[Kolyan2k]

I would have to use this thread for LSD review when I end up selling my car

[albertw]

This has been an interesting and informative discussion. It’s convinced me I don’t need an LSD. I can’t use hard acceleration out of corners, so my fun is limited to playing with the traction limit within corners. For that, even the eLSD in Traction Off mode hooks up the rear too much.

The problem for me is the speed limit on nearby good roads is 80 km/hr (divide by 1.6 to get mph), and 40 over that gets your car impounded for a week, $2000 in fines and fees and a long-term substantial increase in your insurance rates. So I have a personal absolute speed limit of 120 on those roads.

Since the traction limit on my all-season Pirelli runflats is typically twice the corner advisory speed, corners labelled at 60 can’t take any acceleration at all. If I had stickier tires I’d have to ignore those corners and just cruise through them. For corners labelled 50 just a couple seconds of hard acceleration puts me over 120. Corners labelled 40 can handle some hard acceleration from my 80 - 90 apex speeds, but those are pretty rare. So I would get very little benefit from an LSD. I prefer the easy, reliable way I can step out the rear in Sport+. It lets me play with whatever mode I want through the corner - oversteer, understeer or neutral - depending on what I do with the throttle and steering.

(I bought the 6 cylinder for passing slow cars in the twisties. If not for that, the 4 cylinder would have been adequate.)

[wdc330i]

I find the LSD useful even under moderate acceleration through corners--really any situation where there are steering inputs and wheels turning.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

After over 2 years of ownership, I added the MPerformance LSD on Monday.

Did you exchange your original diff for a complete new diff - i.e., take one pumpkin out and put in a new one with a limited-slip unit inside of it?

[Poochie]

If you guys don't want to spend $3,000 on an LSD, I get it but the fact is that this car needs it; the traction control bogs down the power corners/turns on the standard diff..

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by albertw

This has been an interesting and informative discussion. It’s convinced me I don’t need an LSD. I can’t use hard acceleration out of corners, so my fun is limited to playing with the traction limit within corners. For that, even the eLSD in Traction Off mode hooks up the rear too much.

The problem for me is the speed limit on nearby good roads is 80 km/hr (divide by 1.6 to get mph), and 40 over that gets your car impounded for a week, $2000 in fines and fees and a long-term substantial increase in your insurance rates. So I have a personal absolute speed limit of 120 on those roads.

Since the traction limit on my all-season Pirelli runflats is typically twice the corner advisory speed, corners labelled at 60 can’t take any acceleration at all. If I had stickier tires I’d have to ignore those corners and just cruise through them. For corners labelled 50 just a couple seconds of hard acceleration puts me over 120. Corners labelled 40 can handle some hard acceleration from my 80 - 90 apex speeds, but those are pretty rare. So I would get very little benefit from an LSD. I prefer the easy, reliable way I can step out the rear in Sport+. It lets me play with whatever mode I want through the corner - oversteer, understeer or neutral - depending on what I do with the throttle and steering.

(I bought the 6 cylinder for passing slow cars in the twisties. If not for that, the 4 cylinder would have been adequate.)

You can feel and use the LSD during normal and legal speed driving, even in a 20mph 90 degree turn with 30-50% throttle.. What's cool is that you really can feel the LSD working. It's quite mechanical feeling and very obvious and I mean that in a good way.

If you find that the eLSD hooks up the rear too much on all season rubber, then the LSD probably isn't for you because you're not driving very hard at all. With just the eLSD, stock power, and much sticker MPSS tires, I could easily provoke the rear into over-steer in 1st, 2nd, and usually 3rd, whether on throttle or off. With the eLSD only, the oversteer feels almost like hitting wet pavement in that it could slide wide and quickly. With the LSD, the slide isn't remotely as aggressive unless you're really hammering the throttle and in that instance, you've still got a lot of control and grip. I'm not joking when I say it makes the car drive quite differently.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Did you exchange your original diff for a complete new diff - i.e., take one pumpkin out and put in a new one with a limited-slip unit inside of it?

They give you the old diff back. There's no exchange. I'll probably try and sell mine locally for whatever someone is willing to give me. I have no intention on reinstalling it when I sell the car.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

If you find that the eLSD hooks up the rear too much on all season rubber, then the LSD probably isn't for you because you're not driving very hard at all. With just the eLSD, stock power, and much sticker MPSS tires, I could easily provoke the rear into over-steer in 1st, 2nd, and usually 3rd, whether on throttle or off. With the eLSD only, the oversteer feels almost like hitting wet pavement in that it could slide wide and quickly. With the LSD, the slide isn't remotely as aggressive unless you're really hammering the throttle and in that instance, you've still got a lot of control and grip. I'm not joking when I say it makes the car drive quite differently.

