[vlad1966]

Hello Everyone,

Wanted to see if I can get an honest opinion here (yes I know it's a BMW forum, but I thought I'd ask anyway ).

Currently thinking of trading in my 2017 GTI SE for something with more raw power & something that isn't FWD.

Looking used to keep within my budged & am considering the following 2 vehicles available in my area. Both are CPO:

1 - Black 2018 Nissan 370Z Sport with about 5k miles, $25,900
2 - 2015 M235i xDrive with a bit over 21K miles, $31,995 Melbourne Red, Terra Dakota Leather, 8-speed AT, Cold Weather & Tech & Smoker's & Storage packages, H/K Premium sound, Remove Increase Top Speed, but:

Dealer Invoice shows Fluid Leak From Tranny (see attached).

I'm a little nervous about the BMW reliability, always known them as good looking & performing cars, though not necessarily rock solid reliable.

Always wanted an M series BMW though but I love the Z too.

Decisions, decisions . . .

[XutvJet]

M235 RWD 6mt is the answer you're looking for. If you can swing $32k on an M235x, then you'll save yourself some cash going rwd. Dynamically, it's a better driving and performing car. It's also a bit more reliable as the x drive models can have issues with the transfer cases. Otherwise these cars are quite reliable, probably more so than the 370z which is a good car.

[paposalsa]

I'm bias since I had a 370Z that gave me almost no problems for 9 yrs. However $25K for a 2018 Sport Pkg doesn't sound right. That is more the price of a base 370Z ...

The 370Z has at least 4 models. Base, Sport, Touring and Sport Touring same engine except for the NISMO. The 370Z is way more Mod friendly than the M ...

[Joe240]

Drove my friend’s 09 370Z, 6 speed, and it was a blast. Only had CAI, exhaust, wheels, and lowering springs. Was still a blast to drive. Handled great as well. However, the seating position was too low, but that’s personal preference. Most likely just the belt line of the car that made it feel like that.

The 235/40ix sits low, but the belt line is lower so you don’t feel like it. Plus the power delivery feels stronger and the car launches better because of the Xdrive, not to mention will handle better under power. I feel like Bmw has a better DSC than Nissan, but that’d also be personal preference.

Both are great cars though and can’t go wrong with either. I’d suggest driving them both and then deciding. The zf8 on the xdrive is great, but rowing your gears for some people helps make the driving experience better.

I got a 240ix because the wife doesn’t drive manual very well and prefers autos, plus wanted something better in the snow if the military moved us there. If it weren’t for her, I would’ve 100% got a 6mt. However, making the car faster has more than made the driving experience for me so I’m happy with the zf8.

[tonyec7]

370z is super outdated

[230iZTR]

Here’s the critical question: what do you want to do with the car?

If you’re going to go mod crazy and turn it into a racecar, get the Z. It’s an older platform, but that also brings lots of part support and proven racecar builds that can be easily replicated. They’re a great enthusiasts’ toy that can be an acceptable daily driver if you don’t add too many parts.

If you’re looking to comfortably putt around town most of the time and have real winter to contend with, but also want to enjoy an occasional backroad blast, autoX, or HPDE, then get the baby-M. The big downfall is that AWD is less engaging, it’s got a small parts pool to pick from, and it’ll be an expensive pain in the rear to turn it into a racecar. They’re a great daily driver that can also be an acceptable enthusiasts’ toy if you add a few parts.

[baege]

370z engine sounds like a coffee grinder above 3500 rpm
it is a coarse buzzy engine...no comparison to a silky smooth BMW inline 6
I chose a 350z over an s52 mccoupe back in the day and still regret it..

honestly I would go with a low mileage z4 coupe 3.0si over either of those...

best with the decision

[morphomeman]

Yes, the 235 is a much more up-to-date car than the Z.
The price seems a bit steep, though, for a 2015, even with low mileage.

[Maynard]

z car is the more pure sports-car, but they need mods to survive on track (or often on the street) - probably less reliable overall, but here it is an almost new one vs. a '15 2'er. 235 is much more versatile. I cross shopped a 370, but wanted the 4-season fun factor, haven't regretted it, even with the reduced Hp in the 228 (with a 235, that isn't a factor).

[ScottAndrew]

All threads here end up with how the car is on the track, which isn't my area - I just drive them . The 370 has a lot of appeal as a down-to-earth old-fashioned sports car but certain ownership elements are old-fashioned as well, like the 1996 interior and 18 mpg drink problem. However, I am sure that on the track, the interior and fuel economy are not relevant, and availability of professional motorsport parts at reasonable cost is important, so for pin money like that I'd go for it.

