[Himbla122]

I bought a new 2021 m240i in June and I wasn't aware that the 2022 model was getting a complete over haul. I love my M240 but I wish the dealer gave me a heads up. For the price difference how much better is this new 2022 model over my 2021?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Himbla122

I bought a new 2021 m240i in June and I wasn't aware that the 2022 model was getting a complete over haul. I love my M240 but I wish the dealer gave me a heads up. For the price difference how much better is this new 2022 model over my 2021?

Objectively, it is not better. It is different. You have to apply your preferences to see which is better for you. From aesthetics to no manual trans choice, from a proven high-quality current program to a new vehicle on a new platform in a new assembly plant, no one else knows what is “better” for you.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Objectively, it is not better. It is different. You have to apply your preferences to see which is better for you. From aesthetics to no manual trans choice, from a proven high-quality current program to a new vehicle on a new platform in a new assembly plant, no one else knows what is “better” for you.

...

[ehosca]

For better or for worse, I take small comfort in knowing mine was assembled in Leipzig. I do like the new dashboard on the 2022 though...

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ehosca

For better or for worse, I take small comfort in knowing mine was assembled in Leipzig. I do like the new dashboard on the 2022 though...

I do as well, but not because it is in Germany, but because it is a highly experienced plant with seasoned line operators. The new plant in San Luis Potosi can achieve the same status and quality output over time. The OEM where I spent much of my career had excellent quality assembly in our plants in Mexico with an experienced, dedicated, and professional crew. I would counsel a first model year of patience for anyone seeking the new generation 2, or any other new vehicle, or from a new plant source.

[ehosca]

Exactly for this reason.

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I do as well, but not because it is in Germany, but because it is a highly experienced plant with seasoned line operators. The new plant in San Luis Potosi can achieve the same status and quality output over time. The OEM where I spent much of my career had excellent quality assembly in our plants in Mexico with an experienced, dedicated, and professional crew. I would counsel a first model year of patience for anyone seeking the new generation 2, or any other new vehicle, or from a new plant source.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Himbla122

I bought a new 2021 m240i in June and I wasn't aware that the 2022 model was getting a complete over haul. I love my M240 but I wish the dealer gave me a heads up. For the price difference how much better is this new 2022 model over my 2021?

It's really on you to do your due diligence on things like this.

The new M240 will certainly be faster, better handling, roomier, and comes with an LSD as stock. Better driving connection? Doubt it. Looks wise? That's up to individual taste.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by ehosca

For better or for worse, I take small comfort in knowing mine was assembled in Leipzig. I do like the new dashboard on the 2022 though...

I fail to see the logic in this and I hear it all the time. Cars are like Legos. Parts only go on one way. If something isn't installed correctly, it's obvious at the time of install or during the various QC inspections and system checks along the line. The assembly process is tracked and monitored extensively, even at the more standard brands like Ford, GM, etc. If there's a quality issue, it stems from the part or system design or a specification and not the person putting vehicle together.

[jv92red]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I fail to see the logic in this and I hear it all the time. Cars are like Legos. Parts only go on one way. If something isn't installed correctly, it's obvious at the time of install or during the various QC inspections and system checks along the line. The assembly process is tracked and monitored extensively, even at the more standard brands like Ford, GM, etc. If there's a quality issue, it stems from the part or system design or a specification and not the person putting vehicle together.

yes, and no.

I work for a Taiwanese-based industrial computer manufacturer (I won't give you the name). We make industrial computer solutions (Embedded computing, industrial automation, network appliances, etc.) We have factories in both Taiwan and in China. We have had more issues with products produced at our China factories than at our Taiwan factories statistically. And yes, we have the same QC standards at all of our manufacturing facilities globally. Recently, we had a specific assembly that was transitioned from being assembled at one of our Taiwan facilities to one of our China facilities because of labor cost. Same components, same specification, same QC. These assemblies at our China factories experience higher failure rates, both catastrophic and latent than at our Taiwan factory. The reason? well,... what's the uncommon variable here? I'll leave it at that.