My point was somewhat different. If you're cornering fast enough that you are near or at the limit of traction, it takes very little power to provoke oversteer. I find it happens more reliably and with better control in Sport + than in Traction Off. Of course, if you're cornering so slowly that it takes a lot of power to provoke oversteer, the situation may well be different. i wouldn't know about that.

[VPB74]

Just got mine installed today. Can't wait to try it out this weekend.

[Neophyte]

I have a traction problem that won't allow me to enjoy the car. Got FBO with BM3, and I cannot go WOT on 1st, 2rd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th without the rear going sideways. It's bad enough that I have to step off to gas if not I'll end up in another lane. It's no fun that I can't really accelerate how I want. Tires are almost 80% on rear MPSS. Will an LSD fix this issue?

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

It’s probably old news for many, but I wanted to share my experience with the MPerformance LSD. After over 2 years of ownership, I added the MPerformance LSD on Monday. I’m the type that likes to learn a car’s characteristics fully before adding mods as it really helps me understand pro/cons of the mod. Admittedly, I’ve wasted a ton of money over the past 20 years on overhyped, ill-fitting, and compromising mods that do more harm than good and I’m not one to hold back and remove a mod immediately if it’s crap.

I'm still breaking it in the LSD, but HOLY HELL, what a difference. It feels like I've added a ton more traction on the back axle. It feels like the OEM MPSS tires are substantially stickier out back. It's quite astonishing the difference, even in the most normal of driving. On a sweeping turn, transitioning from off throttle to moderate throttle instantly results in the car/steering wheel turning harder and harder into the turn. I’ve had other cars with lower quality LSDs, but I've never felt an LSD behave quite like this. The car just feels a ton more stable. It's awesome.

To break in the LSD, the dealer and other sources said to go out to a parking lot and do about 20 idle rolling, near steering wheel lock Figure 8s followed by 20 idle rolling near steering wheel lock circles in each direction. BMW says to drive moderately for the first 500 miles and to avoid hard shifting or situations that could cause axle tramp.

My dealer price matched the best online offer I found for $1,950. It was 3.5 hours to install which is the BMW book time as confirmed by internet searches for what others said labor was at BMW. The tech installing the diff was adamant that he check the fluid level in the diff before install because it had been his experience that some BMW diffs are underfilled from the factory and it’s a pain to check the level and add fluid after the diff is installed. He found the diff slightly underfilled and added about ¾ pint of BMW LSD-spec fluid. All in, it was about $2,700 for the LSD, labor, fluid, and tax. Yeah, crazy expensive.

$3,240 for me - installed at the port before delivery. You saved money!

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Neophyte

I have a traction problem that won't allow me to enjoy the car. Got FBO with BM3, and I cannot go WOT on 1st, 2rd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th without the rear going sideways. It's bad enough that I have to step off to gas if not I'll end up in another lane. It's no fun that I can't really accelerate how I want. Tires are almost 80% on rear MPSS. Will an LSD fix this issue?

Yes it will help on hook up, immensely.

[amw896]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Yes it will help on hook up, immensely.

I cant compare directly as mine already had the lsd installed when I bought the car but with bm3 i still have traction issues in 1-3. I will say that it's very manageable though with some throttle control. I also upgraded the rear tires to pilot super sport 255s from the original 245 rfts which I thought would help more than it did. I will go for 265s next time.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Neophyte

I have a traction problem that won't allow me to enjoy the car. Got FBO with BM3, and I cannot go WOT on 1st, 2rd, 3rd and sometimes even 4th without the rear going sideways. It's bad enough that I have to step off to gas if not I'll end up in another lane. It's no fun that I can't really accelerate how I want. Tires are almost 80% on rear MPSS. Will an LSD fix this issue?

Yes, the LSD will feel like you've added 500lbs+ more weight over the back axle. With that said, you will still get wheel spin, but it will be manageable. I was running the Dinantronics Sport for 6 months. I like the power for the most part, but even in the Sport setting, my car had major traction issues in 1st and in 2nd from a rolling punch. I actually got fed up with it because, like you, I couldn't enjoy the power and knew that my car was actually slower because I couldn't put the power down in 1st and 2nd. The primary issue with adding more power boost to these cars is that torque comes on pretty hard in the lower rpms compared to stock and overwhelms tires. You can feel in the stock tuning just how much effort BMW has gone to to make the power more usable at the onset of boost in the lower gears.