[CP911]

I looked at the 370Z briefly before settling on my M240i. It supposedly suffers from fuel starvation issues due to how the gas tank was designed. I needed this car to perform without any issues on track, so that was a no-go for me. Interior is also pretty bad all around from the appearance to the materials to the support and comfort of the seats. The driving sensation and steering feel weren't bad, and the V6 sounded decent, but it lacks thrust when you compare it to anything turbocharged these days. I grew up a Z-car fanboy, but today the 370Z is waaaay long in the tooth in terms of needing a refreshed design and up-to-date engine technology.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

M235 RWD 6mt is the answer you're looking for. If you can swing $32k on an M235x, then you'll save yourself some cash going rwd. Dynamically, it's a better driving and performing car. It's also a bit more reliable as the x drive models can have issues with the transfer cases. Otherwise these cars are quite reliable, probably more so than the 370z which is a good car.

This.

If I could do it over, I would consider the Automatic, it honestly doesn't look like it gives up much.

[USA-RET]

I love my M240i. But given your situation (buying used) and the two vehicles, I'd opt for the Nissan.

I think the Z's are really nice cars for the money when new and seem to have a pretty good repair record overall. it's a 2018 so you have some factory warranty left too (with only 5K miles).

I think the Z looks very nice too. Rather reminds me of a Porsche in appearance. They seem to perform well too. It's also the less expensive of the two.

Realize, this will not be your last car..so down the road, you can try others as you pocketbook allows.

[Neophyte]

The AT transmission on the g37/370z is one of its worst qualities.

The 370z is a bit more mod friendly, but is limited by its NA engine (you will spend more money for less gains). My G37s is FBO except headers and faster than modded 370z at least the MT versions and I still feel it needs more power.

M235i has better technology in terms of exhaust valve control and sport suspension. Idk if newer 370z models have this option.

Wheel fitment and options are way better on the 370z.

For me, I think the 370z is an awesome car but still needs a turbo engine for me to consider it as better than the m235i.

[XutvJet]

In a prior life I modded, drag raced, and autoxed two VQ-powered cars, a 1996 Maxima and 2003 G35. I'm a bit intrigued that some of you are saying the 370Z is more mod friendly. It takes some serious coin and the addition of drag radials/slicks to get the naturally aspirated 370Zs to post impressive 1/4 mile ETs and MPHs. Being naturally aspirated means that the primary way to make power is to improve high rpm breathing. You can add HP, but you gain very little in TQ. The N55 in the M235 makes good HP and a lot of TQ. HP for HP, the N55 is simply a stronger motor because it has such a large and wide turbo powerband compared to the VQ37HR. Peak power is one thing, but power under the curve is what really matters in acceleration and the N55 simply has more of it.

With the N55, you can easily add a tune or piggyback and gain 50whp and 80wtq. It takes thousands to gain 50whp on a VQ37HR and you'll gain MAYBE 15-20wtq. Add a downpipe to the N55 and you add another 20whp and 20wtq.

In stock form, the M235 and 370Z run similar 1/4 mile time and mphs. With bolt-ons, it's far easier, cheaper, and quieter to go faster and quicker in the M235.

[amw896]

Maybe it's just me but I drove a friends 2012 Z and was not really impressed. Interior quality was about on par with my mazda 3. Rattly, and cheap plastic all over. The ride was super harsh on most roads and sub par to the 235 on twisties. It did feel like it had slightly less body roll though. Power delivery was decent but sounded weird at high rpm. I think the worst part about the car is the manual box, I felt the same way about a g37 IPL version I drove and my previous is250 manual. Japanese manuals are just in general no beuno and always feel out of sync with the engine. Maybe it's due to the low torque on japanese cars but in general I don't like driving their manuals. Also, I know on paper they show similar stats to the 235 but the best quarter mile times my friend recorded was like 13.7 and averaged low 14s with weak trap speeds. IMO, the 235i is better by every metric except stock tire size. For some reason, these Z's come with some large section rear tires. Like they are putting down GTR level power? I don't know...Lastly, I disagree about the z being more mod friendly as it is not easy or cheap to extract additional power from these motors. In comparison, for like 2k, you can add some serious power to the n55s. Once you go stage 2 on these cars, the 370 is hilariously slow.

[Texan2er]

I would have to say that driving a 370z feels like you're in a larger vehicle, whereas driving the 235 you feel like you're in a smaller beast. At least that has been my experience. I personally didn't find enjoyment driving the 370z's that I test drove during my car buying process 1 car ago.

The power you get in the 235 never leaves me feeling like it is lacking, whereas the 370 does leave me wanting a little more.

Mod for mod, it's going to be much cheaper to make your 235 put out bigger numbers.

Interior quality is going to be drastically different, but then again you're cross-shopping a BMW and a Nissan, is to be expected I suppose. The Z is just old now, and very ready for a refresh.

The biggest thing to consider in these cars though, IMHO, is what trans you're going for. Automatic to automatic? Buy the M235i. The ZF8 is the conqueror here. Manual to automatic? That's gonna be a difficult decision if you're more keen on manuals (and your situation is different from my own, sadly). Manual to manual? I'm voting for the M235i again.

