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View Poll Results: What is your engine of choice for the upcoming M2?
i4, and I won't buy an M2 otherwise 14 2.75%
I4, but I don't really care either way and I would consider an M2 regardless 70 13.73%
I6, but I don't really care either way and I would consider an M2 regardless 124 24.31%
I6 only for me. I ain't buying an M2 with anything else 302 59.22%
Voters: 510. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-01-2013, 02:06 PM   #265
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I would prefer the 6 BUT if the 4cyl is thrown in there with 380hp i would not hesitate a minute to buy this car...Lightweight=better
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      11-01-2013, 02:13 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Dr Nitschke relates to a four cylinder not coming tomorrow , just as an M2 is not coming tomorrow.

But if they can get this four cylinder to make 360-380 PS why should it not be implemented into the M2?

Remember this? No more Dogmas.
Please read the poll result lot of people don`t want to see a 4cyl in this car why BMW want to insist on it?

A 4cyl will sound horrible, won`t be smooth, won't have such a nice flat torque curve, will probably get and higher turbo lag, will probably get long term reliability issues(if it does have 180-190hp/liter) and will probably use more fuel in the real world than a straight 6. For all of thoses reason I find the 4 cyl to be unacceptable in the M2 especially that this car won't sell cheapt. If BMW go ahead with this in the M2 that will be a complete deal breaker for me and for alot of person I would think.
Bravo !!
Couldn't have said it better myself.

BMW would be foolish to ignore the desires of 85% of the potential buyers of this car.
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      11-01-2013, 02:55 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Dr Nitschke relates to a four cylinder not coming tomorrow , just as an M2 is not coming tomorrow.

But if they can get this four cylinder to make 360-380 PS why should it not be implemented into the M2?
Right above he alludes to the possibility of an M2 coming. His very next quote is he doesn't see a 4-cylinder M-car though anytime soon. That seems pretty clear to me.

I've owned quite a few FI 4-cylinder cars. I don't want another one. I'd much rather (along with the majority of the people here) would see a 6-cylinder. Hell, I'd rather see a NA I6 over a FI I6.
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      11-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Please read the poll result lot of people don`t want to see a 4cyl in this car why BMW want to insist on it?

A 4cyl will sound horrible, won`t be smooth, won't have such a nice flat torque curve, will probably get and higher turbo lag, will probably get long term reliability issues(if it does have 180-190hp/liter) and will probably use more fuel in the real world than a straight 6. For all of thoses reason I find the 4 cyl to be unacceptable in the M2 especially that this car won't sell cheapt. If BMW go ahead with this in the M2 that will be a complete deal breaker for me and for alot of person I would think.
Then buy an M4, just ignore all the E9x owners crying about the loss of their precious V8. I'd rather have an M2 that isn't just an M4Lite.

I'm sure BMW stays up late at night worrying about polls on car forums.
Unlike the brand whores and the posers who make up the majority of buyers of 320's and 328's BMW, a vast majority of the 740 owners of the 1M are enthusiasts and members of this forum. So I think without a doubt that the 450 votes on this poll (84% of whom would prefer an I6 and 54% of whom would only consider a 6 cylinder M2) is a very statistically representative sample of the market.

Maybe BMW should be watching this forum and even if they are not, I'm sure their own market research would have led them to the same conclusion: the M2 should have an I6
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      11-01-2013, 03:33 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Maybe BMW should be watching this forum and even if they are not, I'm sure their own market research would have led them to the same conclusion: the M2 should have an I6
How is that different than an M4? Before you answer, also consider that the majority of this world pays tax based on CO2 and/or engine displacement. So why create two (or three if you consider the M235i) cars with nearly identical identities?

I assume your 740 1M owners is just the US number? Don't forget that BMW is a global company, and that more than double that 740 number was sold to folks outside of this country.

I like the 1M and considered one to replace the wife's 135i, but I'd be curious to know how many folks would have bought one if the F8x was already out? I'd like to see the M2 be something different than just a handicapped M4 for 10% less money. Make it different, even if your supposed 84% avoids it. They can run out and buy an M4, an M235i or any number of existing BMW products.
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      11-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Bravo !!
Couldn't have said it better myself.

