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      04-02-2019, 01:28 AM   #1
vancitymike
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tip when with instructors

I was just at a track day, and the first 30 minute session included a instructor driving my car a few laps. Now this is all fine and what I expected, but the guy just kept putting on laps, and I wanted a chance to drive and him as passenger.. He wasn't going slow, in fact I had to ask him to slow down as I was concerned about causing wear on my brand new pads I just installed..

top tip - if you have an instructor hogging your track time with your car, instead of maybe offending the guy (like I did) just say you get car sick easy and slower is better. (I felt sick about what he was doing to my car)
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      04-02-2019, 09:06 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancitymike View Post
I was just at a track day, and the first 30 minute session included a instructor driving my car a few laps. Now this is all fine and what I expected, but the guy just kept putting on laps, and I wanted a chance to drive and him as passenger.. He wasn't going slow, in fact I had to ask him to slow down as I was concerned about causing wear on my brand new pads I just installed..
What kind of club did you go with - one where you were with the instructor the rest of the day, too, or one where you spend a session with him and then you're on your own?
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      04-02-2019, 10:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
What kind of club did you go with - one where you were with the instructor the rest of the day, too, or one where you spend a session with him and then you're on your own?
I did the same event previously, and on that day the instructor only drove my car for maybe 3 laps, then let me drive for the rest of the session. On this day, the guy I had was really good and everything but it got to the point were he wasn't really talking and it seemed like more of a joyride I'd rather be the driver of... - at that point I was trying to figure out the best way to get him to at least slow down
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      04-05-2019, 01:24 PM   #4
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My experience with bmwcca instructors is that they won’t drive your car. Now, I spent last weekend at VIR with the Tarheel chapter. My instructor took me around the track in his car, a Mustang GT350. He used to be a bimmerhead but switched to the Ford.
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      04-07-2019, 01:18 PM   #5
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That sounds strange. I've only done track events with BMW and Audi clubs, and an SCCA event (and not a lot of them). But, all of them discourage the instructor driving your car, and prefer that the instructor use their car when showing driving techniques. (Got an amazing ride from an instructor in an old A4 Avant that really showed how smooth technique will increase your corner times.)

Occasionally an instructor will drive the student car, but it's more likely when they are old friends and working on car tuning. Not usually part of the driver instruction.

One student with a Porsche Carrera 4 at the SCCA event wanted the instructor to drive it so he could get a sense of the limits he knew he was no where close to hitting. It was a long conversation amongst the organizers and a careful selection of a seasoned racer with Porsche experience before they did that. And none of the instructors were that keen on it, even with such a spectacular ride.

So, maybe your corner of the country is different, but having the instructor joy ride your car seems a bit odd.
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      04-07-2019, 08:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
That sounds strange. I've only done track events with BMW and Audi clubs, and an SCCA event (and not a lot of them). But, all of them discourage the instructor driving your car, and prefer that the instructor use their car when showing driving techniques. (Got an amazing ride from an instructor in an old A4 Avant that really showed how smooth technique will increase your corner times.)

Occasionally an instructor will drive the student car, but it's more likely when they are old friends and working on car tuning. Not usually part of the driver instruction.

One student with a Porsche Carrera 4 at the SCCA event wanted the instructor to drive it so he could get a sense of the limits he knew he was no where close to hitting. It was a long conversation amongst the organizers and a careful selection of a seasoned racer with Porsche experience before they did that. And none of the instructors were that keen on it, even with such a spectacular ride.

So, maybe your corner of the country is different, but having the instructor joy ride your car seems a bit odd.

I hope I can find a club with the same policies! Now, at the very least, instructors won't be driving my car if I can help it - glad to hear there aren't a lot stories like mine.
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      04-08-2019, 03:12 PM   #7
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Instructors drive in your car that way that to determine the track temp, tire feel, brake feel, all of this will determine how hard you as a student should be pushing the car.

To say he was abusing the car, dude your at a track day.

You get sick driving fast in the passenger seat? Imagine the instructor sitting shotgun with some noob in a 400+whp car who thinks he knows how to drive. If this is still too much, see above. Its a track day, not a sprint on open road.

To not let your instructor drive your car is a big no. They probably club race and have decades of experience on that track. They probably built their own cars many times and can answer al levels of questions, most of all the easy ones.. Tire psi levels, tires, pads, etc. They are not abusing your car, they are driving it the way it was designed. And most are only 8/10ths. They drive like you should be driving after a few sessions.
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      04-09-2019, 08:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancitymike View Post
I did the same event previously, and on that day the instructor only drove my car for maybe 3 laps, then let me drive for the rest of the session. On this day, the guy I had was really good and everything but it got to the point were he wasn't really talking and it seemed like more of a joyride I'd rather be the driver of... - at that point I was trying to figure out the best way to get him to at least slow down
The German marque clubs with which I've run and instructed emphasize capable and qualified instruction for students of all levels. Driving the student's car is rarely a part of that equation; instead, having the student go out with the instructor in his or her car is the model for showing the student the way around the track, where the flag stations are, etc., etc.

Exceptions are when the student asks an instructor to drive his car or, rarely, when the instructor has come to the track without a car and the student is okay with the instructor showing him the way around when it's necessary and at a moderate pace.

The NASA regions I'm familiar with conduct their events in a similar fashion. That is, it's about the student learning, having a good time, and wanting to return with the same group.

At the websites below, you can see the events these organizations are sponsoring in your region of the country. There are other highly-regarded groups that sponsor student-centered events, too - I just haven't run with them.

Depending upon your circumstances, it can be worth traveling to the right event being sponsored by an organization that's right for you.

BMW – http://bmwclub.ca/member/carclubs/ and https://www.bmwcca.org/chapterfinder
Audi – https://audiclubna.org/chapters/
Porsche – https://www.pca.org/region-directory
NASA – https://www.nasaproracing.com/regions
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      05-03-2019, 08:28 AM   #9
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My very first HPDE was w/ BMWCCA - GVC at Watkins Glen; about a year ago. The instructor took my car out for a first lap, which combined a vehicle check-out as well as helping familiarize me with the track. It was presented as s/t he did routinely, but I DK if everybody's instructor did this. I was quite happy to have that additional level of scrutiny, since I was a few minutes away from doing the scariest things I've ever done in a car (that I was driving). While it is iffy to run multiple laps that way, I'd generally agree w/ Bryan (above), and if you are squeamish about 'wear on your new brake pads' then HPDE's are not your thing.
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      05-08-2019, 02:34 PM   #10
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I've never had an instructor drive my car in the 6 track days I've done. Twice I've been offered a ride in the instructors car, one a fully race prepped E30. That thing had some grip!
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