I no longer run the Dinantronics Sport and have been happier with how much more tractable and linear the power is. Yes, my car isn't quite as fast, but I can use all the power on the street now. It still spins, but not nearly has much. I'm now evaluating whether to go with the JB4 or a flash tune and do the boost by gear setup where I don't want any extra boost in 1st or 2nd. You may want to try that if you haven't already. For the meantime, I plan to add a catted downpipe to hold me over for a bit as the power gains are more linear and should give the N55 some more breathing potential without shocking the rear tires.

[stlb5]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yes, the LSD will feel like you've added 500lbs+ more weight over the back axle. With that said, you will still get wheel spin, but it will be manageable. I was running the Dinantronics Sport for 6 months. I like the power for the most part, but even in the Sport setting, my car had major traction issues in 1st and in 2nd from a rolling punch. I actually got fed up with it because, like you, I couldn't enjoy the power and knew that my car was actually slower because I couldn't put the power down in 1st and 2nd. The primary issue with adding more power boost to these cars is that torque comes on pretty hard in the lower rpms compared to stock and overwhelms tires. You can feel in the stock tuning just how much effort BMW has gone to to make the power more usable at the onset of boost in the lower gears.

I no longer run the Dinantronics Sport and have been happier with how much more tractable and linear the power is. Yes, my car isn't quite as fast, but I can use all the power on the street now. It still spins, but not nearly has much. I'm now evaluating whether to go with the JB4 or a flash tune and do the boost by gear setup where I don't want any extra boost in 1st or 2nd. You may want to try that if you haven't already. For the meantime, I plan to add a catted downpipe to hold me over for a bit as the power gains are more linear and should give the N55 some more breathing potential without shocking the rear tires.

Check out BM3. You can adjust boost in each gear for this exact reason.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1514359

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by stlb5

Check out BM3. You can adjust boost in each gear for this exact reason.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1514359

I'm going BM3 next year, wasn't aware they offered this.. Thx.

[XutvJet]

Update:

About two months ago I installed a set of 245/35R18 square Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires to replace my fairly worn and hardened Michelin Pilot Super Sports. The 4S tires are now fully broken in and the weather is warm.

Holy hell the traction at all four corners and under heavy throttle. I don't know if my old MPSS tires were just really hardened, but I'm now having to relearn the limits of the car. Last year with the MPSS tires and in warm/hot weather, I could still easily provoke oversteer around slow turns and usually couldn't hammer it in 1st without a lot of spin. That is not the case now. The tires stick really hard and barely spin in most 1st gear situations. I can really feel the LSD literally snapping to life under heavy load and in a turn. It feels reassuring. With the added grip up front with the 245s and the added traction of the LSD, I can feel the stability nannies dumbing the throttle a bit when I hit a turn hard and I'm trying to go full tilt out of the turn. It's not annoying like in Sport, but it's something I had never felt prior because before, the front end would just wash out in understeer before much Sport+ nanny intervention. Now it doesn't. It's pretty neutral.

[Dylan86]

^^ The PS4S's are really good. Way less noise when at their limit, but enough to let you know what's happening. Even before full break in I could tell they were a decent step above the already "pretty good" PSS.

I only wish every owner/member had a chance to try an LSD equipped car, before taking a ton of depreciation to trade in for something "better". It's pretty amazing how this mod, (which is probably the least respected on the platform, today) could be the game changing piece to having the driving experience you always wanted. These cars in RWD sans LSD are super loose, and not all that inspiring with confidence at the limit. The LSD alone tightens up the entire car, gives that planted feel, launching grip 0-60, and improves turn-in. But instead, most people just trade the car in for an M2 to fix the problem, at an increased purchase cost + the depreciation hit from the current. I personally couldn't do it knowing how close the gap is between these cars, to me it's simply not worth it. I'm also good with being the non-M car guy, at a BMW meet, I have nothing to prove to anyone lol.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

^^ The PS4S's are really good. Way less noise when at their limit, but enough to let you know what's happening. Even before full break in I could tell they were a decent step above the already "pretty good" PSS.