BMW would be foolish to ignore the desires of 85% of the potential buyers of this car.
And what if the 84% are offered a car which will not be just lighter , but more dynamic and powerful than a six cylinder?
A car that will live up to and outperform its predecessor which even in death its spirit lives on as mentioned in a review of the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.


M2 is coming out at a very specific time.
BMW will be in full scale CFRP production which will be demonstrated with the all new 7er. So that further use can be applied to M cars in key specific areas. The 7er will use CFRP along with other lightweight metals in the heaviest areas of the chassis , CFRP will also feature on the body panels.

We also have to think about progress models of the forthcoming M3 and M4 which will progress the Carbon Count under CRT or CSL designations.

The next M5 will also be more Radical in the Carbon count more so than the regular 5er. But don't expect AWD. BMW M bosses have stated in the last few days due to rumours that they are not taking weight off to put it back on.

But a four cylinder sounds logical as BMW can also offer an X1M SAV in response to market demand.

Not everyone will be happy , that's the industry and I have been here long enough to know that if you are not happy there is another customer who will be happy.
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      11-01-2013, 05:56 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Bravo !!
Couldn't have said it better myself.

BMW would be foolish to ignore the desires of 85% of the potential buyers of this car.
And what if the 84% are offered a car which will not be just lighter , but more dynamic and powerful than a six cylinder?
A car that will live up to and outperform its predecessor which even in death its spirit lives on as mentioned in a review of the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.


M2 is coming out at a very specific time.
BMW will be in full scale CFRP production which will be demonstrated with the all new 7er. So that further use can be applied to M cars in key specific areas. The 7er will use CFRP along with other lightweight metals in the heaviest areas of the chassis , CFRP will also feature on the body panels.

We also have to think about progress models of the forthcoming M3 and M4 which will progress the Carbon Count under CRT or CSL designations.

The next M5 will also be more Radical in the Carbon count more so than the regular 5er. But don't expect AWD. BMW M bosses have stated in the last few days due to rumours that they are not taking weight off to put it back on.

But a four cylinder sounds logical as BMW can also offer an X1M SAV in response to market demand.

Not everyone will be happy , that's the industry and I have been here long enough to know that if you are not happy there is another customer who will be happy.
16% happy, 84% unhappy. That's logical? Scott, the information and insight that you provide this forum are greatly appreciated. The light weight attributes and dynamics to come sound fantastic. The beauty of the inline 6 is also fantastic and should be combined with the forthcoming developments to create what the majority here consider to be the perfect M2! Please let the Dr. know.
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      11-01-2013, 06:04 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
And what if the 84% are offered a car which will not be just lighter , but more dynamic and powerful than a six cylinder?
A car that will live up to and outperform its predecessor which even in death its spirit lives on as mentioned in a review of the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.


M2 is coming out at a very specific time.
BMW will be in full scale CFRP production which will be demonstrated with the all new 7er. So that further use can be applied to M cars in key specific areas. The 7er will use CFRP along with other lightweight metals in the heaviest areas of the chassis , CFRP will also feature on the body panels.

We also have to think about progress models of the forthcoming M3 and M4 which will progress the Carbon Count under CRT or CSL designations.

The next M5 will also be more Radical in the Carbon count more so than the regular 5er. But don't expect AWD. BMW M bosses have stated in the last few days due to rumours that they are not taking weight off to put it back on.

But a four cylinder sounds logical as BMW can also offer an X1M SAV in response to market demand.

Not everyone will be happy , that's the industry and I have been here long enough to know that if you are not happy there is another customer who will be happy.
I wanna know if the decision is already made or not, if yes why should we discuss about it, they won't change it anymore and if not:
I think the M2 won't get more CFRP parts than the M4, if it would get them and weighs much less, it will be faster or as fast as the M4 as well. The same situation as it would get a 6cyl. and less CFRP parts.

I also think all normal BMW models will get more and more CFRP parts starting with the 7 series, of course the most in the M models, but for the actual generation of the M2 we won't see more CFRP parts than in the upcoming M4.

