling with these overpriced hockey pucks in the first place. Food for thought.
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2017 M240i: 23.6K, MT, Sunroof Delete, 3,432#, EB, Leather, Driving Assistance Package, Heated Front Seats | Sold: E12 530i, E24 M635CSi, E39 520i, E30 325is, E36 M3 (2)
TC Kline Coilovers; H&R Front Bar; Wavetrac; Al Subframe Bushings; 18X9/9½ ARC-8s; 255/35-18 PS4S (4); Dinan Elite V2 & CAI; MPerf Orange BBK; Schroth Quick Fit Pro;
GTechniq Crystal Serum Ultra Ceramic; Suntek PPF

Last edited by dradernh; 11-23-2019 at 06:54 PM..
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