I only wish every owner/member had a chance to try an LSD equipped car, before taking a ton of depreciation to trade in for something "better". It's pretty amazing how this mod, (which is probably the least respected on the platform, today) could be the game changing piece to having the driving experience you always wanted. These cars in RWD sans LSD are super loose, and not all that inspiring with confidence at the limit. The LSD alone tightens up the entire car, gives that planted feel, launching grip 0-60, and improves turn-in. But instead, most people just trade the car in for an M2 to fix the problem, at an increased purchase cost + the depreciation hit from the current. I personally couldn't do it knowing how close the gap is between these cars, to me it's simply not worth it. I'm also good with being the non-M car guy, at a BMW meet, I have nothing to prove to anyone lol.

Totally agree and I was in the camp that thought the electronic ABS managed "eLSD" was pretty good. I had an LSD in my 94 Z28 and 03 G35, but they were junk compared to how the LSD operates in my M235. It's apples to oranges. It's staggering the difference assuming you're a driver that's comfortable with driving harder than most. It really does change the car, even in normal driving. It's really nice to be able to punch it hard from 1st without much risk of the tires going up in smoke. It feels a lot like my old WRX now in terms of being able to hammer it in the lower gears. Turn-in is nuts too. It makes the car turn in harder under power and is something you really feel. It can be an odd sensation if you're not used to it.

The only reason I'd trade up to something like an M2 is for the looks and suspension. Believe me, it is hard to resist that urge now that the 2016-2018 M2 used prices are plummeting.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The only reason I'd trade up to something like an M2 is for the looks and suspension. Believe me, it is hard to resist that urge now that the 2016-2018 M2 used prices are plummeting.

Yea a CPO stipper M2 N55 would probably be "the car" to trade up to, if you haven't gone as far as someone like me, for mods lol. Everything aside form looks has been addressed, and I happen to fancy the F22's subtle timeless looks

I still spent less than a new M2, to boot. I got a lot of good value in buying 1 year old CPO (full warranty 5 years), at an almost 30% discount. It got better when iND parted their shop car, and picked up KW clubsport 3-ways for over 50% off (only fit RWD/pre '16 cars), and the Brembo 6/4 piston GT kit, again at well over 50% of the cost, new. Those two mods alone transformed the cars handling and stopping ability, and the rest are simply mods to accommodate the larger changes to the chassis. This car is now far more capable on track than an M2, but most wouldn't go as far because MSRP to replicate what I did would be well over the cost of the M2.

- If you do sell your car, and can't find a buyer who appreciates the added LSD, you'll have buyers instantly on the pre-owned market. Chances are you'll get at least 60-70% back upon resale, simply because it's a non-wear item, and in very high demand. The demand will grow as these cars become cheaper to obtain as well.

[babaikram]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Totally agree and I was in the camp that thought the electronic ABS managed "eLSD" was pretty good. I had an LSD in my 94 Z28 and 03 G35, but they were junk compared to how the LSD operates in my M235. It's apples to oranges. It's staggering the difference assuming you're a driver that's comfortable with driving harder than most. It really does change the car, even in normal driving. It's really nice to be able to punch it hard from 1st without much risk of the tires going up in smoke. It feels a lot like my old WRX now in terms of being able to hammer it in the lower gears. Turn-in is nuts too. It makes the car turn in harder under power and is something you really feel. It can be an odd sensation if you're not used to it.

The only reason I'd trade up to something like an M2 is for the looks and suspension. Believe me, it is hard to resist that urge now that the 2016-2018 M2 used prices are plummeting.

The same reason why some are holding out on installing LSD. Because they know deep down they would change to M cars anyway

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by babaikram

The same reason why some are holding out on installing LSD. Because they know deep down they would change to M cars anyway

Deep down, like, without an M badge they will never feel "whole" or "content"? or deep down because they couldn't afford it, and later will be able to? lol

These cars are not priced very different, new. One should have went with the M2 if they any doubt that the F22 would disappoint. Many want a DD that can be soft, and hard, the M2 can't offer that (the M4 can, but more $$)

But if the LSD would make you happy enough, why would one spend a fortune to upgrade the badge? To me, it seems like people just want the "M" title.. I'm way past that part of my life, now. The best feeling is going to a BMW or performance track event day, with an underdog chassis (like the F22), and producing better lap times with less power and no "M" badge. It's surprising how many owners of much more desirable cars walk up to me and ask more about the car. This was well before I did any major mods, just basic springs/tires/pads&fluid (had an LSD, though).

Gotta do what you really want, at the end of the day it's your hard earned dollars at work to please