And the generation after the upcoming series (starting with 7) probably could get a full CFRP body.
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      11-01-2013, 06:25 PM   #273
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It would be one generation too early for the 4cyl. in the entry level M car in my eyes:

-a lot of potential buyers (not only the enthusiasts) want a bigger engine and will not accept a heavily turbocharged 4cyl. at the moment

-at the next generation of BMWs (starting with the upcoming 7 series) we won't see a 6cyl. below the 3 series for sure and even a 3cyl. is considered for the 7 series so the time has come when only mpg, co2 etc. count and what engine produces that is regardless. Most of the young upcoming buyers don't care about the engine anymore even at this time, these numbers, image and design only count.

...whatever, BMW knows exactly what it's doing, what we can see in the next generation 1 series after the F2X, maybe it's really the customers fault if most 1 series owners really don't know and don't care whetever they have a RWD or RWD under their ass. (I can't believe that..)
So maybe BMW know most potential M2 buyers don't care about the engine at this time too... no dogmas right?
The highly appreciated 1M has proven that people want a combination of a small car, big engine (for this type of car and for these days), good chassis, manual transmission (beneath the automatic of course..).

Last edited by jackmcclane; 11-01-2013 at 06:37 PM..
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      11-01-2013, 06:41 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
And what if the 84% are offered a car which will not be just lighter , but more dynamic and powerful than a six cylinder?
A car that will live up to and outperform its predecessor which even in death its spirit lives on as mentioned in a review of the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.


M2 is coming out at a very specific time.
BMW will be in full scale CFRP production which will be demonstrated with the all new 7er. So that further use can be applied to M cars in key specific areas. The 7er will use CFRP along with other lightweight metals in the heaviest areas of the chassis , CFRP will also feature on the body panels.

We also have to think about progress models of the forthcoming M3 and M4 which will progress the Carbon Count under CRT or CSL designations.

The next M5 will also be more Radical in the Carbon count more so than the regular 5er. But don't expect AWD. BMW M bosses have stated in the last few days due to rumours that they are not taking weight off to put it back on.

But a four cylinder sounds logical as BMW can also offer an X1M SAV in response to market demand.

Not everyone will be happy , that's the industry and I have been here long enough to know that if you are not happy there is another customer who will be happy.
Thanks Scott for the info. So let forget the M2 then...
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      11-01-2013, 06:48 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
Thanks Scott for the info. So let forget the M2 then...
+1 ...but I still have hope.
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      11-01-2013, 07:43 PM   #276
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The problem with the statement from Scott is the following;

He addresses the benefit of the lower weight -- great

He assumes that the 4 cylinder will outperform the 6 -- awesome and doable as proven by the CLA45

What he neglects to acknowledge is that given the same HP target, the 4 cylinder will always be more stressed, have more lag, less area under the torque curve and sound much worse.

So unless BMW can come up with technology in said 4 cylinder motor to overcome these downsides, the point moot to 84% of us who would rather trade 100 lbs for the above mentioned benefits of an I6

I remain skeptical and will no longer wait, I will jump into an M235 for now.
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      11-01-2013, 09:04 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The next M5 will also be more Radical in the Carbon count more so than the regular 5er. But don't expect AWD. BMW M bosses have stated in the last few days due to rumours that they are not taking weight off to put it back on.
Danke!
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      11-02-2013, 07:26 AM   #278
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7K I6 or 8K I4? The later one please. Did the 1M get the good S65? Bo, so why should the M2 get the S55?
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      11-02-2013, 07:59 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
7K I6 or 8K I4? The later one please. Did the 1M get the good S65? Bo, so why should the M2 get the S55?
That wouldn't be a high revving I4, only a heavily turbocharged I4 with no high redline.
Nothing is impossible, but a natural aspirated engine or a high revving 4cyl. is not very likely in my eyes. A detuned S55 would be the best we can get, it has high revving characteristics and isn't a heavy engine.

Putting a 4cyl. in the M2 because of the lower weight would be just a cheap excuse for them if they don't want a 6cyl. in the entry level car too.
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      11-02-2013, 08:12 AM   #280
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Buying a car is such a emotional thing, especially for cars with higher prices and more power than you need for normal A to B driving.