Either way, you're getting a fun car. The best daily performer, to me, is the M235i. The slightly better daily autox-er is probably the Z. As many others have mentioned, get a good couple drives in each car while you decide. Each car will perform differently on the roads around you. My personal choice will remain the one that I made for myself... An M235i with a ZF8 auto. Superb daily/road-tripper/track-car.

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by amw896

Maybe it's just me but I drove a friends 2012 Z and was not really impressed. Interior quality was about on par with my mazda 3. Rattly, and cheap plastic all over. The ride was super harsh on most roads and sub par to the 235 on twisties. It did feel like it had slightly less body roll though. Power delivery was decent but sounded weird at high rpm. I think the worst part about the car is the manual box, I felt the same way about a g37 IPL version I drove and my previous is250 manual. Japanese manuals are just in general no beuno and always feel out of sync with the engine. Maybe it's due to the low torque on japanese cars but in general I don't like driving their manuals. Also, I know on paper they show similar stats to the 235 but the best quarter mile times my friend recorded was like 13.7 and averaged low 14s with weak trap speeds. IMO, the 235i is better by every metric except stock tire size. For some reason, these Z's come with some large section rear tires. Like they are putting down GTR level power? I don't know...Lastly, I disagree about the z being more mod friendly as it is not easy or cheap to extract additional power from these motors. In comparison, for like 2k, you can add some serious power to the n55s. Once you go stage 2 on these cars, the 370 is hilariously slow.

It's not that Japanese manuals are no good, it's that Nissan manuals are no good. Honda has produced some of the slickest shifting 6MTs in the world. The S2000 and Civic Si come to mind, as well as the 3G Acura TL. I had a 6MT TL with a Comptech short shifter that had incredible throws.

[amw896]

Originally Posted by B58togo

It's not that Japanese manuals are no good, it's that Nissan manuals are no good. Honda has produced some of the slickest shifting 6MTs in the world. The S2000 and Civic Si come to mind, as well as the 3G Acura TL. I had a 6MT TL with a Comptech short shifter that had incredible throws.

True, I've heard the s2k is one of the best. I drove a few civics and they were pretty good as well but I dont think it's a fair comparison since that is fwd......I was trying to stay within direct linkage transmissions.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by B58togo

It's not that Japanese manuals are no good, it's that Nissan manuals are no good. Honda has produced some of the slickest shifting 6MTs in the world. The S2000 and Civic Si come to mind, as well as the 3G Acura TL. I had a 6MT TL with a Comptech short shifter that had incredible throws.

Yes, and my 2016 WRX had a pretty decent 6-speed. It just depends on the specific brand and model, really.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

In a prior life I modded, drag raced, and autoxed two VQ-powered cars, a 1996 Maxima and 2003 G35. I'm a bit intrigued that some of you are saying the 370Z is more mod friendly. It takes some serious coin and the addition of drag radials/slicks to get the naturally aspirated 370Zs to post impressive 1/4 mile ETs and MPHs. Being naturally aspirated means that the primary way to make power is to improve high rpm breathing. You can add HP, but you gain very little in TQ. The N55 in the M235 makes good HP and a lot of TQ. HP for HP, the N55 is simply a stronger motor because it has such a large and wide turbo powerband compared to the VQ37HR. Peak power is one thing, but power under the curve is what really matters in acceleration and the N55 simply has more of it.

With the N55, you can easily add a tune or piggyback and gain 50whp and 80wtq. It takes thousands to gain 50whp on a VQ37HR and you'll gain MAYBE 15-20wtq. Add a downpipe to the N55 and you add another 20whp and 20wtq.

In stock form, the M235 and 370Z run similar 1/4 mile time and mphs. With bolt-ons, it's far easier, cheaper, and quieter to go faster and quicker in the M235.

I too, am a HUGE VQ (and previously Nissan) Fan. I wanted a VQ powered anything, and when it came time to pull the trigger, I went elsewhere.

That being said - the VQ is a fantastic motor, and the VHR is what the N52 could have been with more displacement. The motors respond well to mods, and 330whp+ isn't unheard of (I think 350whp is some of the highest I've seen on 93oct -370whp on E85)


Edit: found it
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...vhr-build.html




But it's never going to be as flexible as a turbo motor, and the Z is a 2 seater while the M235i is obviously a coupe, which makes it a more livable car.
The Z does have an advantage of having a lot of aftermarket wheel and suspension options that the M235i doesn't have, and also be more competitive in it's racing (AutoX specifically) classes.

I LOVE the Z cars, and the VQ, but I ended up with the M235i and I'm happy about my choice.

[B58togo]

^^

Probably has $10k into that motor/exhaust/tuning to make 370 whp STD. Ouch. Probably sounds good at 8k rpm though.