In the business, we prefer to see catastrophic failures because these failures can be caught in QC before we ship. It's the latent issues we hate because these failures make it past QC cause the board or system will test 100% but will have a flaw that won't be exposed until several cycles, usage, temp or time that factory QC can't replicate. It's the end user that unfortunately will experience the flaw and now it's a RMA and potential lost business. (the real problem with some latent issues is when we get these RMA's back and can't replicate the issue and it gets sent back to the customer as tested good then it gets sent back to us again then we have to replace it - not good for either customer or supplier)

So cars aren't made up of legos that just either go in correctly or not. There's more to it. I have no idea about the car manufacturing environment or their standards but for me, if I have a choice I'll take a car made in Germany over the same exact same car made in Mexico.

[aerobod]

In the past, 3-series assembled in South Africa had higher quality than the same models assembled in Germany. Production country is not particularly material overall: https://www.autoweek.com/news/a18716...built-germany/

[msej449]

There's always a new model or mid-life upgrade in the pipeline. Sometimes, it's a well-kept secret, other times it's widely publicised and hard to miss. The upside of buying at the end of a cycle is that dealers are often on tough targets to sell the tail-end production ahead of the new model, and so prices get depressed i.e. you probably got your car at a discount.

I deliberately bought my M235i knowing there was an M240i in the pipeline, because the dealer was desperate to shift his allocation (so it was a discounted price); I was happy to buy a mature platform; and I didn't see the changes as that significant to make the then-current model obsolete.

Within a couple of years of the M240i coming out, it was clear that a new model was in the pipeline. It's just a natural product cycle. You'd keep deferring any purchase forever if you couldn't tolerate a new model appearing.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by aerobod

In the past, 3-series assembled in South Africa had higher quality than the same models assembled in Germany. Production country is not particularly material overall: https://www.autoweek.com/news/a18716...built-germany/

Quite true, and there are other similar examples of the "home plant" being surpassed by a remote plant, such as Marysville Honda audit scores on Accords versus those from supposedly superior Japan. Pickup trucks built in Mexico outscoring the US home plant. The issue is how well the plant is run and the quality processes of the local supply base. I'm not saying it's easy to set up foreign operations, but it is unrelated to the nationality of the home plant. The myth of German-built products having inherent superiority has been around for decades and can be disproven by this kind of data. They don't have Black Forest elves working in the plants there.

[Shovelman]

Getting parts and assemblies thru the quality gates can be a very different game in different places.
- There are different economics and politics around rejecting parts
- Workers have different protections in different countries so they may have different games
- Many parts are locally supplied and are not exactly equal
- Weather can affect assembly
- Facilities (especially paint shops) vary
- Transportation has it's effects
- Workers and conditions vary and can affect quality
- And let's not forget worker pride

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Shovelman

Getting parts and assemblies thru the quality gates can be a very different game in different places.
- There are different economics and politics around rejecting parts
- Workers have different protections in different countries so they may have different games
- Many parts are locally supplied and are not exactly equal
- Weather can affect assembly
- Facilities (especially paint shops) vary
- Transportation has it's effects
- Workers and conditions vary and can affect quality
- And let's not forget worker pride

All true and actual challenges whever a company establishes the massive undertaking of a remote plant, but it has been successfully done, as MB proved in South Africa, BMW proved in South Carolina, Volvo and BMW in China, the historical Detroit 3 in Mexico, Honda in Ohio, Subaru in Indiana, etc. The programs I was involved in also had Mexican plants and one could not find a more dedicated and proud team...and the results showed in quality audits.

[XutvJet]

I get the sense that some of you haven't worked on your own cars. Shit only goes back together one way. If you get it wrong, it doesn't look right or simply doesn't go back on. LOL

Also, all the parts in a BMW are made by suppliers located throughout the world including China, Asia, eastern Europe, etc. It's the parts that typically fail, not because the guy putting the parts on the car did something wrong.

[cooolone2]

Quality control in Mexico will not match that of European produced vehicles, sorry! Otherwise Mexcio would have been a world leaders in producing it's own vehicles long ago! So let's just stop the side by side comparisons. Graft and culture that supports it is rampant in Mexico as is other cultural aspects that are going to support a subpar manufacturing effort. Could a company like BMW effectuate quality controls that will mitigate these issues? Maybe... And most assuredly they'll dump big $$$ in efforts to prove their production shift there until it becomes unsustainable. The risk/loss assessment is and was definitely a huge part of the decision including factoring in importation and shipping costs, etc when deciding to move there. Not necessarily the only focus being that vehicles could or would be made at the same level of confidence as their European production facilities.