I would say every second car on the streets is a I4cyl. engine, I don't want one added with big turbos for a car like this. -not because it is such a unspecial engine, but because of the typical I6cyl. characteristics and because it's pure BMW. The E30 M3 was a complete other story and isn't comparable in my eyes.

BMW is about engines, not only but for a potential buyer of a 50-60k EUR car (I don't know what the 1M has cost in $) is the engine a important factor for sure. And I'm definetly don't buy a M2 with a 4cyl. and as you can see there are a lot other potential buyers which think the same way.

In the future we won't see a 6cyl. in the smaller cars or even in the bigger cars under the top model anymore pretty sure. But right now, BMW has this engine, offers a regular 6cyl. in the smaller cars, the engine is compatibel with co2 etc. restrictions, most of the potential buyers want one, so god damn give us that.

Last edited by jackmcclane; 11-02-2013 at 08:20 AM..
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      11-02-2013, 08:28 AM   #281
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What is the fascination with a high-revving engine?

I do not want a high-revving engine in my DD. Having all the umph in the last 2-3k RPM range makes for a boring car to drive every day. I'm not going to bounce it off the rev limiter on my way to work everyday.

Sure, it sounds cool and gives you that push back in the seat. But I'd rather have an engine with a flat torque curve that "only" goes to 7k instead of an uninspiring engine below 5k that I need to get on to feel the power.

I guess it also depends if this car is going to be your weekend toy or a daily driver.
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      11-02-2013, 08:36 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
What is the fascination with a high-revving engine?

I do not want a high-revving engine in my DD. Having all the umph in the last 2-3k RPM range makes for a boring car to drive every day. I'm not going to bounce it off the rev limiter on my way to work everyday.

Sure, it sounds cool and gives you that push back in the seat. But I'd rather have an engine with a flat torque curve that "only" goes to 7k instead of an uninspiring engine below 5k that I need to get on to feel the power.

I guess it also depends if this car is going to be your weekend toy or a daily driver.
I wanna use it as my daily driver and the S55 engine combines the best from a turbo engine and a high revving natural aspirated. You don't need to rev it high to get the power for normal driving, but for faster driving or on the race track, you can do it.
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      11-02-2013, 08:44 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmcclane View Post
I wanna use it as my daily driver and the S55 engine combines the best from a turbo engine and a high revving natural aspirated. You don't need to rev it high to get the power for normal driving, but for faster driving or on the race track, you can do it.
Exactly. Best of both worlds.
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      11-02-2013, 12:42 PM   #284
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I don't see BMW giving the M2 the M4's engine, just like the Cayman doesn't get the 3.8 engine. An light turbocharged I4 with 8K redline would be much better. If you want smoothness of I6 just the car that already here (in a few months), the M235i.

I prefer 100 kg less with two cylinder less, but same power. M2 CSL with 2.0l I4 making 380 PS and weighing 1250 kg is a dream.
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      11-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I don't see BMW giving the M2 the M4's engine, just like the Cayman doesn't get the 3.8 engine. An light turbocharged I4 with 8K redline would be much better. If you want smoothness of I6 just the car that already here (in a few months), the M235i.

I prefer 100 kg less with two cylinder less, but same power. M2 CSL with 2.0l I4 making 380 PS and weighing 1250 kg is a dream.
I don't think the M2 will get a detuned M4 engine either. No way, no sir. Improved upon N55, sure. Tuners have already shown how easy it is to get more power of the N55. Let ///M work their magic on it with some specialty M-engine parts too. Make it different enough so that it's not even an N55 anymore. I'm sure M can come to a happy medium somewhere between the S55 and N55.

I do find it funny though how a lot of ///M enthusiasts screamed bloody murder at the death of the NA M-car. It will have turbo lag, lower redline, etc. An FI I4 is even further away in driving experience. Sure, it'll be lighter and might have a redline 500 RPM higher than an I6, but that's about it.
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      11-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
BMW has not yet decided on the engine for the M2, so hopefully our member's voices (and votes) will be heard.
Jason, You seem to be as plugged in as anyone. Do you know if the engine choice has been made since you last posted here? If so, will it be a 6 cylinder? BTW, thanks for all your work on this and the entire site!!
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