I wouldn't buy a model produced from a Mexico plant at all, period! That's just me... Doesn't even matter the vehicle or car maker!

And I'm sure if given the option via having simultaneous production in both Europe and Mexico as a choice, not many other purchasers would chose Mexico either... Again, given a choice. So now you'll need to research what vehicle is produced where when making a decision.

Have a great day!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Quality control in Mexico will not match that of European produced vehicles, sorry! Otherwise Mexcio would have been a world leaders in producing it's own vehicles long ago! So let's just stop the side by side comparisons. Graft and culture that supports it is rampant in Mexico as is other cultural aspects that are going to support a subpar manufacturing effort. Could a company like BMW effectuate quality controls that will mitigate these issues? Maybe... And most assuredly they'll dump big $$$ in efforts to prove their production shift there until it becomes unsustainable. The risk/loss assessment is and was definitely a huge part of the decision including factoring in importation and shipping costs, etc when deciding to move there. Not necessarily the only focus being that vehicles could or would be made at the same level of confidence as their European production facilities.

I wouldn't buy a model produced from a Mexico plant at all, period! That's just me... Doesn't even matter the vehicle or car maker!

And I'm sure if given the option via having simultaneous production in both Europe and Mexico as a choice, not many other purchasers would chose Mexico either... Again, given a choice. So now you'll need to research what vehicle is produced where when making a decision.

Have a great day!

You have a great day as well, but nothing in your rant is accurate, except that we are all free to have our own biases.

[Miata13]

Originally Posted by msej449

.....

I deliberately bought my M235i knowing there was an M240i in the pipeline, because the dealer was desperate to shift his allocation (so it was a discounted price); I was happy to buy a mature platform; and I didn't see the changes as that significant to make the then-current model obsolete.".

This was exactly my thoughts when purchasing my new '19 230i xDrive Track Package September 2019.... I'd seen the upcoming updates and did not prefer those to the existing version. As it turned out, I was able to get the Track Package AND xDrive in a 230..along with my preferred round gauge cluster and CD player.....

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I get the sense that some of you haven't worked on your own cars. Shit only goes back together one way. If you get it wrong, it doesn't look right or simply doesn't go back on. LOL

Also, all the parts in a BMW are made by suppliers located throughout the world including China, Asia, eastern Europe, etc. It's the parts that typically fail, not because the guy putting the parts on the car did something wrong.

This is true to a large extent, but there are circumstances when a torque gun misses a setting, a wiring harness is not secured correctly and creates a rattle, a urethane robot malfunctions and doesn't get a full 360 around the windshield before being applied to the body and a water leak results, etc. Obvious issues such as JIT in-sequence parts arrival getting out of sequence can be corrected in-plant, but some things can be subtle that are purely a result of plant operations, although one could challenge the design release engineer for not making each operation even more foolproof.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Otherwise Mexcio would have been a world leaders in producing it's own vehicles long ago!

Umm... Mexico has been producing vehicles for a long time and IS a world leader in vehicle assembly. The likes of the Audi Q5, Chevy Silverado / GMC Sierra, Lincoln MKZ, Infiniti QX50, Mazda3, BMW 3 and 5 series and MANY more examples are all assembled in Mexico and shipped around the world, including to the US market.

[Shovelman]

Manufacturing plants are normally surrounded by 2 fences, a physical one and a virtual one An interesting thing happens inside the fence. Some of the local culture and politics fades and is replaced by the manufacturing culture and politics.

[jliuod]

Well, I just purchased a 2021 Honda Ridgeline truck. On my way home after picking up the truck I turned on the heated steering wheel. Nothing came one and the little LED light on the switch also did not come on.

Once I got home I started looking into it. Came to find out the 10 amp fuse for the heated steering wheel was missing in the fuse box.

Not only did Honda failed to put in a fuse at the factory, but the dealer who was supposed to check all functions of the vehicle(I have the pre-inspection sheet all checked off) also failed to catch the missing fuse.

I have had many Japanese cars in the past. I don't recall any part(s) missing from a brand new car. In fact I have never had a new car(Japanese and German) with missing part(s). What is the difference? Lots of Japanese cars are being manufactured in the US compares to them manufactured in Japan.

There is absolutely NO excuse for this. What quality control?